Why there are no TRF Buggies?

[skom25 2177]

Hi,

As in Topic. What happened that TRF Buggies do not exist anymore?

I see TRF On Road Cars, but any sign of Off Road.

It is real shame that there is TT-02BR which is rather bad and TD2/4 with awful design and even worse bodies.

[bRIBEGuy 3378]

Being expensive and fragile compared to the competition, while not performing as well and not selling well probably has something to do with it.

[Kowalski86 4270]

Alot of people buy a Tamiya because it's a small replica of a 1:1 car that they like, so they mostly focus on on-road cars. Not many of us own dune buggies.

Plus, expensive race kits don't bring in nearly as much money as cheap, basic bushing equipped kits. Racers only run the latest and greatest, and hobbyists prefer to buy in cheap and toss money into upgrades.

[Rinskie 1015]

I'm not an expert and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night but as my memory serves the last TRF buggy was just a metric copy of the then current RC10 with better shocks. I was racing a Kyosho RB6 when most every one else at the local track were running RC10's but one feller had a TRF buggy and while it was nice, it wasn't any nicer than the cheaper and more part friendly domestic buggies. If I were to ever race buggies again, I would only run what the majority of other folks at the track are running for the simple reason of tweaking a known set up is easier than developing one.   

[alvinlwh 7226]

I think @Rinskie nailed it on the head. Like most Tamiyas, expensive, no better than the rest = low sales. So they just stopped bothering with it as it is not making them money.m since only a handful of diehards that insist on the badge will want to pay for it. Eventually it just fades away into a distant memory. 

[GTodd 1569]

6 hours ago, bRIBEGuy said:

Being expensive and fragile compared to the competition, while not performing as well and not selling well probably has something to do with it.

None of this is true in the slightest, well the expensive part is true.  The 501/511/503 are quite robust and when they were released were very competitive with their peers.  

 

Why did they stop? Not sure. They stopped supporting their race teams likely due to the capital needed.  When they stopped developing the 501 range it's evolution the 503 was doing well.  The 502 didn't work for most drivers.  

The finances of supporting a team probably aren't worth Tamiyas $$$$$$.  

A shame really, it'd still buy and race the newest 5XX they could dream of. 

[Pablo68 1118]

I do remember Tamiya saying in writing something to the effect of, we are not an RC company. We are a plastic model company that makes RC's. Basically someone high up thought it wasn't the direction to be going in.

[GTodd 1569]

1 hour ago, Pablo68 said:

I do remember Tamiya saying in writing something to the effect of, we are not an RC company. We are a plastic model company that makes RC's. Basically someone high up thought it wasn't the direction to be going in.

I think I remember that too. In the early 2000s someone at Tamiya USA must've had the leaderships ear as they went full send on 1/8 gas, 1/10 buggies followed.   Tamiya was fully invested, different compound tires , different hardness wheels, different levels of stiffness suspension arms, upgrade kits for the chassis, etc. It was a fun time.

If you're not going racing Tamiya buggies are all that's left for fun build able cars that look scale and are fun to run

[Kowalski86 4270]

1 hour ago, Pablo68 said:

I do remember Tamiya saying in writing something to the effect of, we are not an RC company. We are a plastic model company that makes RC's. Basically someone high up thought it wasn't the direction to be going in.

From my understanding years and years ago during the slot car days, the hobby got way too serious in Japan and it eventually fizzled out.

This is probably why we don't get TRF buggies but we still get wheelie-popping tractors. If a hobby gets too "serious", it turns away newcomers.

Plus, Tamiya really is a model company first, Mini4wd second, and RC third. There's very little room for anything remotely "scale" in competitive off-road racing.

[skom25 2177]

I wrote "TRF" Buggies, but then realised it is even worse. Except of mentioned TD2/4 there are no other buggies, even on middle level.

It is bit sad to be honest, especially that there are quite a lot On Road/ Rally cars which are somewhere between Entry Level and TRF.

[hamtaro 101]

I guess buggies just don't sell in Japan.  The quote from tamiya about being a model company first is correct but that doesn't explain why they still have trf on road cars and very high spec non trf on road cars.  The only conclusions would be buggies  just don't sell there and on road do. Then add the cost to design carpet and dirt versions of buggies and spare parts etc it probably doesn't stack up in a financial way for them.  I think they might of got burned by the td2/4 to. No third party hop ups other than those that tamiya already offered really says alot  I think

[Kowalski86 4270]

3 hours ago, skom25 said:

I wrote "TRF" Buggies, but then realised it is even worse. Except of mentioned TD2/4 there are no other buggies, even on middle level.

Isn't the BBX technically a mid-level "retro" buggy?

[Kowalski86 4270]

.

[skom25 2177]

22 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

Isn't the BBX technically a mid-level "retro" buggy?

Oh! I totally forgot about it, probably because it is another weird Buggy.

To be honest, I have real problem to understand, why they designed monsters like TD2/4. Bodies are awful and chassis design is really strange.

At least there are so many parts available, that even entry level cars can be upgraded to a reasonable level.

