Hornet EVO Build - write up on page two.

[River19 178]

On 12/23/2024 at 12:40 AM, MadAnt said:

So I've been experimenting and trying to figure out how to fit other hubs on the rear axles without binding. This is an issue I've found out(and others have found out too) trying to use the original old style hubs and other hex hubs. It seems kind of silly that the only hubs that fit well are the ones that came in the kit. The best solution would be to have a new revised axle with the pin hole drilled offset maybe 1mm out. This is the kind of stuff those YouTubers who got to review these cars extra early did not catch, and we who just got the cars in December have too. I can't even use my aluminum hex hub adapters which is sold by Tamiya as an Hopup option for the Hoppers, Hornets, Frog and other ORV cars, I've tried and the bearings bind when the wheel is tightened. As of right now, I have one sloppy solution after trying multiple things like spacers in-between the bearings that only contact the inner race to messing with shims and whatnot. This sloppy solution is tape in the pin slot of the hub, just keep adding tape until it rotates good.

If anyone who has some leverage at Tamiya reads these forums should listen and fix the issue.

I'm sure other people here would agree.

I played around with some of the my 2.2" buggy wheels from my current pile from racing clay off road and I was able to use that "adapter" in the upper left of your pic but I cut it down by 1/4" and was able to mount and run a set of normal offset rear wheels.

What are our options for front wheels that aren't like a 1/2" wide......?  

 

[MadAnt 732]

On 12/30/2024 at 5:53 PM, River19 said:

What are our options for front wheels that aren't like a 1/2" wide......?  

Any 2.2 buggy wheel that accepts metric bearings and will fit the front axles. Or change the front axles to something wider to fit blackfoot wheels and whatnot.

[River19 178]

6 minutes ago, MadAnt said:

Any buggy wheel that accepts bearings and will fit the front axles. Or change the front axles to something wider to fit blackfoot wheels and whatnot.

OK I gotta take a look as nothing that I am familiar with runs bearings in the wheels still.  I have piles of TLR wheels as I race 3 of them along with Schumacher/AE style 4wd wheels....I'll keep my eye out.

[Honza 1255]

On 12/23/2024 at 6:40 AM, MadAnt said:

So I've been experimenting and trying to figure out how to fit other hubs on the rear axles without binding. This is an issue I've found out(and others have found out too) trying to use the original old style hubs and other hex hubs. It seems kind of silly that the only hubs that fit well are the ones that came in the kit. The best solution would be to have a new revised axle with the pin hole drilled offset maybe 1mm out. This is the kind of stuff those YouTubers who got to review these cars extra early did not catch, and we who just got the cars in December have too. I can't even use my aluminum hex hub adapters which is sold by Tamiya as an Hopup option for the Hoppers, Hornets, Frog and other ORV cars, I've tried and the bearings bind when the wheel is tightened. As of right now, I have one sloppy solution after trying multiple things like spacers in-between the bearings that only contact the inner race to messing with shims and whatnot. This sloppy solution is tape in the pin slot of the hub, just keep adding tape until it rotates good.

One possible solution would be putting a spacer inside the hub, between the bearings. It must be thick just enough to clamp the inner rings together, without putting force on the balls. Racing chassis use this solution to reduce play in the wheel axle.

 

[MadAnt 732]

8 minutes ago, Honza said:

One possible solution would be putting a spacer inside the hub, between the bearings. It must be thick just enough to clamp the inner rings together, without putting force on the balls. Racing chassis use this solution to reduce play in the wheel axle.

I tried that, but now I have another idea. I'll report back after I try it.

 

35 minutes ago, River19 said:

OK I gotta take a look as nothing that I am familiar with runs bearings in the wheels still.  I have piles of TLR wheels as I race 3 of them along with Schumacher/AE style 4wd wheels....I'll keep my eye out.

Tamiya has some 2.2 buggy front wheels that fit the DT-02, I'm using part no. 54338. Also for more options you can pull the Lunchbox front axles apart and use them with the wider truck wheels.

