Getting back to TC racing - advice on cheap, used, or vintage?

[Mad Ax 11397]

TL;DR:

I want to do a little bit of indoor club racing with a "proper" belt-driven TC with all the necessary adjustability.  I want to learn about setup, how setup changes affect the handling and performance, and also to get used to the 4wd delivery, and belt drive.

I can't afford to blow a fortune on a new TRF-421 or Xray X4, so I have the following options:

Xpress XQ3S or 3Racing Cero - I'm leaning towards the Xpress as parts support seems better here.  Plus I know a former Xpress team driver, although that has very little bearing on anything practical at all since he was racing the top-end stuff.

Used modern-ish TC - looks like my budget won't stretch to anything properly recent but there are some 7-8 year old cars available.  It's hard to say if these will be categorically "better" than a new entry-level car, and of course they're more likely to have worn parts.

TRF-415 - OK, it's an old bit of hardware now, but it was top spec when it was new and of course it's a bit of Tamiya history.  Will hold its value much better than a new Xpress or a used non-Tamiya car.  Plus, it's eligible for some Iconic Cup rounds, so I have the option of doing some proper vintage racing with it later on.

Long Version:

It looks like I'll be racing in the new BRCA Sportscar Endurance series this year.  It's a team racing series, with 4-driver teams and races from 2 to 6 hours long.  The team captain is putting forward his TRF-421 as our entry, so I need to get the hang of driving a proper TC.  He and at least one of our other drivers know how to set up a touring car, so I don't need to get too heavily involved in that side of it, but I do need to be able to give input, especially if the car is too twitchy or fast for me.  It's a 21.5 blinky series, so it won't be crazy fast, but I've only really raced FWD M-chassis over the last couple of years so I'm probably going to be too heavy on the throttle and spin it out a lot.

With that in mind, I thought I'd get myself a TC and go do some indoor carpet racing for a couple of months to really get a feel for it.  Hopefully then I won't look like an utter novice when I turn up at the first round, and will at least be able to get involved in setup discussions and be better placed to take advice on my driving.

My first thought was to buy a Schumacher or Xray and just go racing, until I saw the price of these things.  Wowsers  TC racing isn't for the poor guy, right?

I considered hopping up a TT02, but even the hopped up specials are pretty spendy compared to something like an Xpress XQ3S, which may be entry level but still has tonnes of adjustability and belt drive.  Plus it's upgradeable to full XQ11 spec - OK that's not an X4 or 421, but it is a proper, current TC.

I spoke to a former Xpress team driver and he said they're solid, well-made kits - not Tamiya level but good to race with.  He couldn't really comment on the 3S because he hadn't seen one.  But I think a 3S with maybe some alu shocks would be a good starting point, and if I get the TC bug I can always buy the rest of the parts over time.

I've asked around about used TCs, but there's not much there, and people seem to want a lot for it.  There's a 2018 T4 for sale but my local race buddy says it's overpriced for a 7 year old car.  It's a fair bit more than the Xpress.  Currently waiting on some prices for some older Destiny cars, but I have a suspicion they'll be priced at higher than their performance level and will be hard to sell if I lose the love for it down the line (I've done club TC before and got fed up with it).

Another option is a TRF-415 - I've been offered one for a reasonable price, it's all there although probably needs a few extra bits for tuning.  I know it will be way outdated, but it has the benefit of having a higher resale value and also being a really nice bit of Tamiya history that I can keep in the collection if I decide not to race it any more.  The drawback I see here is that it's based on a much older layout / design philosophy, so it will be very different to drive to the TRF-421 that I'll be racing in the Endurance series.  On the other hand, an XQ3S probably won't drive much like a 421 either, even if it shares the same basic layout.  It should at least give me plenty of opportunity to learn about setup and driving techniques, even if I have to transpose that slightly for Endurance racing, and it has the added benefit of being eligible for the GT class in the Iconic Cup, so if I get a chance to do some Cup rounds this year, I'll be able to enter it there, and not have to get my head out of 4wd to run the M-05 again (which could have disastrous consequences at the next Endurance round  ) 

Any advice gratefully received.  Right now I'm think I'm stuck between the Xpress and the 415, but happy to hear any input  

[ThunderDragonCy 9095]

Xpress is what a load of the club racers run in MTC (mini touring car) over the winter. They're meant to be really good and cheap to run. 

If you get a TRF415 you can buy some later spec arms and uprights and fit those so you aren't breaking parts that might be hard to find. 

