Why no Falcon re release

[Hudson 57]

I know that this has been discussed to death already, was just wondering if there's any expert opinions out there?

Are the weak spots on the Falcon too numerous to warrant a re run?

Are Tamiya being Tamiya and holding back a few trump cards - along with Porsche 959, Toyota Monster Racer etc??

Is it inevitable that we'll get these at some point or are there legitimate, plausible reasons for these conspicuous absentees?

[ADRay1000 443]

not to downplay the “coolness” factor of the Falcon, bc it is a cool model, but maybe they haven’t (or won’t) bring it back because maybe it just wasn’t as popular (read: units sold) as others from that era. 
 

[GTodd 1562]

Absolutely zero reason. It was a very popular model for them, it was a favorite of club racers too, as well as the fox before the rc10, Ultimas, and JRX2 took over.

I'm deeply disappointed in Tamiya at this point. They have a catalog of pre 100 cars that theybtill haven't rere'd that would make us happy, and would be a success for them.  

Tamiya has licensed numerous Porsches , so no reason not to do 959 or celica. They did the Super astute, let's get the OG, and why no falcon or Kingcab? 

The rere is an established part of the rc genre now, one which they started.  Kyosho, AE, Schumacher, and now Yokomo are just killing it and Tamiya just keeps making TFs and Avantes. SMH.

[Saito2 7302]

I don't think there are any "expert" opinions out there as internal workings/decisions of Tamiya is pretty much a mystery. Despite claims in the past, nobody (oft times not even dealers) had any insight into their plans or decision making processes. That said, we are left to speculation as enthusiast. People's experience can be very different. Unlike Todd, my experience was the Falcon (despite being a decent, good-looking buggy from Tamiya), was never overly popular.

It may be down to timing. Many of the memorable Tamiya buggies were either cheap, basic durable offerings that got people into the hobby (Grasshopper, Hornet) or came out before the RC10. Tamiya had a bit of a head start, filling up the market with numerous buggies relatively early. Perhaps by the time the Falcon hit the shelves, there were just more offerings from other manufacturers competing for folks' money. With its reduced parts count, lower price and ease of assembly, the 2wd buggy market was a popular one. Kyosho had the Pegasus, Icarus, Cosmo, Raider, and Ultima series, Associated the RC10, Marui the Hunter and Galaxy, Ishipla's Monster, Minicraft's Lazer, World Engine's Rockbuster, Academy's Roadrunner, Mugen's Manx and on and on. That's by no means a comprehensive list, just what came to my mind in the moment - a lot of shelf competition. It doesn't even count all the internal competition form fellow Tamiya buggies. Granted they aren't all comparable but unless you're specifically hunting a race car like the RC10 or Ultima, the average person or parent walking into a hobby shop was fairly blitzed by the possible choices vs 3 years earlier when you probably walked out with a Frog.

 Perhaps one can surmise from the above that perhaps sale numbers from the Falcon were down, not because it was a poor buggy, but because it got lost in the fray. We also don't know its popularity in Japan which appears to have played a part in possible re-release decision making. I question the popularity of the Fire Dragon outside of Japan for example but we got a re-release twice now. When the re-release train kicked off many years ago, unless you had a Falcon as a kid, not many here were loudly clamoring for one. It has only been through time as more and more buggies got released, the the absence of the Falcon has become more and more pronounced.

Maybe the sales numbers in the past and any potential required upgrade issues combined mean Tamiya has not yet seen fit to invest the money and effort. Granted, their track-record of re-release improvements has been questionable at times so that alone might not be reason enough, but combined with poor original sales numbers (again we can only guess at that) might make it a risky venture. The other car's in the family like the Striker and Sonic Fighter aren't particularly sought after and use unique chassis tubs so spreading the cost out over several models (like the Hornet and Grasshopper or Brat and Frog sharing parts) might not be as attractive from a production standpoint. Beside designing and manufacturing improvements, they also have to be added into the manual. In the end everything adds up and potentially cuts into the bottom line.

The same logic can be applies to any other vehicle we, as Tamiya fans, have been after, like the 959 or King Cab/Monster Racer. With King Cab, you have a trickier, blow-molded polycarbonate body to consider as well as transmission issues shared with the Monster Racer. Its easy for us on the outside the say "just throw a Super Astute gearbox in it!" but what do we really know? How many of us are engineers that specifically design and test RC cars for a living? Would the finer pitch gears hold up when unleashed to the general public? That kind of stuff requires time and repeated testing (you know, what they somehow skipped on the Juggernaut 1 release) not just some offhanded "it worked for me when I did it in my garage last year."

