DT-02 Sand Viper

[skom25 1892]

Hi,

After more or less two months, I finally decided to buy DT-02 Sand Viper. 

I had DT-03, but I sold it. I liked it a lot, but chassis design and available bodies were not very interesting.

When I saw Sand Viper in LHS, I immediatelly started to feel that I want it. Kit contains bearings, steel drivetrain elements etc. Very good kit for 90 Euros.

Most important is fact, that... body and wing looks so great. At least for me, it is one of the best looking Tamiya kits.

Together with kit, I bought:

- Adjustable turnbuckles set

- Light gearbox shafts

- Steel Pinion 19T

- 3x22 suspension shaft

I also have quite a lot new/ used elements from other builds, which I will use here.

As during my previous builds, I will use hex stainless machine screws.

First question to audience:

Is there anything I should know, before I start build? Any Tips?

 

[Otis311 265]

2 hours ago, skom25 said:

Most important is fact, that... body and wing looks so great. At least for me, it is one of the best looking Tamiya kits.

Couldn't agree more.

You mention the 3x22mm shafts. You'll need 4 total, 2 for the king pins in the front knuckles and 2 for the outer front lowers. TL-01stainless steel suspension shafts all around are always a good hop-up but, some of the shafts are too long and require shimming to be properly centered and not rub on the inside of the rear wheels. Maybe use a U shaped shaft for the lower front inners as is used on the DT-03. This is all probably obvious to you as the suspension is nearly identical to the DT-03.

Maybe some balls to replace the step screws for mounting the shocks.

[skom25 1892]

Thank you @Otis311!

All you wrote about is covered by...

10 hours ago, skom25 said:

I also have quite a lot new/ used elements from other builds, which I will use here.

It was too many things to mention, especially that I even do not remember what I can use. Few things which I will use for 100%, except those you wrote already:

- Aluminium DF-03/TT-02B shocks 

- Hard Hex Ball Connectors

- Aluminium Hexes with screw

- High Torque Servo Saver

I checked manual, looked at parts and I think Servo Mount can be "weak" point. I will think about this.

[chris.alex 1077]

On my DT02 Desert Gator, the shock tower support (from Carson) was a worthwhile investment.

[Kowalski86 4076]

19 hours ago, skom25 said:

.Most important is fact, that... body and wing looks so great. At least for me, it is one of the best Tamiya kits.

There, I fixed that for you!

My only recommendation is something to beef up the front shock tower, a good servo, and a set of cheap wheels/tires for asphalt. The DT02 doesn't really need anything extra. If you find it too rear heavy just add some sticky weights to the front end.

Also, I'd reccomend either a 550 motor or something brushless, since the stock motor mount doesn't really dissipate heat or let your motor breath.

[Pylon80 3422]

If you haven't seen it already, TheRCRacer's article is definitely worth a read: https://www.thercracer.com/2013/10/tamiya-dt02-guide-mods-tuning-and-tips.html

And I agree about that shell being much nicer than the DT-03's

Looking forward to this project.

[skom25 1892]

2 hours ago, chris.alex said:

On my DT02 Desert Gator, the shock tower support (from Carson) was a worthwhile investment.

I am looking for it, but it seems that availibility is rather poor. If I find manual for Carbon Shock Towers, I will use Turnbuckle to connect both sides. I just need to find how it is done by Tamiya.

2 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

There, I fixed that for you!

My only recommendation is something to beef up the front shock tower, a good servo, and a set of cheap wheels/tires for asphalt. The DT02 doesn't really need anything extra. If you find it too rear heavy just add some sticky weights to the front end.

Also, I'd reccomend either a 550 motor or something brushless, since the stock motor mount doesn't really dissipate heat or let your motor breath.

Motor is still open case. Probably I will go for rather slow brushed motor, but I also consider brushless. I am not sure. Electronics is always last part for me, so I have some time.

3 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

If you haven't seen it already, TheRCRacer's article is definitely worth a read: https://www.thercracer.com/2013/10/tamiya-dt02-guide-mods-tuning-and-tips.html

And I agree about that shell being much nicer than the DT-03's

Looking forward to this project.

Thank you!

[chris.alex 1077]

One more thought: If I were to build a DT02 again, I would go without the camber turnbuckles. Instead, I would use the upper arms from the kit. I have never adjusted the camber on my DT02 in many years. In my humble opinion they are more useful in on-road cars. 

