Why arent Tamiya RCs "competitive"?

[Kowalski86 3983]

18 hours ago, wolfdogstinkus said:

 I don't think I've ever seen a hobby brand RC anywhere other than a dedicated model shop?. 

I've seen Traxxas at auto shops and sports stores (ATV, motorcycles), meanwhile both AE and Losi used to sell Yoyos and toy-grade stuff to toy stores.

[Wooders28 4857]

On 7/10/2024 at 6:51 PM, Rinskie said:

What I find more interesting are the companies that once only made racing stuff are now making toy grade disposables RC's.

I believe its the RTR market, that are keeping alot of brands in business. 

(Seperate thread, but also the likes of Kev Talbot are helping too, by keeping a demand for replacement rtr cars, and spares market alive, ...) 

[Juls1 1716]

I really think we all underestimate how much tamiya cars are still being sold. Many of my local hobby stores often have 25-50 Tamiya kits in stock. And have done so for the last 4-5 years. You need to be quick to grab any of the more popular kits or you miss out. The stock is always the latest so someone is buying these kits. The stores have if course 200+ other rtr cars of varying brands but Tamiya are the only “kits”. 
 

i don’t personally see any reason for tamiya to try to join in the Traxxas / Arrma marketplace of big heavy powerful bashers. 
 

i’m happy for them to keep releasing new and interesting models as well as rerelease the odd ball stuff, even if some of the cheaper stuff is pretty crap and seemingly uncompetitive there is still something more enjoyable about Building a junker compared to buying something thats done.

[alvinlwh 6868]

5 hours ago, Juls1 said:

odd ball stuff

Odd balls are the only main interest I have in Tamiya now. Right now I am putting together a shopping list for a few of those.

[Kowalski86 3983]

8 hours ago, Juls1 said:

I really think we all underestimate how much tamiya cars are still being sold. Many of my local hobby stores often have 25-50 Tamiya kits in stock.

At my LHS they will usually have maybe 10 or so in stock, the TT02s, M chassis (M06, MF01X), Hornets, and Pumpkins are all regular sellers. In fact they probably move more TT02s than any of their race-grade buggy kits.

[ABigChungus 70]

The club in our village runs Tamiya truck racing, but that doesn't stop the organisers and members from actively telling people not to buy Tamiya as "they are s**t" and "plastic c**p".

[Dakratfink 1020]

Why aren’t Tamiya “competitive” ?

Because no one else can compete with a cartoon mascot bear popping wheelies on a black Lamborghini Tractor 

[Kowalski86 3983]

Something to note is Tamiyas more light-hearted approach to RC, years and years ago the slot car craze was a big thing in Japan, but things became way too serious and people were burned out of the hobby.

Look at how niche the racing scene is, how dead serious a lot of participants are and how many posts you see online with newcomers being put off. A small group of big spenders isn't good for the longevity of a hobby.

17 hours ago, ABigChungus said:

The club in our village runs Tamiya truck racing, but that doesn't stop the organisers and members from actively telling people not to buy Tamiya as "they are s**t" and "plastic c**p".

Case in point, I'm not sure if I'd want to race with that crowd.

[Nikko85 3759]

At some point in their development I assume Tamiya just gave up trying to compete the same way, and went down a different route. I'm not sure if that was intentional, or just a realisation that they were behind, but that they were still selling, and now they've stuck with it.

On 7/10/2024 at 9:00 AM, Gebbly said:

To my extremely beginner eye a lot of RC cars are broadly the same. Similar plastics, similar servos and motors, similar shapes for aerodynamics. Could someone explain the sorts of things that make a vehicle "more competitive"? Do other manufacturers use materials that are lighter, or faster motors or something?

I think in part you answer your own question. If you look at an F1 car they all look the same, the same set of rules and laws of physics essentially means that they will all convergently evolve to the same point, and RC cars are going that way. I find the monotony and aesthetics of cab forward buggies or the new interpretation of monster trucks by Traxxas and Arma just really ugly.

Tamiya make things different for the sake if it, because if they didn't they would just produce another clone. The laydown shocks of the TD2 probably aren't competitive, but **** it looks cool and it's different. The gears in the GF01 are insane, but that's part of the fun.

I'm not blind of their faults, I wish the plastics were better and kits came with bearings and basic oil shocks and some designs just need a tweak or reboot, but I'd rather Tamiya be Tamiya than another Traxxas.