Personally I would be tempted to try and find a used TA07 or TA08 if you want to keep it Tamiya and want to learn touring cars. Would be cheaper than a full race rig, but will have all the adjustability you want to learn about. 

What about Schumacher? There are few Mi6 rollers on ebay for £150. 

 

[Mad Ax 11397]

4 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

What about Schumacher? There are few Mi6 rollers on ebay for £150. 

ooh, an Mi6 isn't a bad shout.  Probably similar to the Destiny rollers that someone is going to price up for me, but with more people who will understand them, so arguably a better bet for club racing.  I think most people were running Schumachers at the local club last time I was racing, although all the serious boys seem to have gone Xray these days.  I'm assuming parts support for older Schumacher tourers is good, I'm generally impressed by their support for their re-re cars.

I did consider a new TA08 Pro, but they're almost twice the price of the XQ3S and still "only" a TA08.

Looks like I've got a few things to think about.  Thanks  

[ThunderDragonCy 9095]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176701297267?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&ff=11&customid=Cj0KCQiA4fi7BhC5ARIsAEV1YiaGQ97Ha4-4B1wrhYfbBmPN_OnelJZIGuOqbVDQaw0depkFh_pk6aEaApQyEALw_wcB

 

[Elbowloh 1486]

15 minutes ago, Mad Ax said:

ooh, an Mi6 isn't a bad shout.  Probably similar to the Destiny rollers that someone is going to price up for me, but with more people who will understand them, so arguably a better bet for club racing.  I think most people were running Schumachers at the local club last time I was racing, although all the serious boys seem to have gone Xray these days.  I'm assuming parts support for older Schumacher tourers is good, I'm generally impressed by their support for their re-re cars.

I did consider a new TA08 Pro, but they're almost twice the price of the XQ3S and still "only" a TA08.

Looks like I've got a few things to think about.  Thanks  

There quite a few used TA08s and TA07 available too I think, most pretty hopped up.  

Even TRF 419 and 420s for those who have moved onto the 421

[Cdanna76 238]

I run few different cars, TT02,TA07 pro, Xray T4 21, and an Xq3s. they all vary so much. I like the TT02, and TA07 for asphalt and primarily run the T4 and Xq3s on black carpet. ( VTA, USGT 21.5 and 25.5 TC, prospec classes)

In my opinion the 07 is heavy and not to adjustable out of the box compared to the T4 an Xq3s. And a bit finicky to work on. But I do prefer this car on asphalt over the others.

I really have to say I have been super happy with the handling and durability of the Xq3s in 25.5 LMH and USGT both asphalt and carpet. easy to set up, and parts are cost affective easy to swap out as needed. Plus a bonus the Xq11 parts will be a direct up grade down the road if needed.

The Xray is pleasure to run and is a tank. but parts here in the states are a bit pricey.

I'm by no means a pro. I'm a middle of the pack finisher consistently. not the cars fault by any means.

 

Hope this helps a bit.

[Losi XXT-CR 519]

6 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

TL;DR:

I want to do a little bit of indoor club racing with a "proper" belt-driven TC with all the necessary adjustability.  I want to learn about setup, how setup changes affect the handling and performance, and also to get used to the 4wd delivery, and belt drive.

I can't afford to blow a fortune on a new TRF-421 or Xray X4, so I have the following options:

Xpress XQ3S or 3Racing Cero - I'm leaning towards the Xpress as parts support seems better here.  Plus I know a former Xpress team driver, although that has very little bearing on anything practical at all since he was racing the top-end stuff.

Used modern-ish TC - looks like my budget won't stretch to anything properly recent but there are some 7-8 year old cars available.  It's hard to say if these will be categorically "better" than a new entry-level car, and of course they're more likely to have worn parts.

TRF-415 - OK, it's an old bit of hardware now, but it was top spec when it was new and of course it's a bit of Tamiya history.  Will hold its value much better than a new Xpress or a used non-Tamiya car.  Plus, it's eligible for some Iconic Cup rounds, so I have the option of doing some proper vintage racing with it later on.

Long Version:

It looks like I'll be racing in the new BRCA Sportscar Endurance series this year.  It's a team racing series, with 4-driver teams and races from 2 to 6 hours long.  The team captain is putting forward his TRF-421 as our entry, so I need to get the hang of driving a proper TC.  He and at least one of our other drivers know how to set up a touring car, so I don't need to get too heavily involved in that side of it, but I do need to be able to give input, especially if the car is too twitchy or fast for me.  It's a 21.5 blinky series, so it won't be crazy fast, but I've only really raced FWD M-chassis over the last couple of years so I'm probably going to be too heavy on the throttle and spin it out a lot.