[alvinlwh 7226]

No TRF buggies but don't worry, they have repackaged the TT-02B into TT-02BR. With luck, there will be a TT-02BRX next year.

[skom25 2177]

I wrote this above. They can even release TT-02BRRR ( like DB-01) but if they do not change almost whole suspension, it still will be like toy with blue fancy parts.

I have TT-02B in higher spec ( except of oil diffs) than BR version in parts.

[Killajb 1618]

There is healthy market for buggies here in Japan (Yokomo, Kyosho, Genova).  On the higher end of the scale, its either Yokomo, Associated, Xray or Schumacher mostly. 

I'm sure the minds at Tamiya could produce a modern buggy that would be competitive with the aforementioned brands, but probably not at a competitive price point.  

[Howards 641]

You can make the TD buggies competitive with those brands for club racing on a budget, at that point in your racing career where you aren't chasing every millisecond.

Ultimately, for racing, there's no point just being 'competitive' - you need to be 'better', which is close to impossible for Tamiya. Out Associating Associated will never be their #1 priority. 

[skom25 2177]

10 minutes ago, Howards said:

You can make the TD buggies competitive with those brands for club racing on a budget, at that point in your racing career where you aren't chasing every millisecond.

Ultimately, for racing, there's no point just being 'competitive' - you need to be 'better', which is close to impossible for Tamiya. Out Associating Associated will never be their #1 priority. 

I meant that TD2/4 seems to be good quality, but design is totally... Nevermind.

It is overengineered and bodies are ugly. It is like XV-01 in Buggies world. Probably it is fun to build, maybe even drive, but when it comes to service...

I know that some people do not know word "service" or use cars once per year on clean asphalt. However, if you want to use RC daily, TD2/4 seems to be like nightmare.

[Howards 641]

TD stuff is resilient in my experience, once you get it running sweetly you just don't touch it until the diffs need a rebuild. It's well sealed, better than most contemporary track orientated buggies. Getting in to it is involved, but his comes with the territory; you need a lot of hardware to hold things together for track orientated stuff; they need to withstand large impacts and high powered motors. 

Not sure Tamiya positioned it as an every day car (this is bashing, but sure you can race every night of the week if you can afford it!), but like I said before it's probably their most misunderstood release to date. 

[Kowalski86 4270]

2 hours ago, skom25 said:

It is overengineered and bodies are ugly. It is like XV-01 in Buggies world. Probably it is fun to build, maybe even drive, but when it comes to service...

Having just purchased another TT02, I wish I had gone down the XV01 instead.

Sure the XV01 is more annoying to work on, but it holds up better and it doesn't need as much servicing. The suspension balls, steering step screws, and other parts of the TT02 are starting to wear out after only a few runs.

Of course, other brands manage to combine simplicity and better materials.

Perhaps you should consider a Kyosho Dirtmaster? It's a bit like a DT02, except it's better in every way.

[BuggyGuy 1140]

Though there's no TRF buggy currently available - my TD2 is quicker than any of my other TRF buggies on astro/carpet.

 

[Raman36 1717]

On 8/16/2024 at 10:19 PM, GTodd said:

None of this is true in the slightest, well the expensive part is true.  The 501/511/503 are quite robust and when they were released were very competitive with their peers.  

 

Why did they stop? Not sure. They stopped supporting their race teams likely due to the capital needed.  When they stopped developing the 501 range it's evolution the 503 was doing well.  The 502 didn't work for most drivers.  

The finances of supporting a team probably aren't worth Tamiyas $$$$$$.  

A shame really, it'd still buy and race the newest 5XX they could dream of. 

Yes and No.. Your time line is a bit mixed up.  TRF on road and the team are on a different time line than the TRF off road and its team.  The introduction of the offroad buggies (TRF201, 501, 801) were the brain child of Tamiya USA.  They pushed for it and essentially designed it.  Tamiya hired drivers and attempted to compete in a very crowded and competitive field.  The whole project lasted roughly 2 years and they saw that the return on investment is not there, they closed shop in 2012 or so. 

The TRF onroad team continued for another 6 years up until 2018.. when Tamiya decided they had no more interest in having a team and sacked them.  They committed to continue to develop TRF chassis, yet have taken a back seat and let others innovate while they update and catch up. 

IMO there is no reason for Tamiya to release another TRF buggy.  The market for it is a merely a bunch of us here on TC.  The true off-road crowd would look at it and say its a knock off of the AE B7, shrug their shoulders and stick with what they know.  Kyosho who competed for far longer has given on competitive 1/10 off-road as well.  Mugen the new comer made a stellar buggy with the MSB1.. the offroad crowd again looks at it and says.. huh looks like an updated Losi.  I should know, I own the Mugen and get heckled all the time for not running a B7.   

[Howards 641]

Mmm the MSB1 is the nuts. The Agama looks fun too. 

[Rinskie 1015]

I was scanning through my old photos and I found my RB6. I didn't think I had many photos of it. This was my most top of the line buggy I've ever owned and kinda scratched my itch for racing. Even then, most folks at the local tracks were running Associated stuff. Vortex servos, Orion Lipo, Tekin motor and speed control, J Concepts wheels and tires.