Have the TD4 and TD2 cars failed? The Offroad lineup

[CKU87 38]

Last evening when I was browsing through the online stores of my favorite Tamiya dealers, I asked myself why Tamiya has no better offering in modern day offroad buggys than the DF03 (I don't count the TT02BR as its basically a lower tier chassis). Hours later I realized that I had completely forgot about the TD4 and TD2. It seems like they failed miserably. I have seen the TD4 kit at 160 Euros in my country.

I do understand that Tamiya is no more in the competitive offroad racing scene. I guess they want us to buy the nice Avante, Egress and Top Force kits and enjoy them.

What are your thoughts on the current offroad lineup? Especially interestedin hearing about the TT02BR, the DF03.

To me the just released Top Force at 170 Euros is currently the best Tamiya pick at price/performance.

 

 

[wtcc5 5570]

I agree for Germany. If the shops offer them that low, these things didn’t sell well. I wasn’t convinced of the design, but pulled the trigger when the discounts came. Despite my motivation to buy the TD4, I think the design fits fine in the Tamiya history lineage.

For an old bloke like me it cannot compete with the TF (Evo) and performance wise doesn’t seem to be better (except for the slipper option).

I cannot judge if they failed, but don’t think, there are enough people in the hobby to go for a 200-400€ price range plastic buggy nowadays. Us fanboys will do for the brand all the emotions we connect with it. Everyone else is either going for cheap toys or competition chassis. 

[Kowalski86 4071]

Here in the US, the only buggies that really sell are Armma Typhoons and nameless Bangood specials. It's just not a popular class outside of racing where Tamiya may as well be a phantom.

I think the only really good off-roader in Tamiyas current line-up is the BBX, almost everything else is either a re-re, stale (DT series), or very overpriced (TD series).

Within the Tamiya fan base, it's clear that scale on-roaders are much more popular since they look more like real cars.

[Gabranth 217]

3 hours ago, CKU87 said:

Last evening when I was browsing through the online stores of my favorite Tamiya dealers, I asked myself why Tamiya has no better offering in modern day offroad buggys than the DF03 (I don't count the TT02BR as its basically a lower tier chassis).

 

 

I think you forgot DB01, so good that Tamiya released it multiple times with more Rs added in its name.

[Blista 1549]

I don't know if the TD is a failure.  I guess it could be, but the DF03 is still selling while all I read about it is how weak the chassis is.  People must keep buying it somewhere.  It's been selling for 2 decades but you can't race it competitively and it won't stand up to much abuse.

[CKU87 38]

9 hours ago, Gabranth said:

I think you forgot DB01, so good that Tamiya released it multiple times with more Rs added in its name.

I think that one isn’t really sold in Europe if I am not mistaken

[BuggyGuy 1139]

I think it might be a bit of a sales flop, which is a bit unfortunate as they are currently the most capable track cars in the the lineup.

My TD2 is very capable on astro and carpet (though it does have a clutch, diff upgrade and some other bits). I couldn't make the TD4 competitive though for some reason, just couldn't get the steering right.

The rear hub is also a severe weakpoint on these cars (you can swap the rear arms to DB01/TRF201/TRF5** items with the matching driveshafts and the XV01 rear hub as a work around - this lets you use standard rear wheels too).

[Howards 593]

The TD cars are good if somewhat confusing. And More than a match for the TF, DF03 and Tt02BR in every way that actually matters.

If they are a commercial failure I doubt we’ll see another go from Tamiya for a long time. 

[Howards 593]

1 hour ago, BuggyGuy said:

The rear hub is also a severe weakpoint on these cars

I wondered if this was deliberate - stops you from breaking something harder to replace, like the rear suspension mount or a wishbone. At least the uprights are symmetrical parts unlike the older ones…

[Killajb 1594]

The TD2/TD4 is an interesting topic in terms of success or failure.  I own a TD4 and like it a lot.  However, from a marketing standpoint I think Tamiya failed on many issues:

The Avante/Astute namesake:    Obvious fails here (in my opinion).  The only remote connection a TD4 has to an Avante or a TD2 has to an Astute are the 4wd and 2wd configurations.  I think it was a big letdown to Tamiya purists who expected a similar "Tamiya" approach to what the original Avante and Astute were.

Box Art/Body Shape:  The original Avante is still one of the best looking buggies ever made.  The futuristic body shape, color, box art decals and all are (in my opinion) still perhaps one of the top 5 best looking buggies from any era.  TD4/TD2?  Nah, not at all.  The body shape is so far removed from the original Avante its almost the opposite!  Bloated instead of cutting edge, and the color schemes are let us just say..   emm..  not extremely popular.   

