DT-02: Brushless?

[alvinlwh 6875]

50 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

My bet: the OP will circle back to the 120

 

11 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

only about squeezing them into small spaces

TBH, if space is a concern, nothing beats rhe TS50. But I think @Pylon80's bet is correct. The 120 had already been decided long ago, just as the TBLM.

[Pylon80 3317]

6 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

For me at least, the cost saving of getting the 60 over the 120 has been very small, so the couple of 60s I have were really only about squeezing them into small spaces (XV-01), there's little other justification. I think all mine are left on 0 timing, simply because I don't need more speed and I like efficiency and to minimise heat. On our DT-03s, a bit of motor heat is generated simply because they tear around at full gas. On everything else it's short bursts for tracks and the like so much less sustained power. 

So yeah, I agree with your bet, but for the sake of being different I'm going for TBLM10.5, 120 but sticking with NiMh to make sure he doesn't have to talk to the wife about the potential for fires. 

About the timing. On my M-05 I have the 17.5. Initially I left it at 0 and it was ok for postal but perhaps a tad slow when I wanted to run on a larger area. Then I set it to the middle notch and it's been absolutely awesome for both postal and larger. I have an XR10 in there so no additional timing from the speedo.

About temperature: the M-05 always ran stone could but I never used sustained power (why would you on an m-05 ). On the TT rally the 21.5 was cold too but it was only ever used for postal. Then, on the buggy the same 21.5 got hot even when trying a couple of runs in front of the house to check trims. Then at the track it quickly became evident that a fan was mandatory else I would damage it. There's a lot of sections where I am at full throttle if I want to hit the jumps, being a 21.5 only.

[Pylon80 3317]

4 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

 

TBH, if space is a concern, nothing beats rhe TS50. But I think @Pylon80's bet is correct. The 120 had already been decided long ago, just as the TBLM.

Always been intrigued by these. And they have the decency of being blue! 💙 

[skom25 1719]

6 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

 

TBH, if space is a concern, nothing beats rhe TS50. But I think @Pylon80's bet is correct. The 120 had already been decided long ago, just as the TBLM.

No!

I have not ordered anything and it seems that I will not go for Brushless in DT-02. Sorry guys!

However, I have an idea to go Brushless in TT-02.

TS50 is interesting and definitely will think about it. As I wrote, it will not fit DT-02, because of gearbox shape. That is why TBLM was my choice.

[alvinlwh 6875]

1 minute ago, skom25 said:

TS50 is interesting and definitely will think about it. As I wrote, it will not fit DT-02, because of gearbox shape.

You do not fit an ESC into a gearbox...

[skom25 1719]

I thought you wrote about TS50 set.

[Pylon80 3317]

52 minutes ago, skom25 said:

it seems that I will not go for Brushless in DT-02

That was my second choice, for the bet. We're teasing you @skom25 but that's all in good spirits. 

I do think that if you have a bunch of Torque Tuned motors lying around it makes sense to use these first.

[alvinlwh 6875]

16 minutes ago, skom25 said:

I thought you wrote about TS50 set.

A TS50 set means TS50 plus a motor.

A TS50 (without set) means just that, a TS50. 

What I said was this.

On 7/29/2024 at 12:23 PM, alvinlwh said:

The cheapest way to brushless I find is a Flysky TS50 with a Surpass Supersonic or Rocket V3. ~£50

I do not find TS50 sets a good value and will pair my TS50 with a Surpass (not sold as a set).

[alvinlwh 6875]

3 hours ago, skom25 said:

TS50 is interesting and definitely will think about it. As I wrote, it will not fit DT-02, because of gearbox shape. That is why TBLM was my choice.

For reference, a TS50 fits no problem in a DT-02 sized chassis. In fact, it is smaller than the 1040 I have in my actual DT-02.

While not precise, I think a bluebottle should fit.

So should a Rocket V3.

 

[Pylon80 3317]

@alvinlwh what's the buggy on the left of the picture, the one with the TS50 in it?

(by the way I never noticed the Camel slogan before, how could that have ever been legal?  no wonder they can't advertise anymore today)

[alvinlwh 6875]

2 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

@alvinlwh what's the buggy on the left of the picture, the one with the TS50 in it?

(by the way I never noticed the Camel slogan before, how could that have ever been legal?  no wonder they can't advertise anymore today)

It is this one.

https://www.lrp.cc/en/product/120411/

I built it right after I did my DT-02 and it seriously made the DT-02 felt like a toy.

The Camel sticker is from this sheet, from China obviously, where law doesn't apply. 🤣

 

[Pylon80 3317]

38 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

built it right after I did my DT-02 and it seriously made the DT-02 felt like a toy.

I thought it looked like a seriously modded DT-02 😅 Seems like a very good deal for the price (I just researched it) assuming it's available.

[skom25 1719]

8 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

That was my second choice, for the bet. We're teasing you @skom25 but that's all in good spirits. 

I do think that if you have a bunch of Torque Tuned motors lying around it makes sense to use these first.

At least now I know more about Brushless.

I had plan to buy set, but there are few factors:

- Motor and ESC are more expensive than I expected. Even mentioned TS50 is far from being cheap. Calculation is quite easy: one Brushless set is like two or three Brushed sets. Ifnwe consider only motor orice, difference is huge. If you are amateur like me and run RC once or twice per week for 2h in total, I am not sure if reliability of Brushless is so important to me.

