Counter gear for the Frog?

[FC5687 18]

Can I use this gear for my Frog?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294791812760

 

[Kowalski86 4073]

I wouldn't use it, it'll just add weight and strain to an already tempermental gearbox. You should grab a MIP diff instead.

[Saito2 7319]

Not without replacing the diff gear (from a Blackfoot) as well. The smaller portion of the counter gear on a Frog is 18 tooth, The gear on Ebay listed, is 17 tooth. Personally, I'm not a fan of aluminum gear either.

 

[FC5687 18]

2 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Not without replacing the diff gear (from a Blackfoot) as well. The smaller portion of the counter gear on a Frog is 18 tooth, The gear on Ebay listed, is 17 tooth. Personally, I'm not a fan of aluminum gear either.

 

The MIP ball diff is 48T based on the info on their website

https://www.miponline.com/MIP-Super-Ball-Diff-48T-Gear-Tamiya-Blackfoot-Monster-Beetle-16211

It should matched well with 17T

I have the Thorp diff 4500 for Frog that is 47T, and I put it into my FAV. The FAV stock diff is 47T     

[FC5687 18]

4 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

I wouldn't use it, it'll just add weight and strain to an already tempermental gearbox. You should grab a MIP diff instead.

Is the gearbox that touchy??

I take your advice by using the MIP ball diff but it is 48T, so the 17T/52T alloy gear should work perfectly.

What about upgrade the gearbox to aluminum one. Shouldn't it cure the problem? 

[Frog Jumper 3813]

3 hours ago, FC5687 said:

Can I use this gear for my Frog?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294791812760

 

No the alloy gear is meant for the BF diff gear. 

[FC5687 18]

1 hour ago, Frog Jumper said:

No the alloy gear is meant for the BF diff gear. 

The MIP ball diff is 48T, and it is made for BF. the alloy gear is 17T/52T should work perfectly. 

[Saito2 7319]

5 hours ago, FC5687 said:

The MIP ball diff is 48T, and it is made for BF. the alloy gear is 17T/52T should work perfectly. 

Correct, those two pieces together would work.

Digging deeper, the counter gear is not known to be an issue of weakness in the ORV gearbox, rather the diff itself. The sideplates flex, allowing the diff gears to separate under load and skip, eventually causing damage. There are various methods of bracing the gearbox to hold the diff together. Simply replacing the whole diff with the MIP ball diff eliminates the issue entirely by nature of its self-contained design.

While I've never honestly used an aluminum countergear, my luck with aluminum pinions has been poor:

As evidenced by the aluminum pinion at the top with its saw-toothed, worn teeth, aluminum typically fairs worse than Tamiya's stock reinforced nylon gears in the wear department.

[Kowalski86 4073]

9 hours ago, FC5687 said:

What about upgrade the gearbox to aluminum one. Shouldn't it cure the problem? 

Nope, the nylon gears aren't the problem, very rarely do aluminum upgrades cure problems.

1 hour ago, Saito2 said:

While I've never honestly used an aluminum countergear, my luck with aluminum pinions has been poor:

As evidenced by the aluminum pinion at the top with its saw-toothed, worn teeth, aluminum typically fairs worse than Tamiya's stock reinforced nylon gears in the wear department.

Same experience here, the plastic gears will last for decades as long as they're not abused.

[JimBear 859]

Anybody who has had metal dust sprinkied all over their car, can attest to the quality of the cheese ... sorry, aluminium.

[FC5687 18]

6 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

Nope, the nylon gears aren't the problem, very rarely do aluminum upgrades cure problems.

Same experience here, the plastic gears will last for decades as long as they're not abused.

One thing I don't understand why MIP made a ball diff with 48T but not 47T for the Frog.

It forced me to use the BF counter gear that has 17T.

 

[FC5687 18]

7 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Correct, those two pieces together would work.

Digging deeper, the counter gear is not known to be an issue of weakness in the ORV gearbox, rather the diff itself. The sideplates flex, allowing the diff gears to separate under load and skip, eventually causing damage. There are various methods of bracing the gearbox to hold the diff together. Simply replacing the whole diff with the MIP ball diff eliminates the issue entirely by nature of its self-contained design.

While I've never honestly used an aluminum countergear, my luck with aluminum pinions has been poor:

As evidenced by the aluminum pinion at the top with its saw-toothed, worn teeth, aluminum typically fairs worse than Tamiya's stock reinforced nylon gears in the wear department.

Tamiya has made carbon reinforced plastic for BF counter gear?

[NUFCRc 119]

I have one of these in my blackfoot but after reading this I shall be taking it out. I will order the MIP super ball diff tomorrow. 

[Saito2 7319]

2 hours ago, FC5687 said:

amiya has made carbon reinforced plastic for BF counter gear?

Glass reinforced is what Tamiya's plastic gears are usually made from, but not carbon.

[FC5687 18]

I wonder what would happen if replacing the stock 47T diff and 18T/52T  counter gear with  48T diff and 17T/52T counter gear in the Frog transmission?

[Frog Jumper 3813]

12 minutes ago, FC5687 said:

I wonder what would happen if replacing the stock 47T diff and 18T/52T  counter gear with  48T diff and 17T/52T counter gear in the Frog transmission?

You would have a standard Blackfoot/Monster Beetle transmission...

 

 

Notes that I took for myself a few years ago:
----------------------------

Blackfoot Counter: 52T outer, 17T inner

Blackfoot Diff: 48T

Frog Counter 01: 49T outer, 18T inner (high speed)
Frog Counter 02: 50T outer, 18T inner (standard)
Frog Counter 03: 52T outer, 18T inner (Torque)

Frog Diff: 47T

Thorp Counter (standard): 52T outer, 18T inner (Thorp #4520)
Thorp Counter (overdrive):  48T outer, 18T inner  (Thorp #4530)

Thorp Diff: 47T (Throp #4506)

The Blackfoot Counter, the Frog Counter 03, and the Thorp Counter (standard) are all 52T and are the same diameter.  The Frog 50T is slightly smaller, with the 49T being smaller still...

The 18T Frog and the Thorp Counter inner gears are the same diameter. The 17T BF inner is slightly smaller...

The 47T Frog and the Thorp Diff are the same diameter, and the 48T BF is slightly larger.

The Frog and BF gears are the same thickness, and the Thorp are slightly thicker.

IMO, the Thorp system is a clone of the Frog stuff... and that the 17T is slightly smaller to accommodate the slightly larger 48T Diff on the BF... It solves the riddle of why each set of gears is marked with the car! You wouldn't want to put a BF Counter on a Frog Diff!

That said, the Thorp stuff should plug-and-play with the Frog stuff...

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[FC5687 18]

Well I stick with the stock gear then. Thanks to all 👍🙏