DF-03 vs TT-02B. Which would you choose?

[jsven008]

The topic recently came up which is a better Tamiya RC car, the TT-02B (ex. Plasma Edge II) or DF-03 (ex. Dark Impact)?

From a design perspective the DF-03 is an upgrade in almost every possible way and it includes a number of hop-ups too boot.

DF-03 Advantages and Cost of Hop-ups:

1) DF-03 has full ball bearings (~$20 to buy full bearings for TT-02B)

2) DF-03 has aluminum prop shaft (~$10 to buy for TT-02B)

3) DF-03 has turnbuckle set (~$20 to buy for TT-02B)

4) DF-03 has metal dog-bones (~$10 for cheap aluminum TT-02B dog-bones)

5) DF-03 uses more durable plastics including Polycarbonate (PC), Nylon Polyamide (PA), and Glass fiber reinforced Polyamide (PA-GF) ($priceless). To get the TT-02B in the ballpark for durability, you'll need reinforced plastic front and rear shock towers and aluminum rear hubs (~$45).

6) DF-03 has more durable gears (~$30 to buy DF-02 metal gears for TT-02B)

Not to mention the DF-03 has front and rear ball differentials and an optional slipper clutch. Doing some quick math, you would need at least $135 worth of upgrades just to rival the DF-03 in specs. 

TT-02B Advantages and Cost of Hop-ups:

1) Stronger one piece chassis. (~$30 to buy aluminum gearbox lower mount for DF-03).

 

Total Cost (Cars with Similar Specs/Hop-ups)

DF-03 Total Cost:

$155 USD for kit on Amazon.

+$30 USD for aluminum gearbox lower mount.

---------

$185 Total

 

TT-02B Total Cost:

$115 for kit on Amazon.

+$135 for similar hop-ups.

-------

$250 Total

 

As you can tell from above, the DF-03 represents a great value compared to the TT-02B. It is substantially cheaper when both cars are comparably equipped. And from a design aspect, in every facet, the DF-03 is a much more advanced and capable car. The only thing that really lets the DF-03 down is its thin and cheap ABS plastic chassis. Otherwise, it's better in every other meaningful way. And around a track, its no contest the DF-03 wins. Which would you choose and why?

 

[Honza]

24 minutes ago, jsven008 said:

-02B Total Cost:

$115 for kit on Amazon.

+$135 for similar hop-ups.

-------

$250 Total

For that price, you can get TT-02BR, which comes with sealed diffs, CVDs, aluminium shocks and other hopups. At that point, I'd say it's better car than DF-03, plus it has better parts availability. 

[skom25]

In my area, DF-03 is around 170 Euros and TT-02B is only around 30 Euros cheaper.

TT-02B straight from the box is awful. Even with a lot of Hop Ups, it is far from anything you can call solid, slope free car. DF-03 kit is much, much better from the box.

However: TT-02B standard parts are very cheap and easily available. It is hard to damage Hop Ups parts if you do not bash it in skate park and plastic parts are super cheap. You can rebuild chassis, diffs, covers, suspension arms etc for around 20 Euros.

[Kowalski86]

Can I go with Option C and choose a Manta Ray?

[Elbowloh]

If you get a DF03, get a second set of the steel diff outdrives that are used in the front diff and use them in the rear. The rear's are plastic and melt with too much power. The front ones are a straight swap.

Also, you might want replace the diff balls with ceramic or tungsten carbide ones. It's also worthwhile noting that the slipper for the DF03 has been quite difficult to get hold of or the last few years, albeit a new batch was released recently. So get it whilst you can!

[Howards]

Why anyone would buy either in 2024 is beyond me. DF03 is so long in the tooth. TT02B is super basic and flimsy. TT02BR could keep you busy for a bit but it's still an unholy touring car chassis / buggy mashup.

[jsven008]

12 hours ago, Honza said:

For that price, you can get TT-02BR, which comes with sealed diffs, CVDs, aluminium shocks and other hopups. At that point, I'd say it's better car than DF-03, plus it has better parts availability. 

Since you mentioned it, I'm looking at buying one now Yup, the TT-02BR is a much better deal than a base TT02B with hopups. I sort of regret buying my base TT02B a couple years ago, except for the fact it has factory two-tone green/purple paint and the TT02BR wasn't released yet. Even after all the upgrades I bought, a TT02BR is still slightly better overall.

[jsven008]

2 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

Can I go with Option C and choose a Manta Ray?

Absolutely.

[jsven008]

1 hour ago, Elbowloh said:

If you get a DF03, get a second set of the steel diff outdrives that are used in the front diff and use them in the rear. The rear's are plastic and melt with too much power. The front ones are a straight swap.