With that in mind, I thought I'd get myself a TC and go do some indoor carpet racing for a couple of months to really get a feel for it.  Hopefully then I won't look like an utter novice when I turn up at the first round, and will at least be able to get involved in setup discussions and be better placed to take advice on my driving.

My first thought was to buy a Schumacher or Xray and just go racing, until I saw the price of these things.  Wowsers  TC racing isn't for the poor guy, right?

I considered hopping up a TT02, but even the hopped up specials are pretty spendy compared to something like an Xpress XQ3S, which may be entry level but still has tonnes of adjustability and belt drive.  Plus it's upgradeable to full XQ11 spec - OK that's not an X4 or 421, but it is a proper, current TC.

I spoke to a former Xpress team driver and he said they're solid, well-made kits - not Tamiya level but good to race with.  He couldn't really comment on the 3S because he hadn't seen one.  But I think a 3S with maybe some alu shocks would be a good starting point, and if I get the TC bug I can always buy the rest of the parts over time.

I've asked around about used TCs, but there's not much there, and people seem to want a lot for it.  There's a 2018 T4 for sale but my local race buddy says it's overpriced for a 7 year old car.  It's a fair bit more than the Xpress.  Currently waiting on some prices for some older Destiny cars, but I have a suspicion they'll be priced at higher than their performance level and will be hard to sell if I lose the love for it down the line (I've done club TC before and got fed up with it).

Another option is a TRF-415 - I've been offered one for a reasonable price, it's all there although probably needs a few extra bits for tuning.  I know it will be way outdated, but it has the benefit of having a higher resale value and also being a really nice bit of Tamiya history that I can keep in the collection if I decide not to race it any more.  The drawback I see here is that it's based on a much older layout / design philosophy, so it will be very different to drive to the TRF-421 that I'll be racing in the Endurance series.  On the other hand, an XQ3S probably won't drive much like a 421 either, even if it shares the same basic layout.  It should at least give me plenty of opportunity to learn about setup and driving techniques, even if I have to transpose that slightly for Endurance racing, and it has the added benefit of being eligible for the GT class in the Iconic Cup, so if I get a chance to do some Cup rounds this year, I'll be able to enter it there, and not have to get my head out of 4wd to run the M-05 again (which could have disastrous consequences at the next Endurance round  ) 

Any advice gratefully received.  Right now I'm think I'm stuck between the Xpress and the 415, but happy to hear any input  

Not sure I can offer much really, just some recent experience.

I recently got back into racing, I'd love to do off road, but seems that nobody else does. So it is carpet racing. Although I'm not fussed about championships or classes, so just race at a couple of local clubs. Years back I bought an M.Rage from BSR. Hobbyking and others used to sell them, only paid £60 new. Looks quite nice:

 

Shaft, not belt though. Its basically a 4wd M Chassis car. I believe you can still get them under the Carten brand. Which has been handy for a few spares and upgrades. I've got the car performing ok now. At the local club they have an MTC class, which maybe the sorts of vehicles you are meaning. Although none of them run "Touring" car shells or even "Mni" styles shells, so no idea how MTC (mini touring car) can be an appropriate name. Those cars are so much quicker than I am. The other main class is Tamiya TT-02 (and TT-01). So I run with them most of the time. I feel the car is similar pace to those. It could be my driving. The TT-02's are still circa 10 or more laps down on the MTC's on a 5 min race though. So I'd say with some confidence that the cars are of different paces.

I've just bought myself a TT-02 Type S, not built it yet. But feel as though I'll be more on par with the other TT-02 drivers, rather than running something much smaller. The TT-02 Type S isn't all that expensive and as far as I understand it, shouldn't really need any/many upgrades other than the high speed gear set. Most of the hop ups just seem to be bling.

I suspect the most appropriate car for you would be something for the class you want to run in and something similar to what others are running at your local club.

If I was to buy an MTC, I've always liked Schumacher and spares are generally good from them. They have this at £220:

https://www.racing-cars.com/rc-models-2/cars/brand-brand=schumacher/cars-2wd-4wd=4wd/neon-mtc-s2-kit-k204?returnurl=%2frc-models-2%2fcars%2fbrand-brand%3dschumacher%2fcars-2wd-4wd%3d4wd%2f

No idea if its any good though. Although it is £100 more than the TT-02 Type S I bought.