I've said it before, but I've love them to do some remakes of the classics. Nothing too extreme, but an attempt to make something like the Lunchbox of Grasshopper work to more modern standards, whilst keeping the general feel. 

[Saito2 7236]

Nowadays that Tamiya is mostly out of racing, its more about selecting the right tool for the job. Tamiyas are generally designed to work within a set of operating parameters. Now it may be fun to try to modify them to do and be more than that or it may be an exercise in futility but at least it was an interesting road to get there (vs just pulling something out of a box and running it).

What puzzles me is the Tamiya-hate that racing-oriented folks and hard core bashers seem to shell out. Were they frustrated by failure with Tamiya products? The original Avante fiasco is long in the rear view at this point. Did racing a Top Force Evo re-release in the last 3 years on today's tracks end in breakage? Did a Blackfoot break launching it off a huge BMX jump?  Perhaps a "junky" old DF03 gave up when being thrashed at a skate park. Sometimes I wonder if these critics get mad at a screwdriver when it fails to drive in a nail. It could be they just want to elevate themselves and their purchasing habits by putting others down.

Our best reply as Tamiya fanatics seems to be the general consensus that cab forward racing stuff and Traxxas/Arrma-style bashers are usually considered ugly in our eyes. The ideal solution is to just pick the right tool for the job. 

[Howards 586]

I've found the racing folk to be really friendly and accommodating tbh. They seem to enjoy something going round that isn't the norm, especially if it is quick. 

Also my Thursday night buggy carpet race heat had more Tamiya in it than any other brand 🤭 

[ABigChungus 70]

6 minutes ago, Howards said:

I've found the racing folk to be really friendly and accommodating tbh. They seem to enjoy something going round that isn't the norm, especially if it is quick. 

Also my Thursday night buggy carpet race heat had more Tamiya in it than any other brand 🤭 

It was more the little comments at our local club that did it for me. Comments such as "that's plastic c**p mate", "never buy a Tamiya, they are s**t", "I can't believe someone would actually bring that to our club". It just gave off a very negative atmosphere, sort of like "We'll let you run it, but you'll see and hear we aren't happy about it." Which I can't understand really now, seeing as they run a Tamiya truck heat and still will comment about how poor they think the brand as a whole is. They put a big post on our villages Facebook page about how they wanted more people to attend and to bring their "Tamiya whatever", but then members have no problem slagging them off when they do turn up.

[Howards 586]

You can always have a word with the club chair. Feedback is helpful. It doesn't help clubs to carry that kind of vibe, even if the comments are somewhat in jest.

[ABigChungus 70]

8 minutes ago, Howards said:

You can always have a word with the club chair. Feedback is helpful. It doesn't help clubs to carry that kind of vibe, even if the comments are somewhat in jest.

I really don't think they were that bothered when I did mention it as it always got glazed over. It seemed to be when Kevin Talbot and RCKicks started regularly attending that the negative atmosphere set in, almost like "We've got Youtubers coming now, we only want to race the best to make sure they keep coming". Not that I'm saying it is down to the Youtubers, but it did seem to be around that time that the fun atmosphere seemed to disappear and you had to take it 100% seriously if you wanted to be deemed worthy enough to attend, without the snide comments. Which for me summed Tamiya up really. Tamiya is made more for the thrill and excitement of driving your new car, whereas other brands are more the person who wants everything to be 100% perfect and the best who will not settle for anything less, and who compares their competition to make sure they aren't falling behind in any way.

[Howards 586]

Ugh, vote with your feet. There are loads of welcoming clubs about. 

Not sure the RCKicks chap has been particularly helpful though. 

[markbt73 5597]

Competition only matters to those who aren't confident and secure enough to just forge their own path.

And not for nothing, but when I was out "exercising batteries" the other day, it was my Traxxas Stampede that failed me - lost an E-clip off a kingpin, which allowed the pin to slide out and jam up the wheel. My beat-half-to-death Hornet built from spare parts and leftovers performed flawlessly.

[Pablo68 1093]

My thoughts on the OP were around the question, competitive with what? In what way?
Tamiya are basically in their own world and as far as I know always have been. Especially when you factor in that their main focus is the Japanese market. I'm reminded of their statement when shutting down the TRF off road team etc. It went something like, 'we are not an RC company, we are a plastic model company that happens to make RC cars'. They also said one way or another that they weren't interested in competing in racing.

