DT-02: Brushless?

[Twinfan 1796]

7 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

It's no quicker than a TT indeed. You were driving a Porsche in first gear and wondering why it was not any faster than a Beetle.

I was driving a Porsche with the Porsche recommended gearing 

Unless Tamiya have screwed up their recommended gearing to not overheat a TBLE ESC of course.....

[skom25 1719]

Reading all posts, I assume that if I will go for 10.5 TBLM, car will accelerate really fast, but Top Speed will be very limited. Correct?

@alvinlwh I found FlySky set you mentioned, but it will not fit DT-02/3. I need motor with cables at back of the can. Bit annoying, because this set looks really nice.

[Twinfan 1796]

2 hours ago, skom25 said:

Reading all posts, I assume that if I will go for 10.5 TBLM, car will accelerate really fast, but Top Speed will be very limited. Correct?

3370Kv and 7.2v NiMH is 24,264rpm

Top speed should be pretty good, that's pretty close to a Super Stock motor.

[skom25 1719]

Ok, in that case, one more thing because I think it was missed in discussion.

TBLM 10.5

HW10BL120

NiMh

Should be totally fine or I can expect some power related issues?

[Twinfan 1796]

Perfectly fine, just set the Start Mode (punch) to the lowest setting.

[Pylon80 3317]

@skom25 this will give you a general idea of the speed you could expect from a 13.5 motor on a DT-03 (same gearing and rear tire diameter as your DT-02 as you know):

 

[skom25 1719]

@Pylon80 it looks fast... to be honest, even too fast.

Of course, it is nice to have a lot of power, but I am afraid that I will fall into a trap as with TT-02. It is great to have 40 km/h+ car, but a lot of space is needed to run it. Because of that, I run my TT-02 once per week for 20 - 30 minutes, when car parks are empty on Sunday. I do not want to make this mistake again. I even started to rebuild TT-02, to use much higher gearing.

If not 10.5T, I can choose 15.5T. At this point, next question appears: is it worth all that money?

I have at least one used and one brand HW1060. I also have Sport Tuned motor and two or three Torque Tuned.

It is hard decision. I know advantages of Brushless, but at the same time I know that system will be limited by NiMh and Brushed equipment will stay in the box ( read: waste of money).

[Andreas W 2155]

I don't think it would be that zippy as in the vid on NiHm. Top speed comparable with a SS, but with more torque. There's no shame to dial it down . 

 

TBLM 10,5t and Hobbywing 10bl120 is the same setup that BuggyDad has been running for a couple of years now. He is perfectly happy with it. You will be happy with how much cooler it is going to run. Even though it would be nice, fun and maintainence free on a ST at some point it is even nicer to take the next step and have the same simple maintainence,  SS performance and no heat issues. 

 

If you are not happy with it the combo can be moved over in your brilliantly built XV-01. Subscribe at Dario RC on YT and get inspired. BuggyDad is running that combo in his XV-01 as well. 

 

Now just push these buy-buttons and have a nice weekend . 

[skom25 1719]

@BuggyDad any comments on that? Have you ran it on LiPo or NiMh?

[Andreas W 2155]

2 hours ago, skom25 said:

@BuggyDad any comments on that? Have you ran it on LiPo or NiMh?

He is a LiPo-boy. (That's a paraphrase to a friend of mine in the norwegian VW scene, who drove a VW Lupo and called himself that on the big internet. I couldn't hold it).

[Pylon80 3317]

I say, stop messing with the DT and run that superb XV-01, it'll beat the [very bad word] daylight out of the DT on pavement all day long. And I second @Andreas W about checking out Dario RC Garage and getting inspired 😁

[skom25 1719]

1 hour ago, Pylon80 said:

I say, stop messing with the DT and run that superb XV-01, it'll beat the [very bad word] daylight out of the DT on pavement all day long. And I second @Andreas W about checking out Dario RC Garage and getting inspired 😁

I do not know why, but there is always a good reason to not finish XV-01 and do something else.

[Pylon80 3317]

38 minutes ago, skom25 said:

I do not know why, but there is always a good reason to not finish XV-01 and do something else.

Sometimes this is how we function. But I think the first drive will completely change how you view the XV.

[Kowalski86 3983]

19 hours ago, skom25 said:

I know advantages of Brushless, but at the same time I know that system will be limited by NiMh and Brushed equipment will stay in the box ( read: waste of money).

It comes down to what you want out of a brushless setup. I find that most Tamiyas are fine on brushed motors, they're light and they can still be fun with cheap silver cans/NiMH.

Bigger, heavier "basher" RCs that run low turn brushed motors benefit more from brushless. Low turn motors are fast but usually run hot and wear out quickly.

