Brushless equivalent to the Silver Can

[magnumb 257]

Are there any brushless motors that would be close to the sliver can as far as torque/speed and maybe price..

Looking for a brushless motor that is easier on the drivetrain, but will get better runtime and not have to worry about cleaning the motor after mud runs.

But maybe i'm asking for too much as decent sensorless motor and esc is probably a lot more than a silvercan and a 1060ESC 

[alvinlwh 8062]

This had been asked many times and the answer you will get is "they are not directly comparable". The closest will be 17.5t or 21.5t in terms of RPM. 

[Pylon80 4309]

A 25.5 is similar power. But the budget will be about 3 to 4 fold. Also there's a very large difference in gearing requirements as the 25.5 will need a considerably taller gearing (lower FDR) compared to a silver can and which not all chassis can accommodate easily if at all.

[magnumb 257]

Looks like i'll have to stick with the good ole silver can for the eternity of my life:) Could be a lot worse! 

[Pylon80 4309]

I hear you about dust/dirt ingress. I run the Formula Tuned motor on my Group C for the Endurance Racing by Post. At the end of the 30 min race time the motor usually makes terrible grinding noises and it's already time to remove it from the car, remove the brushes, spray, oil, reinstall... Maintenance time really adds up. But I can't justify another 100$ BL system in that car. And I'm trying to keep the vintage 'vibe' since it's a pan car on foam tires after all.

[SlideWRX 1076]

Most of the Generic brushless combos on amazon that go for around $40-50 USD seem to be ~3000kV or faster, which means significantly faster than a stock 540 (around 2200KV).  You could always turn down the throttle, but the temptation is always there...    Actual motors at the same speed (17.5 or so) seem to be for stock class competition, so a little more expensive oddly enough.

[magnumb 257]

Would be nice if someone could come out with brushless system for these older Tamiya platforms. Something that keeps the character of the car but also provides more run time and less maintenance....Maybe a 380 sized brushless system with an adapter plate. Would also lighten things up which would be nice as well. 

[skom25 2667]

I do not see reason to install brushless system, to achieve performance of Silver Can. I tried Silver Can in XV-01 and it was boooring...

I found that cheapest brushless Hobbywing ESC + Motor is around 90 Euros. For that price you can buy HW1060 Brushed ESC and around e.g. five Torque Tuned motors.

If you expect mud around motor area, I believe you will have bigger problems than worn motor. Everything will be damaged really quick, when dirt start to grind all moving parts and bearings.

Runtime: TT-02 with Torque Tuned motor and 3300 NiMh pack lasts for about 20-30 minutes of constant running.

[Twinfan 2468]

I agree.  Here in the UK it's £7 for a silver can and £15 for a THW-1060-RTR.

A Hobbywing 10BL120 is £50 and a 3650G2 motor is also £50.

That's a lot of sliver can replacements for the same money.........

[CMshooter 169]

I put a 21.5 brushless in the Bt01 just to make it more driveable.  Being able to turn down the brakes and punch was needed.

[skom25 2667]

1 hour ago, CMshooter said:

I put a 21.5 brushless in the Bt01 just to make it more driveable.  Being able to turn down the brakes and punch was needed.

You can do more or less the same with brushed set, using radio settings.

[CMshooter 169]

8 hours ago, skom25 said:

You can do more or less the same with brushed set, using radio settings.

Not with an old Futaba Magnum Sport.

[Kowalski86 5012]

20 hours ago, SlideWRX said:

Most of the Generic brushless combos on amazon that go for around $40-50 USD seem to be ~3000kV or faster, which means significantly faster than a stock 540 (around 2200KV). 

I've been using a 3300kv Surpass system myself, $30 for both the motor and ESC. It's a bit quicker than even a 15t brushed motor, but it runs significantly cooler and longer.

I'd just pick up one of those and turn the power down, the escs aren't anything special, but I'm pretty sure that my "Surpass" setup came with a "Hobbywing" motor.

[skom25 2667]

15 hours ago, CMshooter said:

Not with an old Futaba Magnum Sport.

So maybe instead of Brushless set, it is better to buy modern radio?

It will not be the same as ESC settings probably, but you can tune car a lot with Dual Rate, EPA and Exponential settings.

