Make sure you're storing your LiPos safely, folks!

[simalarion]

Not stating anything its more a question, can you consider Gas any safer?. I believe that Airplane accident often are related to Gas leaking or human error handling it, biggest accident that comes to mind is Concord 

[alvinlwh]

Saying that Y is more dangerous than X is just whataboutism and diversion. It does not reduce the hazards of X and we are not talking about Y here anyway.

[simalarion]

47 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Saying that Y is more dangerous than X is just whataboutism and diversion. It does not reduce the hazards of X and we are not talking about Y here anyway

I just stated in my small amount off text that it was Not statement but a question, in other words i wonder

[simalarion]

I wonder because i believe we normalise many hazards like another example storing propan Gas for Barbecuing inside (many use Propsn Gas in kitchen stove also), this is crazier to me. As long as i handle the RC Hobby Lipos as you suposed to i feel safe with them, the propan Gas on the other hand not so much, with good reasons.

Maybe many is so sceptic because its a rather new “thing” i wonder

edit: and yes i had a couple Propan Gas and Gasoline accidents in my life :), one pretty bad also

[Wooders28]

7 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Nah, that was a while ago and that was not general waste but recycling. I know because I did the fire detection upgrade there.

https://theorkneynews.scot/2019/12/22/fire-at-chinglebraes-due-to-lithium-batteries-in-waste/

 

Few in Glasgow recently..

 

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/why-is-scotland-seeing-a-surge-in-fires-at-battery-recycling-centres

[alvinlwh]

1 hour ago, Wooders28 said:

Few in Glasgow recently..

 

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/why-is-scotland-seeing-a-surge-in-fires-at-battery-recycling-centres

That is a WEEE facility where Li batteries are expected. The one we had the fire here is just a regular metal recycling facility. Someone tossed Li batteries into the metal bin.

[Honza]

On 6/24/2024 at 5:15 PM, nowinaminute said:

Don't charge unattended.
Don't over/under charge.
Always balance charge.
Use the correct settings.
Use the correct charger.
Dispose of damaged/puffed/misbehaving packs.

To add a few:

- Never store fully charged batteries. Use storage mode (3,8-3,85V/cell)

- fully discharge the battery before disposal.

[No Slack]

This happened last april. E-bikes with batteries thrown away as scrap metal. The batteries caught fire and caused a huge fire. A public alert was given.

[Juls1]

Its very easy to not have a fire, 

A. Never overdischarge any cell, just once and the pack becomes a risk.

B. Never overload (try to draw more than the C rating. Again, just once and the pack is then a risk.)  
C. Never store flat batterys more than 48hrs

D. Never store”fully aka 100%” charged batterys more than 7 days.

E. Never overcharge any cells in a pack. (Eg: always balance charge “ALWAYS”).

F. Only store batterys charged at least 20% but not more than 80%. (3.8-4v per cell)

G. If the pack is remaining swollen at rest, dispose of it in a salt water bath for 30 days. The lithium is disabled, Then it is safe to put in the bin without any risk of fire. Do not continue using heavily swollen packs. 

The reason that cheap consumer products including real cars catch fire is generally because of abuse (such as over discharging) and because the battery management systems are not up to scratch either. Charging systems not sophisticated enough. In a car, its quite difficult to monitor all 4000 or so cells, i don’t believe they do manage every cell individually, and ultimately thats why fire comes before the BMS detecting a issue.

 

[alvinlwh]

I wonder, if the BMS on a B787 is not good enough to prevent fires, what chances do we have?

[Juls1]

26 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

I wonder, if the BMS on a B787 is not good enough to prevent fires, what chances do we have?

I’m sure it was after the second fire!!! They were using batteries that were not properly tested/certified. Only makes sense it was going to go wrong. 

[Gebbly]

Given that some of the advice I often see is to not store a battery at 100% but also dont store it below a certain level, @Juls1 suggests 20%. Dont batteries lose a little charge over time if left sitting?

So that would mean that ownership of a LiPo also means remembering to occasionally charge the batteries when not in use (I have a shocking memory)? I tend to be a bit fickle with hobbies and move between them. I may play with RC for a month or 2 and then move on to something else like woodwork for several months.

Would I need to regularly dig out the battery to top it back up to storage charge level? How often would that need to be done?

[Juls1]

24 minutes ago, Gebbly said:

Given that some of the advice I often see is to not store a battery at 100% but also dont store it below a certain level, @Juls1 suggests 20%. Dont batteries lose a little charge over time if left sitting?

So that would mean that ownership of a LiPo also means remembering to occasionally charge the batteries when not in use (I have a shocking memory)? I tend to be a bit fickle with hobbies and move between them. I may play with RC for a month or 2 and then move on to something else like woodwork for several months.

Would I need to regularly dig out the battery to top it back up to storage charge level? How often would that need to be done?

Lipo’s don’t really naturally discharge that much, Nimh batterys and to a lesser extent nicads will discharge over time, you had to keep an eye on those in the old days. Notice when you buy a new lipo, its rarely more than 25% charged. These can be years old when you finally purchase them. 

[alvinlwh]

53 minutes ago, Juls1 said:

I’m sure it was after the second fire!!! They were using batteries that were not properly tested/certified. Only makes sense it was going to go wrong. 

Good point! I wonder how well tested or certified, if at all, our batteries are? I remember when I was doing research, I asked about the C ratings of my batteries, I was told what is printed on the batteries are lies. Then what is the real C rating??? AFAIK, we do not even know who really made the cells inside before a label is slapped on.

EDIT: Another example, my battery stated on the label it can charge at 3C, yet I am constantly told I can only charge them safely at 1C. Who should I believe? The manufacturer or the "experts"?