[MadAnt 732]

@Honza

Good new and bad news.

Before I've tried putting spacers in-between the inner races of the bearings with no luck, but I did not try a shim between the pin and inner bearing race like in the picture you have shown. I have good news, trying both at once worked, no more binding. I think last time I had the plastic hub and spacer deforming making contact with the bearing shield or something, or at least that might explain the binding. I'm still considering it an issue, it's annoying to deal with since now the other plastic hubs don't press on anymore which mean it's easy to lose the pin when putting the wheels on or taking them off. Perhaps a little bit of not permanent glue may help keep the pin in, or tacky grease, or maybe using a press fit roll pin. Anyway, the problem is kind of sorta sorted, but I still believe the pin hole needs to move out a little bit, but we know how to deal with it now.

[MadAnt 732]

It was a cool beautiful day today, so I decided to run the Hornet EVO on the asphalt. Equipped with JConcepts hotties in the front and Proline Hoosier dirt oval tires in the back, I was really able to find out how the on road handling is. There was noticeable push in the front end, but once the tires warmed up it the understeer was reduced and the front end was more responsive. It was handing very good for a Hornet, feeling well balanced on the pavement, I was pleased. It just goes to show that tires make a huge difference, and I even traction rolled once, lol. 

The power was ok, motor temps were fine, but for those bigger spaces it could use some higher gearing. Running in the thick grass that grows over here is not a good idea and will bog most 10th scale buggies down. I ran it for around 40 minutes on the pavement and on one charge of a Gens Ace Redline 4000mAh shorty 2s LiPo pack with a 130C burst rate. That is a pretty fantastic runtime if you plan on sticking with the stock setup for those who most run on paved surfaces. 

Anyway, here is a blurry photo.

Extra notes:

Definitely does not handle like a Hornet, but still looks like one.

The benefit of using a short battery pack is that it can be positioned farther forward In the Hornet and help with handling. 

I did nothing special to break-in the motor brushes, it was never under extreme load for long. It will be fine.

[River19 178]

2 hours ago, MadAnt said:

It was a cool beautiful day today, so I decided to run the Hornet EVO on the asphalt. Equipped with JConcepts hotties in the front and Proline Hoosier dirt oval tires in the back, I was really able to find out how when the on road handling is. There was noticeable push in the front end, but once the tires warmed up it the understeer was reduced and the front end was more responsive. It was handing very good for a Hornet, feeling well balanced on the pavement, I was pleased. It just goes to show that tires make a huge difference, I even traction rolled once, lol. 

The power was ok, motor temps were fine, but for those bigger spaces it could use some higher gearing. Running in the thick grass that grows over here is not a good idea and will bog most 10th scale buggies down. I ran it for around 40 minutes on the pavement and on one charge of a Gens Ace Redline 4000Mah shortie 2s LiPo pack with a 130C burst rate. That is a pretty fantastic runtime if you plan on sticking with the stock setup for those who most run on paved surfaces. 

Anyway, here is a blurry photo.

Extra notes:

Definitely does not handle like a Hornet, but still looks like one.

The benefit of using a short battery pack is that it can be positioned farther forward In the Hornet and help with handling. 

I did nothing special to break-in the motor brushes, it was never under extreme load for long. It will be fine.

Sounds about right based on my driving experience on my gravel drive.....it will always have a front end push, of course we could try softening the front end even more and trade push for bottoming out on small bumps and jumps.

I dropped a Tourque Tuned motor in and a 19T pinion and it raised the fun level significantly,

I get probably 30mins of run time from my 4000mah shorty pack that I use in my other race buggies.

[Carmine A 3121]

 

6 hours ago, MadAnt said:

....... I ran it for around 40 minutes on the pavement and on one charge of a Gens Ace Redline 4000Mah shortie 2s LiPo pack with a 130C burst rate. That is a pretty fantastic runtime......