Its too bad that Tamiya decided to try to use either the Avante or Astute namesake for these.  I feel right from the jump, they set themselves up to fail from a purist's standpoint.  Had they called this something else, it may not have grabbed so much initial attention (which I think is a good thing in this case), but eventually the design would be recognized  for what it is, rather than be compared to what the original Avante and Astute were.  Look no further than the BBX for a unique and new Tamiya design with an obscure name that happened to draw quite a bit of attention to itself.  Ah well.. what the heck to do I know anyway.

[Twinfan 1831]

They're just names.  If the buggy was what the market wanted they would have sold.  I think ultimately the demand for a new Tamiya non-racing, higher end buggy chassis just isn't there in large numbers.

I like them (I have a few TD4s and TD2s in my collection) and I'm looking forward to building a TD4 which is next in my build queue.

[BuggyDad 5385]

37 minutes ago, Twinfan said:

They're just names.  If the buggy was what the market wanted they would have sold.  I think ultimately the demand for a new Tamiya non-racing, higher end buggy chassis just isn't there in large numbers.

I like them (I have a few TD4s and TD2s in my collection) and I'm looking forward to building a TD4 which is next in my build queue.

I'm inclined to think the same. 

And if Tamiya also think the same (as seems likely) then that'll be bad news for us lot I guess. 

Personally, I think the TD4 is a marvellous thing (body notwithstanding, but it's just a body - they could make others). I can't wait to get mine back to a track. Although frustratingly one of its Big Bores has leaked. Grr. 

49 minutes ago, Killajb said:

The original Avante is still one of the best looking buggies ever made.

Agreed! Marmite though, I think. 

TD4 can be a bit more Avante. Kinda. 

But I also agree that recycling old names for a fairly unrelated design is questionable. Maybe better to save the names for something that's more of a modern design in the same lineage, type thing. But then, maybe they see these designs that way. It's subjective. Some of the ethos is there Avante to TD4: Tamiya's latest attempt at a race grade buggy, pushing the boat out with some real weirdness, some very 'out there' aspects to the shell (I still want to fit fenders to mine, now even more so after watching a spot of F1 yesterday). 

[Saito2 7303]

2 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Some of the ethos is there Avante to TD4: Tamiya's latest attempt at a race grade buggy, pushing the boat out with some real weirdness, some very 'out there' aspects to the shell

I agree. I think this is where Tamiya's head was at when using the name. The TD4 is more in the spirit of the original than the DF03 Mk2 version or the DF02 Aero version. Too bad the body created for it was.....not good or well received shall we say.  This leads to :

3 hours ago, Killajb said:

I feel right from the jump, they set themselves up to fail from a purist's standpoint. 

So you have a quirky design just as the original Avante was quirky for its day, but its topped with a shell that's widely seen as unattractive and puts off the Avante enthusiast from the start. That's strike one.

Then there was initial cost. It wasn't cheap being probably too much for just a club racer at best. Racers go with proven tech. Looking at how homogeneous race buggies can be in any given era once the formula was nailed down, this isn't a surprise. That cost btw, also drives off the average cheap and cheerful Tamiya enthusiast too. Strike two.

There's also small issues requiring upgrades too, diff nuts for sure and possibly metal bevels. For the price, universals and a slipper would have been nice too. The construction wasn't perfect either during the build though it does use superior materials compared to the standard Tamiya. I know it cost Tamiya a ton in development money and I can excuse there cost cutting measures in this case but I still couldn't bring myself to purchase one until the price dropped $100. Asking the average customer not completely in love with Tamiya as we are to accept these excuses isn't reality. Strike three (?).

 

Who is the buggy for? RC is not a colossal market to begin with. Once you begin pairing it down, slicing into smaller and smaller segments within the hobby, you severely limit your market. Tamiya obviously had plans for this platform but in the end, it was a car without a home in the overall market.

[scoobybooster 288]

4 hours ago, Killajb said:

The TD2/TD4 is an interesting topic in terms of success or failure.  I own a TD4 and like it a lot.  However, from a marketing standpoint I think Tamiya failed on many issues:

The Avante/Astute namesake:    Obvious fails here (in my opinion).  The only remote connection a TD4 has to an Avante or a TD2 has to an Astute are the 4wd and 2wd configurations.  I think it was a big letdown to Tamiya purists who expected a similar "Tamiya" approach to what the original Avante and Astute were.

