Why TC-01 is so unpopular?

[skom25 1908]

Hi,

Why TC-01 chassis is so unpopular? 

I checked today build video and it looks like really nice, simple chassis, made from high quality materials. There are even not too many Hop Ups, because it seems that it is really good straight from the box.

I like suspension adjustment solution. Few spacers which can be added/ removed in a seconds. At least from my perspective, it looks like really good mid level TC car.

In that case, why it is so unpopular? It is hard to find any build topics. I found only two kits available: Formula E and Mercedes CLK-GTR

[Badcrumble 4417]

If I recall correct it needs a nice smooth surface so doesn't suit the car park bashers like me.

And that Formula E bodywork looks a nightmare for a poor cutter and bang average painter like me.

Other than that, I'd love one. I found the chassis fascinating and loved the wishbone suspension. 

It is on in my dream list but I'm unlikely to get one as I'd never get to run it and shelters aren't a thing for me.

[skom25 1908]

1 minute ago, Badcrumble said:

If I recall correct it needs a nice smooth surface so doesn't suit the car park bashers like me

I thought about this too.

Formula E body is bit weird. Hard to find reason, to spent so much time to prepare it and then use as regular body. It does not make sense.

[JimBear 862]

3 minutes ago, Badcrumble said:

It is on in my dream list but I'm unlikely to get one as I'd never get to run it and shelters aren't a thing for me.

Shelters? As in "living in the doghouse for the next year because I happened to press the buy-it-now button"?

[Mad Ax 10140]

Here's my take - and it's just my take, based on my own personal experience and musings, I have no figures or facts to back any of this up.

I think the problem, like a lot of Tamiya cars, is that it sits in a market space all on its own, and more so, a market space that nobody really asked for and nobody is even sure they want.

The Formula E car is a great bit of packaging and it looks fab, and I think it's popular with collectors and people who want something different (there's an overlap with a lot of Tamiya fans), but as an actual car, its use is limited.

While it may be well designed and may perform well at club-level competitions, it's different enough that most racers wouldn't want to take a gamble on it.  In my experience, club racers want consistency and familiarity - most club racers will stick with well-known chassis from well-known brands.  The TC-01 is an odd-ball and whoever races it will have to learn how to set it up.  A friend of mine raced one at his local club a couple of years back, and I think he ultimately found it to be a good car, but it took a while to figure out the setup because there was no baseline to go from.  And he is a very fast racer and very good at car setup, he's a sponsored Tamiya driver and races at national level.  In my experience, your average club racer isn't going to want to invest time and effort in an oddball unless they fancy a particular challenge.

Tamiya seems to excel in making chassis that would be really, really good for a one-make race series - I don't know if they had a TC-01 class in Japan, but I've never seen one over here.  Again, most people don't want to throw money at a new chassis for a one-make series that might only last one season before everyone gets fed up and goes back to blinky touring.  At least TT-01E truck racing had a significantly cheaper entry-point, and was a simpler chassis that novices could get setup tips on.

[JimBear 862]

I think you are on to something, @Mad Ax - a car park basher is an easier sell than a club (carpet) racer, I guess. The " ...that it sits in a market space all on its own, and more so, a market space that nobody really asked for and nobody is even sure they want" - well, that's Tamiya with a big T. really.

But for my own part, I am like @Badcrumble - I have no space to run it, and the . It's mostly crawlerspace and buggyland around here out in the sticks.

The wheelbase (257 mm) would, I assume, fit at least some of the TT-02 body selection?

[skom25 1908]

@Mad Ax can be right. It makes sense.

3 minutes ago, JimBear said:

I think you are on to something, @Mad Ax - a car park basher is an easier sell than a club (carpet) racer, I guess. The " ...that it sits in a market space all on its own, and more so, a market space that nobody really asked for and nobody is even sure they want" - well, that's Tamiya with a big T. really.

But for my own part, I am like @Badcrumble - I have no space to run it, and the . It's mostly crawlerspace and buggyland around here out in the sticks.

The wheelbase (257 mm) would, I assume, fit at least some of the TT-02 body selection?

If I understand correctly looking at specs, it should fit all TT-02 bodies. This is why I am surprised, that there are no "chassis only" kits available.

I have to say it again... Tamiya is strange company.

[Honza 1117]

1 hour ago, skom25 said:

 In that case, why it is so unpopular? .... I found only two kits available: Formula E and Mercedes CLK-GTR

Here's your answer. The second kit came out this year, almost 4 years after the Formula E. The formula body, apart from being nightmare to build, suggests that this car isn't meant for street driving, is more expensive than other F1s and it's quite disproportionate due to standard TC dimensions. Regarding that, I'm not sure if distributors even communicated the option of putting a standard body on it.