[cyclonecap 86]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007805655296.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004840346411.html

 

These two are probably the cheapest option for sensored system, around 3x the cost of a brushed setup but worth it in my opinion.

[njmlondon 820]

Can anyone explain what the benefits are of sensored vs sensorless?

I have to find a motor for my M08 for postal racing. I am not looking to go too fast but figured I may give brushless a go and was looking at 2200 motors.

[Twinfan 2468]

1 hour ago, njmlondon said:

Can anyone explain what the benefits are of sensored vs sensorless?

I have to find a motor for my M08 for postal racing. I am not looking to go too fast but figured I may give brushless a go and was looking at 2200 motors.

Sensorless can cog (not respond to controls or stutter), sensored solves this and is generally smoother in control and operation.

That's my understanding anyway.

[OnTheTrail 1417]

On 1/17/2025 at 4:58 PM, magnumb said:

Would be nice if someone could come out with brushless system for these older Tamiya platforms. Something that keeps the character of the car but also provides more run time and less maintenance....Maybe a 380 sized brushless system with an adapter plate. Would also lighten things up which would be nice as well. 

This is a great idea.  Or even better (i.e. wishful thinking ) perhaps would be a 380 size motor with a built in ESC (think HW Quicrun Fusion ) that the overall length with the built in esc is similar to the a 540 brushed.   Basically a direct drop-in size that's comparable in power/torgue/motor bolt pattern.   

[magnumb 257]

Interesting combo and price. Looks to be a 380 sized motor...just wish could get it at around 2300kv

 

Hobbywing QuicRun 10BL120 G2 Sensorless Brushless ESC/3660SL [HWA38030210] - AMain Hobbies

 

 

[magnumb 257]

Interesting motor. 380 sized @ 2500kv. But open design and pricey. Need this in a closed can and about half the price. 

Surpass Hobby USA | Rocket Supersonic 380 17.5t 2500Kv Sensored Brushless Motor SS380-17.5

 

 

 

 

[dannymulder 1126]

buy something like this motor is basically a 380 motor in a 540 can, these motors are cheap, buy the lowest 3000kv version, they are a little faster but not super fast.

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005007453104205.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller.5.73119ZHI9ZHIbd&gps-id=pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40196.422467.0&scm_id=1007.40196.422467.0&scm-url=1007.40196.422467.0&pvid=f5061d13-4788-415c-8f6f-8544c76981b2&_t=gps-id:pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40196.422467.0,pvid:f5061d13-4788-415c-8f6f-8544c76981b2,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238107%231934&pdp_npi=4%40dis!EUR!25.37!16.49!!!186.68!121.34!%40211b612817373974890758201e051b!12000040818933604!rec!NL!751247182!XZ&utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller|query_from%3A

[Wooders28 5137]

On 1/19/2025 at 3:33 PM, njmlondon said:

Can anyone explain what the benefits are of sensored vs sensorless?

How I understand it..

In Sensorless, the esc guesstimates motor rotation ,based on the none energised coil, sending a small voltage back to it (when you pass a magnet over a coil, it produces electricity). When the motor first starts, the esc looks for this signal to make sure its going the correct direction. Normally you don't really notice as it's milliseconds, but if the battery can't provide the oomph and/or tall gearing ,it stutters, or 'cogs' as it searches for position. The motors are measured in KV, which is RPM per volt (unloaded).

Sensored use a 360° position sensor/encoder on the end of the motor, this tells the esc exactly where to motor position is, so zero guesswork, and smooth running from zero rpm. As the esc knows the exact motor position, you can (depending on the esc) add controlled motor timing through the rev range (boost) and/or at full throttle (turbo) to almost double the 'KV' of the standard motor if desired.

The sensor and extra esc capabilities, means the sensored is more expensive though..

 

On 1/19/2025 at 5:00 PM, OnTheTrail said:

This is a great idea.  Or even better (i.e. wishful thinking ) perhaps would be a 380 size motor with a built in ESC (think HW Quicrun Fusion ) that the overall length with the built in esc is similar to the a 540 brushed.   Basically a direct drop-in size that's comparable in power/torgue/motor bolt pattern.   

As mentioned,  there's the finned 540 motors, that have the RPM of brushless, but not a great deal of torque.

I run a 4370kv 9T Skyrc Leopard set up in a Lunchbox (with a steel Hornet pinion, to take some bite out)