[skom25 1892]

8 hours ago, chris.alex said:

One more thought: If I were to build a DT02 again, I would go without the camber turnbuckles. Instead, I would use the upper arms from the kit. I have never adjusted the camber on my DT02 in many years. In my humble opinion they are more useful in on-road cars. 

Obviously, I cannot tell it about DT-02 now, but adjustable suspension really improved handling of DT-03.

I am also not sure, if standard arms are in kit.

Thank you for all replies! First update... next week 😉 I am on vacation now, but really wanted to share my new Build with you!

[matisse 1607]

Go Big or go home.

turnbuckles, a front tower brace, ABEC5 bearings, Ball Diff, HCCA diff balls, DF03 front and rear arms and hubs.

[CRC505 185]

 

The DT02 sand viper feels very good value for money. I think it would be much more convenient if I could switch to a universal hexagonal joint for the front wheel.

[matisse 1607]

5 hours ago, CRC505 said:

 

The DT02 sand viper feels very good value for money. I think it would be much more convenient if I could switch to a universal hexagonal joint for the front wheel.

Plenty of options for this, there is a whole thread of them 

You could always make a DT02X

[CRC505 185]

7 hours ago, matisse said:

Plenty of options for this, there is a whole thread of them 

You could always make a DT02X

This is awesome, I just needed this, thanks for sharing!

[Kowalski86 4076]

On 7/17/2024 at 3:15 PM, chris.alex said:

One more thought: If I were to build a DT02 again, I would go without the camber turnbuckles. Instead, I would use the upper arms from the kit. I have never adjusted the camber on my DT02 in many years. In my humble opinion they are more useful in on-road cars. 

Truth be told adjustable turnbuckles look nice and feel more "premium", but I find myself preferring fixed links for regular use. It's just less trouble to worry about.

[matisse 1607]

1 hour ago, CRC505 said:

This is awesome, I just needed this, thanks for sharing!

No worries.

built a few DT’s over the years and tried a whole lot of stuff to improve them. 

[skom25 1892]

Update:

I cut all plastic parts from sprues and sorted metal parts. I am surprised or I should say, I forgot how few parts are in box. It is totally different experience, compared to e.g. XV-01. I am not fully sure, but I think DT-02 has even less parts than DT-03. It is fully fine for me, because I think simple = better.

First impressions:

Holes in chassis are very deep. It is good info, because I can form threads and use even longer screws than in kit.

Design is very clever. I see some areas where DT-03 is better, but overall, seems to be very nice and simple kit.

As I expected, Servo mounts are probably the worst part of the kit. I ordered Aluminium version on Amazon. Surprisingly, it was around 30% cheaper than in my LHS. I have no idea how it works, but from time to time I check Amazon, because random parts just appear and in many cases, they are in very good prices.

Now I will check manual once again and make a list, which extra parts I need. I want to avoid situation, when I build car and have to order parts/ go to shop few times per week. 

Two lessons already learned:

#1 Do not throw away spare parts, even if you think you will never use them. Exactly one week ago, I threw away sprue with parts from High Torque Servo Saver. Yes, now I need one part from that sprue 

#2 Check kit before you buy anything. I bought light gearbox shafts, which are... in kit. Of course it is good to have spares, but I do not think that I will ever need them. Small mistake, because they are cheap, less than 2 Euros.

 

[skom25 1892]

@matisse I saw Topics with DT-02 upgrades. They are great!

If I decide to use DF-03 rear arms, which parts I will need?

Arms #51252

Uprights #51251

What about length of turnbuckles? 

Do I need anything else?

[skom25 1892]

Update:

Front is ready. I used stainless shafts in arms, hubs and uprights. Nothing new if you are familiar with DT-02/3. As always, I tapped all holes and will use machine screws.

To remove some slope, I used 0.2 mm shims between arms and shock tower, 0.1 mm between arms and hubs, 0.5 mm spacer between hub and upright. I put it below upright, so there is no mechanical difference compared to stock version. I just removed slope which you can feel if you pick up car.

On top of upright I added 1.5 mm aluminium spacer, to reduce shaft movement.

I also decided to maybe not avoid Blue elements, but definitely reduce them. Probably I will be banned after this sentence, but I started to be bit bored with "Blue everywhere".

Probably I will also add brace on front tower. I do not have dedicated part, so will use turnbuckle with ball connectors.

As much as I do not want to use kit "screwed" suspension arms shafts, it seems that I do not have choice on rear. I do not want to modify chassis or swap for DF-03 arms, which requires bit more parts than I can accept.

