Avante 2011 gear ratios?

[Ty89m]

I'm looking through my Avante 2011 Black manual and can't find anything on the gear ratios. Am I overlooking something? Is Tamiya typically omitting that information on their vintage re-release cars? According to some online sources the FDR is 8.33:1, but it would be nice to know the internal ratio (I can attempt to calculate once I unbox the kit, but a lot is going on with the drive train in this kit).

Does anyone have a gearing chart or know the internal gear ratio? I'll manually count the teeth on the spur to get the pinion/spur ratio.

Thanks!

[GTodd]

I haven't built a rere Avante, I know the OG has ratios and recommended gears for the Tamiya motors. I could've sworn my Egress had a rec, checking .....

[GTodd]

Ok I am wrong. No gear ratios in the rere Egress manual either.

[Twinfan]

Sorry - didn't read the thread properly! 

I've seen them somewhere, are they in the 2011 Avante manual? Or regular Egress manual?

They may be in the vintage manual(s) if you can find PDFs online.

[Ty89m]

6 hours ago, Twinfan said:

Sorry - didn't read the thread properly! 

I've seen them somewhere, are they in the 2011 Avante manual? Or regular Egress manual?

They may be in the vintage manual(s) if you can find PDFs online.

Tamiya base says the lowest ratio is 8.33:1, but no charts in my manual. I'll see if I can find the vintage manual.

I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to calculating internal ratios, especially with the over-engineered (but super cool) Avante gearing, but I ended up with an internal ratio of 2.78:1. I just counted the teeth on the spur (drive gear in manual), and worked backward using the 8.33:1 FDR with stock 22T pinion.

I'll be running the included brushed motor and stock pinion, so not a big deal, but it would be nice to know if/when I try using a brushless setup in it.

[GTodd]

29 minutes ago, Ty89m said:

Tamiya base says the lowest ratio is 8.33:1, but no charts in my manual. I'll see if I can find the vintage manual.

I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to calculating internal ratios, especially with the over-engineered (but super cool) Avante gearing, but I ended up with an internal ratio of 2.78:1. I just counted the teeth on the spur (drive gear in manual), and worked backward using the 8.33:1 FDR with stock 22T pinion.

I'll be running the included brushed motor and stock pinion, so not a big deal, but it would be nice to know if/when I try using a brushless setup in it.

Just go by motor temp and run time, if the motor is burning hot after a few minutes you have too much pinion. If the motor stays cools and your run times are very high go up a tooth. 

[Ty89m]

16 minutes ago, GTodd said:

Just go by motor temp and run time, if the motor is burning hot after a few minutes you have too much pinion. If the motor stays cools and your run times are very high go up a tooth. 

Yup, that's plan B. I just thought it was interesting that the manual lacked any gearing information considering how thorough the rest of the manual is.

[Ty89m]

7 hours ago, Twinfan said:

Sorry - didn't read the thread properly! 

I've seen them somewhere, are they in the 2011 Avante manual? Or regular Egress manual?

They may be in the vintage manual(s) if you can find PDFs online.

I think I found a scan of the original manual and it's nearly identical to the re-release. All good! I mainly purchased it for the build as it looks super interesting. It's an entirely different vibe than the other kits I've purchased recently.

[GTodd]

22 minutes ago, Ty89m said:

Yup, that's plan B. I just thought it was interesting that the manual lacked any gearing information considering how thorough the rest of the manual is.

It is very odd the fear ratios aren't provided!

[Twinfan]

They're definitely in a manual somewhere, I've seen them and have a .jpg with them on my laptop!

[Ty89m]

53 minutes ago, Twinfan said:

They're definitely in a manual somewhere, I've seen them and have a .jpg with them on my laptop!

This one for the Egress? I didn't realize the two were so similar. The ratio on the 22t pinion is slightly different than what I and others have calculated, but it's close enough. Now I wonder which manual this originated from. Regardless, I'll save a copy for myself.

[Twinfan]

That's the pic I have, and it says where it's from in the text - the Avante 2001!

[Ty89m]

1 hour ago, Twinfan said:

That's the pic I have, and it says where it's from in the text - the Avante 2001!