Also, you might want replace the diff balls with ceramic or tungsten carbide ones. It's also worthwhile noting that the slipper for the DF03 has been quite difficult to get hold of or the last few years, albeit a new batch was released recently. So get it whilst you can!

Excellent suggestions. Im building a DF03 now, and doing some research I just bought all three of those: Ceramic balls, slipper, and front outdrives. Slipper is available for $30 USD at RCmart for anyone interested.

[jsven008]

9 hours ago, skom25 said:

TT-02B straight from the box is awful. Even with a lot of Hop Ups, it is far from anything you can call solid, slope free car. DF-03 kit is much, much better from the box.

However: TT-02B standard parts are very cheap and easily available.

My thoughts exactly. The base TT02B is awful for brushless, and I would only recommend it for brushed motors and very mild bashing, basically a kid's car. It's too expensive to make the TT02B good overall and bash-worthy.

I'm building a DF03 now and the kit is sooo much more advanced, better-designed, and higher-quality than the TT02B. Makes me wonder why they still offer the base TT02B at all. Im not saying its terrible, its just not a good value and has limited real-world use. Jumping it? Not a chance. Brushless 10.5t motor? Forget about it. Crashing it? Better hope that never happens. It's time for a TT03B Tamiya designers...

I won't buy another base TT02B. The TT02BR however is a different story and is actually compelling...

[Elbowloh]

35 minutes ago, jsven008 said:

Excellent suggestions. Im building a DF03 now, and doing some research I just bought all three of those: Ceramic balls, slipper, and front outdrives. Slipper is available for $30 USD at RCmart for anyone interested.

It's only because I built one last year and did as much research as I could on what I needed to upgrade before I started. Only got the slipper myself last month or so.

[Honza]

9 hours ago, jsven008 said:

and an optional slipper clutch.

Found out, that TT-02B can have a slipper as well. I wonder why there isn't an official Tamiya part, seems like XV-02 slipper would fit after couple of modifications to the spur shaft...

Link to a Japanese blog that describes how it's build.

[jsven008]

2 hours ago, Howards said:

Why anyone would buy either in 2024 is beyond me. DF03 is so long in the tooth. TT02B is super basic and flimsy. TT02BR could keep you busy for a bit but it's still an unholy touring car chassis / buggy mashup.

That might be said for a lot of Tamiya kits . You must choose one: flimsy or outdated. I bought one just to build and add to my collection. Like Pokémon, got to collect them all!

It's a shame there are not a lot of modern options. Tamiya gave up on competition buggies around 2008 with the DB01 release, almost certainly due to cost cutting from the global recession at the time. The DB01 RRR was the last respected race buggy.

If anyone from Tamiya reads this, please bring back the Tamiya competition-grade designs and buggies! We do very much miss those! And the days when Tamiya would release new buggy kits two years apart, like the DF02 and DF03. Bring back the things that made Tamiya famous!

[skom25]

10 minutes ago, jsven008 said:

That might be said for a lot of Tamiya kits . You must choose one: flimsy or outdated. I bought one just to build and add to my collection. Like Pokémon, got to collect them all!

It's a shame there are not a lot of modern options. Tamiya gave up on competition buggies around 2008 with the DB01 release, almost certainly due to cost cutting from the global recession at the time. The DB01 RRR was the last respected race buggy.

If anyone from Tamiya reads this, please bring back the Tamiya competition-grade designs and buggies! We do very much miss those! And the days when Tamiya would release new buggy kits two years apart, like the DF02 and DF03. Bring back the things that made Tamiya famous!

Quite sad. Currently most advanced is TD4 which is bit weird and too complicated.

[jsven008]

8 minutes ago, Honza said:

Found out, that TT-02B can have a slipper as well. I wonder why there isn't an official Tamiya part, seems like XV-02 slipper would fit after couple of modifications to the spur shaft...

Link to a Japanese blog that describes how it's build.

This is an excellent find! Now if only I didn't sink so much money into my base TT02B I'd be tempted to do this. It's already so much of a Frankenstein though...

Hum about that TT02BR, oh so many RC cars I want...

[skom25]

My TT-02B, except of diff oils, is much higher spec than BR. It has still many weak points and is far from "High Spec" car.

[jsven008]

22 minutes ago, skom25 said:

My TT-02B, except of diff oils, is much higher spec than BR. It has still many weak points and is far from "High Spec" car.