I'd say it must look scary to newcomers - complicated chassis with little space for electronics, complicated body, higher price than a standard TT-02. And for Tamiya fans, there are memories of F201.

1 hour ago, Badcrumble said:

If I recall correct it needs a nice smooth surface so doesn't suit the car park bashers like me.

It doesn't need smooth surface, Tamiya has even shown its rally capabilities in one of their streams.  Unfortunately, beyond this stream, they didn't communicate this capability to their customers. I can se a variant with upright dampers being great rallycriss car, thanks to its buggy-like layout.

 

The thing that killed my interest, as a tinkerer, was that they integrated gearboxes into chassis and large covers on the top. It'd have been nice chassis for custom rally build, if they kept the gearboxes separated.

[BuggyDad 5391]

50 minutes ago, Honza said:

It doesn't need smooth surface, Tamiya has even shown its rally capabilities in one of their streams.  Unfortunately, beyond this stream, they didn't communicate this capability to their customers. I can se a variant with upright dampers being great rallycriss car, thanks to its buggy-like layout.

 

The thing that killed my interest, as a tinkerer, was that they integrated gearboxes into chassis and large covers on the top. It'd have been nice chassis for custom rally build, if they kept the gearboxes separated.

Well, just look at that! 

The TC-01 never hit my radar but built like that it looks absolutely fantastic!

I wonder what the ride height, droop and travel numbers are like in that guise? 

[skom25 1908]

15 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Well, just look at that! 

The TC-01 never hit my radar but built like that it looks absolutely fantastic!

I wonder what the ride height, droop and travel numbers are like in that guise? 

Same here. I was pretty sure that it is very low chassis, but it seems that I can be totally different.

[BuggyDad 5391]

@skom25 It seems RC Kicks did a video on setting one up as a rally car. He got 17mm ride height with what sounds like just minor parts swapping, not modification. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DzKgp9LPy2YI&ved=2ahUKEwihsbT4jcyIAxVAUUEAHTvxGGcQwqsBegQIChAG&usg=AOvVaw0U6elMe0YC_Vr5pXoIADdG

Question mark on droop and his suspension doesn't seem to be absorbing gravelly bumps much, but then he did say he was aiming for a tarmac rally car. 

Anyway, looks like plenty of space to build it nicely for free running on eg unprepared tarmac. 

[Honza 1117]

28 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

I wonder what the ride height, droop and travel numbers are like in that guise? 

I found an RCkicks video where he did rally build without heavy mods, he mentions it being about 3mm lower than XV-01. So about 15mm? The chassis could bottom out, so stock dampers have enough travel to cover this ride height easily.

Looks like it's enough for a parking lot and some driving in a park, more modifications would be needed for heavier terrain. The suspension is probably the biggest limitations, but since the lower inner mounts are standard 3mm hinge pins, something could be done about that.

[Badcrumble 4417]

Oh no. I've wanted one since it came out. 

Please don't tell me that I could actually run it....

[anytimebaby 27]

Oops, trying to find the unsee button before I click 'buy it now'

[TurnipJF 9872]

For my part, I was quite excited about the chassis when it was first released, having both a TB-03 and FF-03 in my fleet already, both of which have inboard front shocks and are excellent performers. However, having realised the limits of my polycarbonate body assembly skills with my Tyrrell P34 build, the Formula E bodyshell kept it off my wishlist.

However as soon as it was released with the Mercedes CLK GTR bodyshell, it shot straight to the top of my wishlist - a fact that was not lost on my wife - and the kit arrived as a birthday present.

The build was most enjoyable, with everything going together accurately and securely. I know that earlier kits had some issues with the gearbox cover fitment and required fettling of the locating posts in order for them to clamp down properly, but I didn't have any issues with my kit. Maybe Tamiya have fixed the issue, or maybe I was just lucky - I don't know. Like the TB-03 and FF-03, almost everything was ballraced, except the steering to which I added ballraces from my stash. The suspension bellcranks were also ballraced - something that is not included with the TB-03 and FF-03, which was nice. Minor shimming of the steering removed the minimal slop that was present, and the bellcranks didn't require any shimming at all.

In terms of hop-ups, the spec out of the box is much like the M-07 and M-08 - plenty good enough for racing, but somewhat lacking in blue bling, so of course I added some in the form of alloy suspension mounts, steering rack and shocks, and I also opted for the carbon chassis stiffeners which really do work despite their small size and simple appearance - the chassis is noticeably stiffer with them installed.