Doh! It might be time to give my glasses prescription an update ha! Thanks.

[Clint74]

On 7/13/2024 at 9:25 PM, Ty89m said:

This one for the Egress? I didn't realize the two were so similar. The ratio on the 22t pinion is slightly different than what I and others have calculated, but it's close enough. Now I wonder which manual this originated from. Regardless, I'll save a copy for myself.

I'm sorry but I really don't get the suggested fear ratios...

It says:

Technigold (lees powerful) 20T pinion.

Dynatech 01R (medium power) 18T pinion.

Dynatech 02H (most powerful) 14T pinion.

This means the most powerful motor gets the highest gear ratio (more reduction)????

Isn't this supposed to be the other way around?
With more power you can pull a taller gear ratio (lower ratio, less reduction and more speed) ?

This really seems the wrong way round....

Am I missing something? is Tamiya aiming for the same top speed but more acceleration? I'm confused!

I currently have an Avante with stock 22T pinion and a Dynatech 01R....I just got a Super stock BZ and was thinking 23 or 24T (if it fits!).....

[Twinfan]

Yes, you're missing something 

Remember these are for old brushed motors who make their power with high revs. You need a lower gear ratio for the motor to be able to reach those revs 

According to Tamiya, a BZ can use a 20T, which will give it the fastest top speed it can achieve (surface dependant) and acceleration will be compromised.

[Clint74]

1 hour ago, Twinfan said:

Yes, you're missing something 

Remember these are for old brushed motors who make their power with high revs. You need a lower gear ratio for the motor to be able to reach those revs 

According to Tamiya, a BZ can use a 20T, which will give it the fastest top speed it can achieve (surface dependant) and acceleration will be compromised.

Sorry but I still don't get it.

Now I have checked the Avante 2001 manual from which this is taken, it has exactly the same gearbox as my 1988 Avante, same spur gear but smaller pinion, 20T. Final gear ratio is unknown to me...

Mine came with 22T with the Technigold motor (so 2 more teeth on the same gearbox/motor combo...maybe there'a difference in the transmission down the line between 1988 and 2001.....)

Anyway if you have a more powerful motor you can run a taller gear (bigger pinion) so you can go faster, that is usually the point! If you run a smaller pinion you will lose top speed and gain accelleration....

Now taking into consideration this:

Technigold - 19000 rpm, 430 g/cm 20T.

Dynatech 02H 29000 rpm, 413 g/cm 14T.

Basically we have a 30% gear ratio difference and a 33% rpm difference that approximately cancel out each other leaving us with a very similar top speed and improved acceleration, consider torque is nearly equal.

I still don't understand why Tamiya would suggest these gear ratios unless they want to keep a similar top speed and get there quicker.... which still (for me) defies the point of a more powerful motor in the first place which usually implies also more top speed....

 

As I said I originally had a Technigold and then upgraded to the Dynatech keeping the same 22T the car had greater top speed and accelleration...so it defies both my logic and practical outcome, unless you want to maintain that top speed for a specific reason, remember electric motors have max torque a 0 rpm....

If i went up 30% in gear ratio (smaller pinion) as suggested when I changed motor I would have had a screamer more than a runner......

 

[Twinfan]

The point is that the motor that revs more sacrifices torque low down for power up top, so it can't pull a tall gearing. It'll just overheat the ESC and motor 

Greater acceleration is useful in off road racing, less so higher top speed, which is what these motors were developed for.

[Thommo]

9 hours ago, Clint74 said:

Anyway if you have a more powerful motor you can run a taller gear (bigger pinion) so you can go faster, that is usually the point! If you run a smaller pinion you will lose top speed and gain accelleration....

 

Not quite….  If you have a higher rpm motor with more torque you can run a taller gear ratio and go faster.  Brushless motors for example, this is the case.

if you have a high rpm motor with similar torque, you should gear down with a smaller pinion to optimise the power of the motor which keeps the motor temp down.

Note Tamiya use “HOT” warning stickers on all electric models.  They can’t suggest gear ratios that raise the motor temp.  Then they would need a “MORE HOT” sticker. 🔥