Some brushless combos play nice with NiMH, others can cause brown outs. The only setup that's given me issues is a Veleneon/3500kv 550 can, but I'm not a fan of most RTR electronics to begin with.

[BuggyDad 5310]

On 8/2/2024 at 8:12 AM, skom25 said:

@BuggyDad any comments on that? Have you ran it on LiPo or NiMh? 

I run 10.5T brushless in mine with 10BL120. On LiPo. We have put NiMhs in them and not experienced any problems doing so but it's a long time since I've done it and I can't remember, nor could I quantify, how much slower. I don't remember thinking that NiMh made brushless pointless, more that it just slowed down any motor I put it on by comparison with LiPo. 

[Howards 586]

10.5 with good gearing with lipo or nimh will be pretty spicy in a 2wd.

 

The kv rating is somewhat misleading as most common esc - including the 120bl - will apply some advanced timing by default. You can then extract even more ooomph from it by messing with the esc settings in exchange for a little more heat. 
 

I run the 1060bl (!) and the Tamiya 10.5 in my td4 and never felt it lacking in the straight line speed department. 
 

the reduction in speed you might feel with a nimh is probably the reduction in power to weight. 

[skom25 1719]

If I am not wrong, wires can be removed from TBLM, right? What kind of connector is used there? Something standard?

10BL120 wires seems to be very long and I wonder, if it is possible to solder connectors to ESC and plug it directly to motor.

Edit: I found answer.

[skom25 1719]

Will 10BL60 be enough form TBLM 10.5?

It looks much better in terms of fitment to chassis, which is not designed for Brushless systems. Output and Input wires are on opposite sides, connectors are soldered ( less work for me).

I think answer is: Yes, because TBLE-02 ESC is 60A too and it works with 10.5 TBLM, but I need confirmation.

[Twinfan 1796]

Motor Limit - 4-6 cells NiMH/ 2S Lipo
8.5T(1/10 On-road), 13.5T(1/10 Off-road)

I'd say no, based on the specs.

[BuggyDad 5310]

I run 10Bl60 with TBLM10.5T in my XV-01. I guess it's an application that doesn't ask so much of it, since nothing's ever got hot. Maybe that's gearing. But anyway, it's been fine there and done some decent mileage. I've wondered before - why the on vs off road spec difference, if the electronics are the same and gearing adjustable? 

I think I might have this same combo in something else too, and that'll be off road, but I can't remember what... 

[Twinfan 1796]

I guess it's the additional load of grass/sand/dirt versus tarmac that means the resistance to putting the power down is larger.

I'm sure it'll run OK, but you are on the limit of the ESC as per the specs.

Knowing how skom25 is, I'm not sure if he'd be happy with that  

[Howards 586]

4 hours ago, skom25 said:

Will 10BL60 be enough form TBLM 10.5?

My experience with 4WD off road astro and carpet racing is yes, if you stick to the out of the box timing on the motor and ESC. 

I mean, you can get the Tamiya TBLE 02S to run the 10.5 if you stick a fan on it.

[alvinlwh 6875]

5 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

I've wondered before - why the on vs off road spec difference

I wondered the same before, in my case, with the SkyRC TS50 which states 8.5T on, 11.5T off.

So I got myself a 9.5T and a 8.5T and will stick them into something off road to experiment with to see what will happen.

Given the limited and rather safe gearing of the DTs, I doubt it will do much harm.

[Pylon80 3317]

1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

Given the limited and rather safe gearing of the DTs, I doubt it will do much harm.

Agree. Plus you can always set the timing to 0 (you should actually) and it'll still be very fast while pulling mild currents.

I like these threads, reads like a series. We should make bets on the final choice of motor and ESC too 😜

My bet: the OP will circle back to the 120, the motor will be the TBLM 10.5 and I see another thread to switch to lipo in 6 months!

[BuggyDad 5310]

31 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

Agree. Plus you can always set the timing to 0 (you should actually) and it'll still be very fast while pulling mild currents.

I like these threads, reads like a series. We should make bets on the final choice of motor and ESC too 😜

My bet: the OP will circle back to the 120, the motor will be the TBLM 10.5 and I see another thread to switch to lipo in 6 months!

For me at least, the cost saving of getting the 60 over the 120 has been very small, so the couple of 60s I have were really only about squeezing them into small spaces (XV-01), there's little other justification. I think all mine are left on 0 timing, simply because I don't need more speed and I like efficiency and to minimise heat. On our DT-03s, a bit of motor heat is generated simply because they tear around at full gas. On everything else it's short bursts for tracks and the like so much less sustained power. 

So yeah, I agree with your bet, but for the sake of being different I'm going for TBLM10.5, 120 but sticking with NiMh to make sure he doesn't have to talk to the wife about the potential for fires.