To me this is a very Tamiya way of doing things. They are a Japanese company after all.

[Howards 586]

1 hour ago, ABigChungus said:

"We've got Youtubers coming now, we only want to race the best to make sure they keep coming".

This club is fairly local to me, so I might pop up there and get my TD4 in the A main.

[ABigChungus 70]

It may very well be a different atmosphere now, but after three visits, each time running a Tamiya and having comments made and a negative experience every time, I had no desire of ever going back. I think the moment that made me give up with the whole club scene was when my DT02 was taken out of the "bring whatever Tamiya you wanna race" race, and i was put with the Brushless buggies for no real reason. Then the Tamiya race begins and it's just trucks that came out, I thought maybe it's because they're racing just trucks i was taken out...oh hang on, there's TA01's, TT02 touring cars and a TT02B going round with the trucks...  so okay, what was the real reason I was taken out? It was a Bring whatever Tamiya you want race the organiser told me, I guess it was as long as its the Tamiya they wanted you to race. I think Kevin was also at this race and the organisers tried to make it a big deal that he was there and racing, saying to me "You'll be racing with Kev, that's cool right?!" I had no idea who he was until after the event.

 I just found it it fairly hypocritical that they claimed to be a Tamiya friendly club and yet members were actively saying "Tamiya are s**t" "You'll never be taken seriously running that". Almost as if you can't be there for the fun of it, you need to be there to take it 100% seriously. Normally I wouldn't really be bothered about other people's opinions but it just seemed like it was being hammered in over and over that what I had was a joke or terrible, kind of like right get that Tamiya heat out the way, time for the pro's to come on. Clubs with people like that, who look down on other brands and who seem more worried about cosying up to the local Youtubers, they're doing more damage than good I feel. And it seems to be that since RCkicks made and filmed his series about Why you should never buy a Tamiya for racing at the club in our village, other members on their page have been repeating his lines, saying things like I would NEVER recommend a Tamiya to anyone. What, even for the fun? Tamiya do not try and be competitive these days and make cutting edge machines, they are more for the enjoyment and for getting people into the hobby which is why I feel people at the club and RCKicks with that series are actually doing more harm than good.

[Howards 586]

Ahhh sorry to hear about this, it all sounds like a muddle. 

For carpet racing you do need something tough, fast and well set up. I've found it to be the most demanding type of racing, both on your brain and equipment. Maybe you could get a DT02 good enough - but it might be better to learn the ropes on an outdoor track first.  

If you want to have another crack at racing you can get a lot of track time at Stotford on Wednesday nights or Sunday afternoons, which is an outdoor astroturf track.  

[Nick-W 1763]

2 hours ago, ABigChungus said:

I really don't think they were that bothered when I did mention it as it always got glazed over. It seemed to be when Kevin Talbot and RCKicks started regularly attending that the negative atmosphere set in, almost like "We've got Youtubers coming now, we only want to race the best to make sure they keep coming". Not that I'm saying it is down to the Youtubers, but it did seem to be around that time that the fun atmosphere seemed to disappear and you had to take it 100% seriously if you wanted to be deemed worthy enough to attend, without the snide comments. Which for me summed Tamiya up really. Tamiya is made more for the thrill and excitement of driving your new car, whereas other brands are more the person who wants everything to be 100% perfect and the best who will not settle for anything less, and who compares their competition to make sure they aren't falling behind in any way.

That’s a shame. I was eyeing that club up as it’s closer to me than Stevenage.

If on-road is your thing I can highly recommend the Indoor Raceway at Stevenage. Lots of classes, including two (stock and truck) for Tamiya. Everyone there seems really friendly and whilst some of the pro-touring class take it quite seriously everything lower down is treated as the fun it is.    

[ABigChungus 70]

I think there was one guy there, he was really polite and chatty, he came up to me when he saw my ThunderShot and Boomerang and was genuinely interested in them as he had them when he was a child, and he said he couldn't wait to see them race. He used to say I would love racing them round the track. After every race he came up to me and said "I loved that mate, it was like being back in the 80's, fantastic." The first time he watched my ThunderShot go round he said "Look at the driver, he's got the biggest grin on his face!"

