870C/YZ10 question

[Saito2]

How much caster and kickup did these Yokomo's have? It looks like zero kickup from what I can see in photos online but I can't quite make out if the front bulkhead adds some. Still unsure about the caster angle too. Thanks.

[RCvet]

Caster / kickup comes from the bulkhead only near as I can tell.   Here are some close ups of mine. 

[RCvet]

19 minutes ago, RCvet said:

Caster / kickup comes from the bulkhead only near as I can tell.   Here are some close ups of mine. 

 

[RCvet]

2 minutes ago, RCvet said:

 

 

[Saito2]

Thanks for the pics. Nice buggy. Yokomo's are a bit alien to me outside of their coverage in RC Car Action. What a beautifully simple and effective platform,

[RCvet]

Same arms and hubs front to back, minimal screws, easy access drive train.  You can literally have the car broken down and put together in minutes.  Exact opposite say of Schumacher Cat or Optima Mid of time of which I had both and always went back to the 870c.    An awesome thing when racing back in the day, I wish others had gone down this path more.  It wasn't perfect but the works 91 car got it closer and the fast guys today can still compete with one.

[Howards]

For what it's worth, a popular LLM AI reckons 25 degrees total, with 15 of that coming from the C hubs, 10 deg at the bulkhead. 

[Saito2]

3 hours ago, RCvet said:

Exact opposite say of Schumacher Cat or Optima Mid of time of which I had both and always went back to the 870c.

It makes me want to try one out but they are just too pricey for me. I run an old rear motor Optima regularly and whiles its built like a tank, a total tear-down seems daunting. I'm kinda stuck in Egress-land when it comes to vintage 4wd racers and that puts me a bit off the pace.

43 minutes ago, Howards said:

25 degrees total, with 15 of that coming from the C hubs, 10 deg at the bulkhead. 

Thanks. I saw the flat chassis plate and glanced at the scrub radius and began comparing the Yoke to my Egress in my mind so I thought I'd ask some geometry questions. With no kick-up and only 10 deg in the front hubs, I see why the Egress is still at a disadvantage in that area (as well as others).

[sosidge]

10 hours ago, Howards said:

For what it's worth, a popular LLM AI reckons 25 degrees total, with 15 of that coming from the C hubs, 10 deg at the bulkhead. 

I assume you are posting that as an AI-related joke because we have an actual picture of the car in this thread and it obvious that there is close to zero caster in the hubs.

[Saito2]

...and since I'm not very computer savvy and don't know what "LLM" means, I was too slow on the uptake to get that.

[Howards]

5 hours ago, sosidge said:

I assume you are posting that as an AI-related joke because we have an actual picture of the car in this thread and it obvious that there is close to zero caster in the hubs.

Yeah, could be a 'hallucination'. I'm inclined to buy it though. it's also very hard to judge comparatively subtle angles from photos, especially when they are distorted by lenses or even digital processing deliberately trying to straighten things up. It would also be a somewhat unusual design decision to bake that much angle in to kick-up on a 4wd. 

[Howards]

15 hours ago, Saito2 said:

I'm kinda stuck in Egress-land

Like you, I have an Egress. I've flipped flopped over trying to race it. I think it will be an expensive and somewhat fruitless endeavour vs. Mids, Procats and 870c on the tracks near me. If I were to pick one, it would be the Dogfighter. I've also toyed with idea of hopping up / hardening a Manta Ray but I suspect life is too short. I feel the 'vintage' racing requires deep pockets.    

[sosidge]

1 hour ago, Howards said:

Yeah, could be a 'hallucination'. I'm inclined to buy it though. it's also very hard to judge comparatively subtle angles from photos, especially when they are distorted by lenses or even digital processing deliberately trying to straighten things up. It would also be a somewhat unusual design decision to bake that much angle in to kick-up on a 4wd. 

You're inclined to believe an LLM rather than an actual photo and comments from humans with direct experience of the car?

You don't happen to work in senior management in the banking sector do you? I'm sure I've been in several meetings with people with the same misplaced faith as you.

LLM's can do one thing. Create persuasive sentences. They have absolutely no sense of what is true or not. There is no intelligence involved, artificial or otherwise. Which is why the BBC is currently protesting Apple's use of AI to write news summaries - within the last day Apple's LLM has falsely sent out notifications that Luke Littler had won the darts championship ( at that point in time he hadn't), and that tennis player Rafael Nadal had come out as gay (he hadn't, but another tennis player did).

[Howards]

No, like I say, would be a bit strange to bake 25 degrees in to kick-up. Not impossible, but strange, and the angles we are talking about are small and hard to eyeball. I don't really care that much tbh, and am happy to buy it until the definitive answer turns up. Querying an AI is a reasonable starting point for stuff this niche when a straight up search turns up nothing definitive. If RCVet wants to tell us they've got the callipers out, I'll head back the LLM and correct it 😆 

I know all about the inherent problems with AI / LLMs, thanks. This is why my original post was prefixed with 'for what it is worth'. 

The rest of your post, no need for it, I think. 

[RCvet]

RCvet does not own calipers at the moment, I actually don't know where they went and given lately I am running Wild Ones and Blitzers mostly the amount of slop seems non caliper worthy

Back to 870C.  The chassis is flat the kick up is all generated in the bulkhead, by my highly calibrated trained eyeball it is maybe 10 or 15 degrees at most.  I have no conspiracy or agenda on this one, other than to say I won my 1st trophy racing an 870C around 1988 or so.  Wait, maybe that means if not an agenda, certainly a bias. 

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