My TT02B has a full list of hop-ups but it’s still slightly below the TT02BR specification and consistency wise. See my article “TT02B -blasting off to 60mph+” if you’re wondering what I added. I built it as fast, light, and durable as possible, but there is only so much you can do with a TT02B…

Then, why waste money on a hop-up TT02B? Because it was $230 with upgrades rather than $430+ for a Tekno. And the TT02B suits my needs (bashing, higher speed) just fine.  Plus parts are cheap. Now if you want a race buggy, that is another story…

If I had to do it all over would I buy a base TT02B? Yes, just one. Only one. Never again though.

[Kowalski86]

9 hours ago, Howards said:

Why anyone would buy either in 2024 is beyond me. DF03 is so long in the tooth. TT02B is super basic and flimsy.

I can't think of good reason beyond being brand loyal to Tamiya, or one of the few TT02B-spec classes in Japan.

For a time I had an "Exceed Sunfire", which used to retail for roughly $100. Other than a mediocre bodyshell it did the whole "touring car gone buggy" thing better.

7 hours ago, jsven008 said:

That might be said for a lot of Tamiya kits . You must choose one: flimsy or outdated.

How would you classify their recent "really expensive rally cars"?

[Wheel_Nut]

TT-02BR with every upgrade seems cool. But I’m concerned it’s too flimsy.  I’d be more likely to buy a Top Force then upgrade the bell cranks and prop shaft set.

[jsven008]

6 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

I can't think of good reason beyond being brand loyal to Tamiya, or one of the few TT02B-spec classes in Japan.

For a time I had an "Exceed Sunfire", which used to retail for roughly $100. Other than a mediocre bodyshell it did the whole "touring car gone buggy" thing better.

How would you classify their recent "really expensive rally cars"?

Expensive? Tamiya makes some really nice kits, don't get me wrong. The TT-02B and the DF-03 are great cars for certain specific purposes. I like the TT-02B as a brushed motor, mild basher and the DF-03 as a retro, almost-vintage track car. I still use my hop'ed-up TT-02B all the time, in fact I use it far more often than my 3S brushless Arrma Typhoon. I like most 4wd Tamiya buggies, flimsy or outdated. I am still impressed with the DF-03 kit I am building, it's an excellent overall kit. Even 20 years after it was released...just wish Tamiya had released a reinforced chassis for it.

[jsven008]

2 hours ago, Wheel_Nut said:

TT-02BR with every upgrade seems cool. But I’m concerned it’s too flimsy.  I’d be more likely to buy a Top Force then upgrade the bell cranks and prop shaft set.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. Looking at one now. Though if you are worried about the TT-02BR being flimsy, I assure you I have flipped and cartwheeled my TT-02B at 50MPH+ (3S Lipo) on pavement, and it held up just fine. Its a lot more durable than you might think, especially with a few hop-ups. The TT-02BR will hold up to punishment. Now if you mean the handling being 'flimsy' or imprecise, that is a different story. You'd be much better with a Tekno, Losi, XRay, Associated...

*Update: Just bought a Top Force. I'll be building it after I finish my new DF-03 Dark Impact, then my new DB-01 Durga, then finally the DF-01 Top Force. Since I already have a new DF-02 and DF-03, I needed a DF-01 I'll be posting build guides in the future...

[vodka]

15 hours ago, Honza said:

Found out, that TT-02B can have a slipper as well. I wonder why there isn't an official Tamiya part, seems like XV-02 slipper would fit after couple of modifications to the spur shaft...

Link to a Japanese blog that describes how it's build. tyres 

If you can't tighten the spring with the nut, it's pretty useless.

[Honza]

1 hour ago, vodka said:

If you can't tighten the spring with the nut, it's pretty useless.

You can - there's a tube that goes through the bearing, which transmits force from the nut to the spring. It's quite limited range, but you could increase tension by adding inserts between the spring and tube.

[DTSCB]

On 6/17/2024 at 10:32 AM, Honza said:

Found out, that TT-02B can have a slipper as well. I wonder why there isn't an official Tamiya part, seems like XV-02 slipper would fit after couple of modifications to the spur shaft...

Link to a Japanese blog that describes how it's build.

How did you build this?  In the Japanese blog, the slipper plates weren't tamiya and had round holes (vs the oblong shaft hole in the XV-02 one).  Wouldn't that mean the slipper plates will just spin on the slipper shaft and the only thing linking rotational force is the spring?

[Honza]

4 hours ago, DTSCB said:

How did you build this?  In the Japanese blog, the slipper plates weren't tamiya and had round holes (vs the oblong shaft hole in the XV-02 one).  Wouldn't that mean the slipper plates will just spin on the slipper shaft and the only thing linking rotational force is the spring?

I didn't build it, I just found the blog. 😃 The slipper pads do have flats, they are just not as pronounced as on Tamiya parts.