The electronics installation shown in the manual only works for small ESCs with thin cables. However I managed what I consider a reasonably neat installation of a HW 10BL60 by taking the cooling fan off the top of the heatsink and relocating it to the side, tucking the ESC partially under the T10 piece beneath the front propshaft, and routing the motor wires next to the servo and across the chassis just in front of the motor plate. Achieving a tight and compact installation is of course not really a necessity with a touring bodyshell, but I like the look of the chassis without wires sticking out.

Running the car for the first time was a pleasant surprise. This is the first time that I have not had to perform any adjustments to the steering trim or travel - the car ran perfectly straight at zero trim, and the steering arms gently touched their stops at full travel in both directions. Damping (Yeah Racing 55mm Shock Gear items with 3 hole pistons and stock oil all round) is also pretty close to optimal for my driving style running on Sorex 32Rs with yellow inserts. I run outdoors on tarmac so have the car set to 5mm ground clearance to avoid bottoming out over all but the worst cracks and gratings, and the car has been used for two ERBP runs so far without incident. It isn't as quick as my TB-03 - yet - but I wouldn't expect a brand new car to immediately out-perform one that I have been running for years and have had plenty of practice with. However it isn't far off, and with further practice and setup, it may end up being faster.

So, in short, I reckon the complex marmite bodyshell put people off the chassis initially. Now that it is available with an easier-to-build, more spacious and (to my eye) more attractive shell (which can be sold off or used on another touring chassis if you wish), it ought to prove more popular.

[Howards 594]

Hah I want one now….

[rccartips1 18]

Heavy and high CG.

[svenb 3914]

How many of us are awaiting the R/MS version!?

[TurnipJF 9872]

6 minutes ago, svenb said:

How many of us are awaiting the R/MS version!?

I wonder what tasty bits they would include with it?

[skom25 1908]

12 minutes ago, svenb said:

How many of us are awaiting the R/MS version!?

I am not sure if there are many things which can be improved.

- Aluminium shocks

- Universals

- Wheel hexes

- Adjustable turnbuckles instead of that weird links between steering parts and front upright

- Hight Torque Servo Saver or Stiff Horn

Rest looks really nice. There are no traditional shock towers, so no place for carbon.

[TurnipJF 9872]

Even the base version comes with a high torque servo saver, albeit one with a plastic top. The blue alloy topped version would be nice to see in the R/MS version. I'd also like the R/MS version to include the carbon chassis stiffeners as it is a bit of a floppy beast without them. Or maybe a hard version of the chassis tub like the TT-02SR?

 

[bRIBEGuy 3376]

8 hours ago, skom25 said:

Hi,

Why TC-01 chassis is so unpopular? 

I checked today build video and it looks like really nice, simple chassis, made from high quality materials. There are even not too many Hop Ups, because it seems that it is really good straight from the box.

I like suspension adjustment solution. Few spacers which can be added/ removed in a seconds. At least from my perspective, it looks like really good mid level TC car.

In that case, why it is so unpopular? It is hard to find any build topics. I found only two kits available: Formula E and Mercedes CLK-GTR

Not sure why you think it's unpopular?  Sure, it's not as common as a TT02, but it's also significantly more $$$.

Not sure why you think there aren't many hop ups available... there are TONS.

Not sure why you think there aren't any build threads... what about HERE or HERE or HERE

The TC01 is a great kit, and VERY Tamiya.  It gets some hate for being overly complex (in mechanical layout and body construction), but who else would release a scale Fomula E car?  I don't think it was designed as a straight up basher, nor as a straight up race car (though it can hold it's own at a club level as shown HERE) , but as a unique chassis that can run unique bodies (Formula E, Toyota TS050, etc...), and be driven on the street or at a track.

[TurnipJF 9872]

As for the allegation that it is heavy, I suppose it depends on what you are comparing it to.

 

With the Formula E bodyshell, one might think of it as being comparable to an open-wheeled racer such as the F103 or F104, in which case it is rather heavy.

 

Or in CLK GTR guise, you might consider comparing it to other models representing cars that raced at Le Mans, like the Group C and F103GT, in which case it is also on the heavy side.

 

 

But compared to other plastic tub 4WD touring chassis, it is in the same ballpark.

 

 

 

 

 

[BuggyDad 5391]

4 hours ago, rccartips1 said:

Heavy and high CG.

I wondered also about the high CG. I don't know much about TCs, so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how does it have a high CG? It looks to me like it would be comparable to other TCs in this regard?

[Honza 1117]

37 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

I wondered also about the high CG. I don't know much about TCs, so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how does it have a high CG? It looks to me like it would be comparable to other TCs in this regard?

Modern TCs are pushing things like shocks as low as possible - most of the chassis is below top edge of wheels.

TC-01 has entire dampers and large part of the transmission above the battery. So by modern TC standards, it has very high CG.