But for every positive comment he gave me, there was always another put down by someone else unfortunately. Maybe it's my fault for not taking it seriously enough, I should have looked elsewhere for a club that just does bash abouts. Some of the races I've watched on YouTube with lunchboxes bouncing around everywhere look like a blast, you see everyone is laughing or has the biggest grin, no steely gazes or looks of frustration or determination. I know our local club also does this once in a blue moon but there are no real rules or limitations, I was told my brushless lunchbox could have gone up against the stock 27 turn motors no problem, and I was also told that whilst it was a Tamiya Big Wheels Races, my GF01 Dump truck was too big...so again I just thought ah whatever, maybe I need to find somewhere and compete more with people who just want a bit of fun, which Tamiya are meant to be for, not those who if they don't shave a few milliseconds off of their lap times consider the night a failure.

[Pablo68 1093]

17 minutes ago, ABigChungus said:

I think there was one guy there, he was really polite and chatty, he came up to me when he saw my ThunderShot and Boomerang and was genuinely interested in them as he had them when he was a child, and he said he couldn't wait to see them race. He used to say I would love racing them round the track. After every race he came up to me and said "I loved that mate, it was like being back in the 80's, fantastic." The first time he watched my ThunderShot go round he said "Look at the driver, he's got the biggest grin on his face!"

But for every positive comment he gave me, there was always another put down by someone else unfortunately. Maybe it's my fault for not taking it seriously enough, I should have looked elsewhere for a club that just does bash abouts. Some of the races I've watched on YouTube with lunchboxes bouncing around everywhere look like a blast, you see everyone is laughing or has the biggest grin, no steely gazes or looks of frustration or determination. I know our local club also does this once in a blue moon but there are no real rules or limitations, I was told my brushless lunchbox could have gone up against the stock 27 turn motors no problem, and I was also told that whilst it was a Tamiya Big Wheels Races, my GF01 Dump truck was too big...so again I just thought ah whatever, maybe I need to find somewhere and compete more with people who just want a bit of fun, which Tamiya are meant to be for, not those who if they don't shave a few milliseconds off of their lap times consider the night a failure.

It's a shame that the experience was so negative for you mate.
Having said that I have found when popping into a club near me in Aus that the general populace had a higher incidence of people who weren't very socially adept, to the point of being a condition. So, to a point allowances should be made. I myself am one of those people, or close to it though I am ok in social situations, I can come across as very vague from time to time.

[ABigChungus 70]

4 minutes ago, Pablo68 said:

It's a shame that the experience was so negative for you mate.
Having said that I have found when popping into a club near me in Aus that the general populace had a higher incidence of people who weren't very socially adept, to the point of being a condition. So, to a point allowances should be made. I myself am one of those people, or close to it though I am ok in social situations, I can come across as very vague from time to time.

I understand that, I myself have Aspergers which of course, part of that is you take things very literally and at face value! I know, or I'd hope, that there is no real malice behind the comments made towards what I ran, but it was more the fact that they wanted people to attend with Tamiyas and yet had no problem slating them that disappointed me. After all, to say something is s**t to someone's face, I mean that's a bit beyond saying something like have you looked at higher spec machines. I know part of my Aspergers is that you do take put downs a bit more personally or take them more to heart, but again it did kind of feel like it was going a bit beyond the basic teasing at times when I thought clubs didn't really care what you ran as long as people turned up.

[GTodd 1555]

99 percent of Tamiya aren't good at racing because they were never meant for racing.  Hornets, DT-02s, BigWigs, Aero Avantes, Clod busters, etc were meant to be just fun.  The early race cars (Astute and Avante) weren't good race cars due to complexity, and weaknesses in their materials. Evolutions of those cares made them better for the club (Super Astute, Egress) but weren't up to the level of their contemporaries.  The Top Force and Dyna Storm were/are actually pretty good race buggies but came at a time when their design philosophies were  moving on.  Lastly until the 2000s Tamiya never had a large race team providing feedback to the engineers and advertising on a large scale what their cars could do. 

For whatever reason in the early 2000s Tamiya jumped in with both feet and created a very competitive line of TRF 1/8 and 1/10 buggies that were just as good as your AE, Losi, etc.  It was a good time with everything from different levels of hardness for suspension arms and wheels, tire compound, to upgrade chassis parts for buggies based on feedback from team drivers. 

Remember, Tamiya's moto used to be models that you could drive. Not race cars to win races.