Honestly, I'd love to see the Falcon come back. Its one of Tamiya's classic animal-themed buggies that, being largely plastic, should be reasonable to re-release, but again, what do we truly know? Tamiya has brought us back over 35 classics. Despite our emotional yearning (and I get that), the truth is they don't "owe" us anything whether that disappoints us or not. As for Tamiya recycling their re-releases, I'd rather see that than a once-and-done panic (my opinion, YMMV). It gives more people a chance at getting something they wanted and couldn't at a particular time for whatever reason.

[BuggyDad 5385]

As a childhood Falcon owner, and recent creator of fake Falcon modern runner, I'd certainly buy a rere if they did one. 

It does also feel to me like it's lost a little in between the Frog, GH, Hornet and Fox being more real classic Tamiya icons and then the later Astute-based series being (presumably, I don't know them really) just far better driving cars, plus the Falcon having some design weak points that are perhaps a bit more serious than those of any of the other models I just mentioned.

Those design weak points would be easy to solve with small design changes but I think they'd be more noticeable design changes than Tamiya have wanted to apply to rereleases generally.

The dog bones weren't officially solved with hop ups back in the day (to my knowledge) and a relatively short trailing arm is inevitably going to create a lot of drive shaft length change through the travel. So that requires quite visibly obvious changes away from the original to solve, I suspect. Not really in keeping with Tamiya's rere ethos. Although I'm sure some CVDs and the right diff cups would do it. The front arms, tower and bulkbead to tub fixing would all be solveable with designs I'd have thought are fairly inconspicuous but they might still be too obvious for Tamiya's rere way. Then again, are they so weak they need solving to rerelease? One solution might just be better plastics but that's not really something they seem to do in rereleases.

I'm a little surprised to read that it had a decent run with club racers back in the day. I had a assumed it was something of a step down from anything they'd have run. But it's nice to read that - piqued my interest a little more. 

[Pizza Frog 689]

My theory is that it will be rereleased just after I give up waiting and resort to buying a used one.   

[Rinskie 860]

I'd buy one tomorrow if I could providing they change the outdrives so I can use a pair of universals. I've always loved the Falcon. A buddy of mine had one when I was driving an Icarus. Both cars handled very similarly and was a blast to chase each other around with. 

[OldSchoolRC1 1072]

12 hours ago, Rinskie said:

I'd buy one tomorrow if I could providing they change the outdrives so I can use a pair of universals.

I either used the D shaped outputs common now to many models, or I swapped the internals over to Stadium Blitzer gears and used the splines, I don't remember which but I run standard metal outputs and dogbones on mine. Can just barely see the shine behind the motor. 

[Pablo68 1095]

I think Saito was probably closest to hitting the nail on the head. Tamiya are a Japanese company. They just don't have the same kind of relations to their public that say an American company would. I can't think of too many times they've ever reacted to customer input and I think it was only when something went catastrophically wrong with a model in large numbers.

I like the Falcon and would even buy one if it were rere'd, but the front end is weak and the best plastics/intentions in the world wouldn't change that. It would need some kind of re-design. I kinda think they'd just use the Bear Hawk chassis or a derivation of the Blitzer chassis. It would be cool, but not the original.

Having said all of that, it would be nice if they started making spares for the chassis at least.

[BuggyDad 5385]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolRC1 said:

I either used the D shaped outputs common now to many models, or I swapped the internals over to Stadium Blitzer gears and used the splines, I don't remember which but I run standard metal outputs and dogbones on mine. Can just barely see the shine behind the motor. 

Ooh. What's that body? 

[markbt73 5679]

You know what's funny about the Falcon? I've had two: one back in '87 after my brother abandoned it, and one maybe 15 years ago that I got from the consignment shelf at my LHS. Both were among the most reliable and good-running RC cars I've ever had. I always liked the tall tub sides and tight-fitting body that kept dirt out better than most cars.  And it handles really well, especially for an all-plastic entry-level car.