Are you old enough to remember having to run the original Hornet, on the OG white hard pack, 600mAh NiCd batteries!!?? 😮🙄  THOSE were an exercise in patience!

Glad to see it out and running. 

[MadAnt 732]

1 hour ago, Carmine A said:

 

Are you old enough to remember having to run the original Hornet, on the OG white hard pack, 600mAh NiCd batteries!!?? 😮🙄  THOSE were an exercise in patience!

Glad to see it out and running. 

Nah, only old enough to remember having the toy grade stuff with NiCad batteries. Still a pain waiting all day to charge the battery just to have 5 minutes of runtime. Then when I moved on to hobby grade stuff we had a choice of cheap 1500mAh NiCd to expensive matched cell 2400mAh NiMh packs. 

Lol, I'm glad I never spent $120+ for just 6 sub C cells.

[Carmine A 3121]

@MadAnt that was just when things were getting better!

[MadAnt 732]

11 hours ago, Carmine A said:

@MadAnt that was just when things were getting better!

It was fun times watching things evolve.

[Smokescreen38 200]

Are body shells available to buy yet? I can’t seem to find them listed.

I believe the original Hornet body can be made to work but I want this one for a shelf queen/box art body so I want it to be right.  I need that set of Evo decals too. 
 

[MadAnt 732]

14 hours ago, Smokescreen38 said:

Are body shells available to buy yet? I can’t seem to find them listed.

I believe the original Hornet body can be made to work but I want this one for a shelf queen/box art body so I want it to be right.  I need that set of Evo decals too. 
 

The part number for the evo body is 9803512 and the decal set is 9490151. It may be some time before they are in stock. 

Also, if you check my posts on page one, you can see that I prepared a regular hornet body in advance. All It needs to fit is some extra cutting in some areas to fit, which on the evo body is market out, but really not hard to do on the regular body.

[MadAnt 732]

With the weather still cold and windy sometimes and I've been wanting to get my Hornet EVO out for some fun. Since I'm not taking the buggy out again yet, I thought I should look into fixing the known bump steer, which happens when the front suspension is compressed causing the wheels to toe out. So the issue here seems to be the geometry of the steering linkage in relation to the suspension control arms.

Well, sometimes I can't leave things alone, so I attempted to resolve most of the issue for as little cost as possible. Infact it cost almost nothing and does not require replacing any parts. All that needs to be done is flipping the C hubs upside down and relocating the steering linkage from the top of the spindle arm to underneath it.  

This now puts the steering linkage more parallel to the suspension control arm and reduces the change in toe throughout the travel of the suspension. It's not perfect, but a very slight amount of toe in will be better than the larger amount of toe out from before when the suspension is compressed.

In the pictures below you can see the effectiveness of this simple solution I came up with. This does change the ride height just a little bit, but it's really not much of anything to be concerned with.

In my opinion, this is so much better, but you may need set the end point adjustment from the radio so the rim does not rub the control arm (Should be fine anyway and has plenty of steering), even though the other way it could rub on the ball link end. Eh, so you know anyway it will be fine.

[ThunderDragonCy 8902]

This is so much better it almost feels like an error in the manual. Why on earth would they not do this?! Good work @MadAnt

[Howards 790]

1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

This is so much better it almost feels like an error in the manual. Why on earth would they not do this?! Good work @MadAnt

Agree. Bonkers. 

[matisse 1717]

2 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

This is so much better it almost feels like an error in the manual. Why on earth would they not do this?! Good work @MadAnt

tbf, if it has crazy bump steer thats the retro driving feel yeh?

[MadAnt 732]

Took the Hornet EVO out yesterday and got it really dirty. I think putting the sticky anti wear grease in the diff was a good move and helped in the dusty gravel. The motor never really got hot, just warm and since the buggy has plenty of torque I might look into some gearing options for the DT02 gearbox to get a bit more speed and be more tunable.

Anyway, it was a fun time and it was very stable, even with the the tires I was using.