Box Art/Body Shape:  The original Avante is still one of the best looking buggies ever made.  The futuristic body shape, color, box art decals and all are (in my opinion) still perhaps one of the top 5 best looking buggies from any era.  TD4/TD2?  Nah, not at all.  The body shape is so far removed from the original Avante its almost the opposite!  Bloated instead of cutting edge, and the color schemes are let us just say..   emm..  not extremely popular.   

Its too bad that Tamiya decided to try to use either the Avante or Astute namesake for these.  I feel right from the jump, they set themselves up to fail from a purist's standpoint.  Had they called this something else, it may not have grabbed so much initial attention (which I think is a good thing in this case), but eventually the design would be recognized  for what it is, rather than be compared to what the original Avante and Astute were.  Look no further than the BBX for a unique and new Tamiya design with an obscure name that happened to draw quite a bit of attention to itself.  Ah well.. what the heck to do I know anyway.

I second that 1000%, exactly my thoughts

[Howards 593]

It's funny though, I take mine to the track and everyone loves it...especially the body 😹 

[nowinaminute 3322]

I do kinda like the Avante, I can see why it's divisive, though.

A lot of Tamiya vehicles were hated for their looks initially, but people warmed to them. So I always keep that in mind,

BUT, I feel like when you have such a well established lineage, though, that such a huge departure in the looks department can be quite jarring. I think it looks kinda cool in it's own right, but in terms of being a descendant of the Avante with a modern spin, I don't really think they nailed it.

I feel like it might have been better marketed with a different name.

So, yeah, personally, I kinda like it, but I get why people don't.

They could have easily made a modern "re imagining" of the basic design language and had something that looked contemporary while still having the obvious DNA of the original.

All the same applies to the Astute, too. It looks cool, imho, but how are you going to have an Astute without big yellow dampers? What's next, a boomerang with 2 black dampers at the front?

Hopefully they release some more models that have better executed styling, either a better representation of what they are supposed to be, or something that stands on it's own merits. 

It's a shame as it's a great chassis by all accounts, and it seems it's not getting the attention it deserves.

I just feel like they have been a bit of a missed opportunity. And it's frustrating, because you only have to look at the BBX to see they are perfectly capable of getting it right. I'll be interested to see what else they do with that chassis next.

[nowinaminute 3322]

On 6/22/2024 at 9:05 PM, CKU87 said:

160 Euros in my country.

I'd buy one in a heartbeat at that price!

 

 

On 6/22/2024 at 9:05 PM, CKU87 said:

Top Force at 170 Euros

Jeeeze they are £250 here.

Is this Brexit's doing again!?

[Twinfan 1831]

TD4 is rarely under £225 here in the UK, Ione of mine was £212.49.  I don't think I've seen one cheaper, even a Tamico import is more than that.  Similarly for the TD2, other than a few blowout bargains I picked up the next cheapest was £195-ish.  Again Tamico is more expensive.

Speaking of Tamico, they're the cheapest I know of for a Top Force at £207-ish including shipping and VAT : https://tamico.de/Tamiya-47350-Top-Force-2017-Kit

Nothing to do with Brexit, just the UK importer setting a high price.  See also the Avante and Egress variants.

[Howards 593]

I'd quite like another Td4 for £225. Where can I get one?

[simalarion 2530]

https://tamico.de/Tamiya-58696-Super-Avante-TD4-4WD-Bausatz-110

[Twinfan 1831]

2 minutes ago, Howards said:

I'd quite like another Td4 for £225. Where can I get one?

https://fieldsofglorymodels.co.uk/products/tamiya-rc-car-1-10-super-avante-td4

10% off your first order if you sign up for emails  

[Howards 593]

3 minutes ago, simalarion said:

https://tamico.de/Tamiya-58696-Super-Avante-TD4-4WD-Bausatz-110

After import duty this will be more than £225 so buying domestically looks more attractive. 

[Twinfan 1831]

6 minutes ago, Howards said:

After import duty this will be more than £225 so buying domestically looks more attractive. 

Yep, that's the cheapest I know of currently.  I think there were a few other places around the £225 mark for a little while to wind down the initial overstocks, but now they're stocked in smaller numbers, or shops only get them in to order, the price has crept up a little.

[simalarion 2530]

incl Vat Tamico is darn close to your given price, but you must add Shipping. But then again Tamico will not accept order under 280 Euro to norway, but it seems UK get away with 160 Euro so it might work for you.

if you meant 225 GBP incl shipping i got nothing ..

[Howards 593]

heh, yeah, I want to pay £225 to get one in to my house