Neither of mine had the dogbone issues; my dad figured out while building the first one that you had to limit the travel of the rear shocks to keep the arms from over-extending. A simple 10mm piece of surgical tubing did the trick. So when I got the second one years later, I just rebuilt the shocks with 10mm limiters, and never had a single issue with it either.

As for the front end breaking, my brother and I both drove the wheels off the first one and never had a problem. The second one had cracks in the eyes at the top of the front shock towers, but in those days you could still find parts trees without much trouble on eBay, so I replaced the shock towers, and that was that. I'm not sure what others were doing to break the whole front end off, but it must have been a lot of hard hits over a long period of time to do that kind of damage.

I'd be sorely tempted by a re-re. It's a good car. And honestly I have no idea why they haven't done it yet.

[Juggular 5080]

They broke the mold.  

Okay, I don't know if that's true.  But Tamiya released so many re-res, it's strange that they didn't release the Falcon.  How many versions of CC-01 did we have?  50? 60?  I didn't like the look of the Falcon back then. 

One day, the copper price was really expensive (or any other metal that's used in mold making). They had a brand new product to be produced, like CC-01.  Tamiya decided "instead of buying, let's just melt one of the least popular molds and the oldest & the biggest. We've got hundreds of those."  This was before the idea of re-release.  So the Falcon and Willies M38 got sacrificed.  (Wild Willy 1's chassis is a deep tub, and the tire mold must have been pretty big too. In the 90s, WW1 was seen as a clunky junk. Sort of like how the real Jeep--that people now would pay good money for, was used as tractors back in the 50s and 60s).

   

So that's my fictional (i.e. fake) explanation as to why there is no Falcon.  (If it gets re-released tomorrow, don't blame me not selling your vintage Falcon, because I made it up the reason!) 

 

[Hudson 57]

Personally I’d love to see the Falcon back- but with a few ‘tweaks’. Firstly, fix all the weak spots (hopefully without impacting the aesthetics). Secondly, bigger wheels!!, I think it’s a statement of fact that the Falcon looks better with 2.2 wheels. I’m convinced it was a Tamiya marketing ploy back in the day to make everyone upgrade/pay up to the Wild One wheels. Also, slightly widen the stance at the front.

I know that Tamiya have stayed away from tweaking their re re’s, no doubt for convenience and for fear of losing the essence of the originals, but in this instance I reckon it’d work well. It would also help to differentiate original to re re.

[BuggyDad 5385]

2 hours ago, Hudson said:

Personally I’d love to see the Falcon back- but with a few ‘tweaks’. Firstly, fix all the weak spots (hopefully without impacting the aesthetics). Secondly, bigger wheels!!, I think it’s a statement of fact that the Falcon looks better with 2.2 wheels. I’m convinced it was a Tamiya marketing ploy back in the day to make everyone upgrade/pay up to the Wild One wheels. Also, slightly widen the stance at the front.

I know that Tamiya have stayed away from tweaking their re re’s, no doubt for convenience and for fear of losing the essence of the originals, but in this instance I reckon it’d work well. It would also help to differentiate original to re re.

Can't resist dropping this in here

😉

[Hudson 57]

Very nice. Looks like you shortened the suspension too? The things I’ve fiddled around with over the years on the Falcon are: Wheels, shock length and adding in extra snap pin fixings for the body on the sides at the back, to kind of hold it down and in and reduce the width. It’s fun trying to find ways to ‘improve’ the look. I do also love just going total stock box art. 

[BuggyDad 5385]

10 minutes ago, Hudson said:

Very nice. Looks like you shortened the suspension too? The things I’ve fiddled around with over the years on the Falcon are: Wheels, shock length and adding in extra snap pin fixings for the body on the sides at the back, to kind of hold it down and in and reduce the width. It’s fun trying to find ways to ‘improve’ the look. I do also love just going total stock box art. 

Not exactly. It's not an orig Falcon. It's a Blitzer Beetle chassis with various mods and a Falcon body. The BB front suspension is low anyway to make up for the big wheels - in fact I've modded to increase its down travel from BB stock although you can't see that at rest. 