- DT-02 chassis was not designed for Brushless. There is not too much space for all that wires. As you know, I like tidy wiring.

- After I ran TT-02 on usual place, I started to think that something more powerful than Sport Tuned, will be waste of money. I did that mistake before. TT-02, SS motor, 7.3 FDR. Lot of fun, but I ran it once per week or two for 15 minutes, because of no space. 

- DT-02 is bit... old. Speed = potential damage and I am no sure, that in a year I will get spares easily.

So as I wrote: Brushless? Definitely yes! When? Probably not this time.

I still have XV-01 and plan to build second TT-02 from spares. XV-01 with little too much power can be fun, but I will leave this for later.

[alvinlwh 6875]

4 hours ago, skom25 said:

expensive

Exactly!!! 

I had argued long and hard with a brushless fanboy about this single point. He will say (which is probably true) that brushless has no maintenance, better run time, better torque, etc...

But, is it worth 3 times the cost of brushed (3 times is for thr budget end stuff, the high end stuff can be 30 times!)? I doubt it. Furthermore, given my spread of cars, I can probably replace instead of maintain that brushed motor 3 times in my entire life and still be ahead in terms of spending.

I still have all these BNIB brushed motors waiting for cars that I do not have yet to go into.

However as @Kowalski86 said, most, especially the older Tamiyas, we're designed for silver cans and currently, I am enjoying them just as much on a silver can as they were intended.

Now, why do I also have some brushless setups? After a few years, I decided to experiment. So I dipped my toes in a few to try out on. However, given the very limited gearing (especially true for the DT), the main advantage, torque, of brushless is lost. The FDR needs to be nearly halved to take full advantage of a brushless system. Therefore, my brushless systems usually only goes into 'free gearing' chassis, most of them non Tamiyas. 

So just take it at your own pace, you can move onto brushless when you think the time is right.

[Twinfan 1796]

Totally agree @alvinlwh, I'm the same as you.

Plus RC is all about nostalgia for me - the sound of a brushed motor and the ease of maintenance of a NiMH pack suite me just fine!  

[Howards 586]

The fun ultra low cost version of this story is pairing a stock geared sliver can with a 3s lipo.  

[alvinlwh 6875]

16 minutes ago, Howards said:

The fun ultra low cost version of this story is pairing a stock geared sliver can with a 3s lipo.  

Ah, OP doesn't do lipo though.

[skom25 1719]

If you check area and way how I run my cars, you will find that I do not need too much power.

3 x 3300 NiMh packs with Torque Tuned are more than enough, to run for quite a long time.

I wanted to have Super Stock power without Super Stock heat, but definitely I can live with brushed alternative.

[Kowalski86 3983]

4 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

He will say (which is probably true) that brushless has no maintenance, better run time, better torque, etc...

I have a brushless can that I need to rebuild with some new bearings, they need still maintenance.

I find that most silver can (or any of their motors) Tamiyas work well for smaller areas, they're not so fast that I'll be hitting one of the dozen cars parked in my street, yet not too slow like running a crawler on flat ground.

Alot of today's giant, fast "bashers" are a bit clumsy in a casual "in front of my house" setup.

[Pylon80 3317]

9 hours ago, skom25 said:

If you are amateur like me and run RC once or twice per week for 2h in total, I am not sure if reliability of Brushless is so important to me.

What? You drive only a hundred hours a year? Dude you're not even in the game. All of us on this thread drive at least 4h a day. Sometimes we even set an alarm in the middle of the night to go drive our cars some more then go back to bed.

[alvinlwh 6875]

3 hours ago, Howards said:

The fun ultra low cost version of this story is pairing a stock geared sliver can with a 3s lipo.  

You bad man! Made I put a 3S into my DT-02. 😂

And the wee man is enjoying it. It wheelies, even on just storage charge!

[alvinlwh 6875]

10 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

Sometimes we even set an alarm in the middle of the night

Are yoy confusing late night toilet trips to RCing?

[Pylon80 3317]

1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

Are yoy confusing late night toilet trips to RCing?

I usually do one bathroom trip only (ya ya, that's TMI) and when I am in the middle of a modded build it can be hard to go back to sleep when my brain just want to find technical solutions!

[Howards 586]

2 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

It wheelies, even on just storage charge!

It's a lot of fun! I have this set up in my XV01 and oh my it's a riot. Especially as the basic Tamiya TBLE speedo handles it fine.

[ParticularSky 59]

On 8/8/2024 at 12:08 PM, skom25 said:

I wanted to have Super Stock power without Super Stock heat, but definitely I can live with brushed alternative.

For this small space a hotter brushed can is all you need. Core Rc 15T, Hpi Firebolt 15T, Absima Eco 18T, Holmes Retrosport 19T depends what your store has. They all go for around 10 max 15 bucks and spin double the rpm what a torque tuned does.

Have the absima eco 18 in a dt03, box stock 17 mph. Improvement to 25 mph on a 17 pinion. I didnt wanted the bump in power and possible breakage a brushless brings. Just a bit more to make it go better on the grass.