[cstorckiii 371]

54613 shaft set has the larger sizes you'll need for the rear arms.

[skom25 1892]

I have that set, but there is no space to use them. DF-03 arms are smaller, so there is a bit of space. Standard arms are wider, so you need to cut chassis to fit them. I do not want to do this.

[alvinlwh 7052]

There are other shaft lengths, just need to look beyond Tamiya. These shafts are not even an unique RC or modeling item but a common industrial/engineering item.

[skom25 1892]

There is like 1 mm between arm and chassis. It is not issue with shaft length. It was not designed to use e-clip shafts. It was improved in DT-03, which has much more space.

I will show you that space, when gearbox will be ready.

[skom25 1892]

Update:

Last few days were quite hard, because of private life issues. I was not in the mood to take hundred of photos during each step. I just wanted to sit and "Turn Off" for a while. Because of that, I will show you current state of build with basic description.

Front part is almost ready. I used 8 mm long Hard Hex Ball Connectors as a shock mounts. On rear of front shock tower, you can see the same connectors which will be used to mount brace.

The same connectors were used in rear shock tower. In terms of gearbox, I do not have anything new to add. Super simple, easy to assembly. In Diff I used ceramic grease. I had plan to use AW Grease, but quite loose diff should be better on asphalt with not too powerful motor. At least I hope

Arms are still not attached, because I have not decided what to do. I prefer stainless shafts with e-clip, but installation is not possible without major modifications, so it seems that I do not have choice.

Maybe you have noticed, that I used Tamiya Hex Machine Screws. I bought "normal" machine screws, but heads are just a bit larger than Tamiya ones. It is like 0.1 mm or even less and heads are not perfectly centered. It does not sound like an big issue, but in fact it is. There are few places, where holes in parts are so small, that even mentioned imperfections cause issues and screw cannot be fully tightened.

Set of Tamiya screws were surprisingly inexpensive. It was not cheap, but it was not bag of money that I expected. Good thing is that they look really nice and slots are so tight, that there is almost no movement between screw and key.

As I wrote before, I do not want to go crazy with Blue parts, so I added only small details. There will be few more, but nothing crazy.

Questions!

Sway Bars: I bought DT-03 set, because DT-02 is not available. I cannot use sway bar on front, but I can use it on rear. My goal is to reduce understeer. Should I install it on rear? Soft or Hard? I will run it on asphalt.

 

[skom25 1892]

Update:

Despite I wrote "No" in previous posts, I decided to modify chassis to fit stainless shafts on rear arms. I was bit scared, but then I realized that it is just a toy and I can replace 5$ chassis in minutes. I attached gearbox to chassis and used arms mounts, as a guide where I should make holes. Plan was good, but I used only two screws to install gearbox, at that was mistake. I should use all screws. Not end of the world, but drilled places are bigger that I thought.

Finish is not perfect and despite it is totally not visible when gearbox is installed, I will use abrasive ball to smooth edges. I just need to wait for package.

Then everything went really fast. I installed Servo with white High Torque Servo Saver ( black was not available  ). On front of the Servo Saver, I used Blue Aluminium Cap. Bit a shame, that I had to use that strange Ball Connectors with 2 mm thread. I do not like them, but there was no choice. Servo probably will be replaced with SRT DL3017.

On rear, I installed Soft Sway Bar. I removed paint, to match rest of steel elements. Despite it is not high end car, it looks like it without all that "Bling" stuff.

However, I need to come back to Sway Bar mount. I used the same set in DT-03 and Sway Bar was bit loose, but not so much as in DT-02. I will remove gearbox and probably use grub screws, to limit Sway Bar movement a bit.

As you can see, it is almost done, but there are still a lot of smaller or bigger things to do. I wanted to build it and then find spots which need to be improved.

BTW:

During build I started to think about design. It is really great, simple, not too many parts, there is less slope than I expected. What happened to Tamiya, that instead of kits like that, we get "Monsters" like TD2/4, XV-01 etc. which are super complicated and not very friendly in terms of maintenance or very bad cars like BT-01? TT-02 is also quite old chassis but there is nothing to replace it. Instead of new solutions, Tamiya prefer to release again and again the same cars from 90s...

[wtcc5 5572]

That's my thinking too. The DT-02 with some minor changes and/or hop-ups front and rear has the potential to be the perfect little inexpensive buggy. What I despise design wise is the rear hub design. Why so bulky Tamiya? For my build I combined the TD4 swing shafts with the Astute hubs to get rid of the original hubs.