So really I'm derailing the thread here. As you were! 😉

[moffman 5928]

The original Falcon appeared as I was having to scale back my rc hobby commitments because of new house/family so from that moment on until around 2005 a lot of rc’s passed me by (still had my magazine subscription) so I don’t know much about the falcon other than what I read and people who have them on this forum about the problems with weak points on the chassis and the likes! with that in mind even tamiya wouldn’t release a buggy with problems of that nature……..or would they?? (monster beetle, frog, blackfoot) same issues with the gearbox like the originals and in my and quite a few other monster beetles actually created a new problem with the vibrations with the new uj’s so with that in mind it does beg the question why tamiya hasn’t re-released what seems to be a cheap yet popular buggy? I do think it will turn up it’s just a matter of time for sure! Tamiya have been very lazy over the last few years with their rc and other manufacturers are way ahead in the classic rc’s which is a real shame!

[Saito2 7302]

Just out of curiously (sorry if I asked this in the past), how weak was the Falcon chassis anyway? The same tub was used by the Bearhawk and Blitzer family and I don't recall the front ends of those vehicle breaking off and flying into the stratosphere (possible exaggeration ). If anything, they are seen as fairly robust. I do recall Strikers and Sonic Fighters having vulnerable lower tubs but those are different chassis despite being in the Falcon family overall.

[ADRay1000 443]

they share the same tub, but have different front ends

[BuggyDad 5385]

3 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Just out of curiously (sorry if I asked this in the past), how weak was the Falcon chassis anyway? The same tub was used by the Bearhawk and Blitzer family and I don't recall the front ends of those vehicle breaking off and flying into the stratosphere (possible exaggeration ). If anything, they are seen as fairly robust. I do recall Strikers and Sonic Fighters having vulnerable lower tubs but those are different chassis despite being in the Falcon family overall.

I had a Falcon and now have a Blitzer that looks like a Falcon. The Falcon was when I was a kid though. My recollection of it was that the tub broke where the front end is screwed to it, more than once. I really saw it as a weak point back then. There are four screws, top and bottom, that link the front to the tub. Top and bottom are in line. I drilled through for a long screw and nut each side with my Falcon and have done same with my modern one, which improved strength a fair bit. However I suspect the Blitzer front now butts up to the tub top to bottom where the Falcon leant more heavily on its screws, or something similar, because as you point out I don't really see it as a serious weak point on the Blitzer chassis, and they use the same tub. 

I don't have a Falcon to compare but certainly, they changed something in the front for the Blitzers/BH that improves the situation where it meets the tub.

Regardless, though, I will certainly drill through any Falcon or Blitzer tub I get just the same. I see no downside and it's got to be much stronger this way. 

As an aside, I don't recall breaking the front arms or tower on my orig Falcon, which are commonly regarded as weak points, although I did lose rear dogbones and have some breakage in that area I think. 

So overall I think I am now reaching the conclusion that while the Falcon had its weak points (and I've been a bit dismissive here in the past) they're really very surmountable and it was probably not overall more breakable than other tamiya buggies of its era. 

I think if a rerelease came out, one of the first things we'd all be doing is to identify a good modern CVD (or parts mishmash) that fits, which is a thing we now do with most of them anyway. Maybe with some shims and/or a little travel restriction I think the rear would work well enough. I think it'd look cool with Frog shaft boots too. 

And yeah, if they do rerelease it I will most certainly buy one. 

Edit: actually, I've done something else to support the front on my BB-based Falcon, which is to brace the front end back into the mid chassis with a 3d print, so to be fair I can't really comment from experience as to whether the BB solves this weak point as stock, but certainly there are ways to solve it and they're pretty easy to achieve and don't involve major surgery.

[Wheel_Nut 365]

IMO, Tamiya should have used ‘The Striker’ semi-trailing arms on the rear of the Falcon.   Although the drive shaft is the same, there is less chance of the drive shaft falling out and improved geometry as well.

I don’t think Tamiya will produce any more Falcon chassis.  Apart from the weakness in the design, they probably reworked the original tooling to create the Bear Hawk and Blitzer series.

[kontemax 1743]

My interpretation of the Falcon.
Not finished yet.
It is missing the raised rear wing, the pilot, the headlights and a few other details here and there.

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=118563&id=24

I believe the Falcon will not be re-released due to its fragility.
It needs to be strengthened. This means changing some parts of the sprue and costs a lot.

Max

[F-150 540]

Lol The falcon has fond memories for me. 

I raced a lot of them with my kyosho Raider and used to smoke the falcons😂.  

However I really wanted one....as an 11 year old back then, those yellow shocks really attracted me... It's a neat Tamiya car, really cool, but didn't handle like my raider....