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Dreadneck

Frog vs Beetle. What is exchangeable?

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Just wondered if it would be possible to swap parts between a Frog and a Monster Beetle?

They seem to be built on the same chassis at least. Would it be possible to swap wheels or body shell? To be more precise, can I put MB wheels and body on a frog? I expect some kind of modifications of course!

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yes, the main chassis is identical.

and one can put MB wheels and body on a Frog, expected modifications being the front suspension, uprights, shock tower, body mounts, and appropriate driveline gearing. OEM or otherwise. 
 

after all that, it’s probably easier and as affordable to buy a complete MB kit. 

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8 minutes ago, ADRay1000 said:

yes, the main chassis is identical.

and one can put MB wheels and body on a Frog, expected modifications being the front suspension, uprights, shock tower, body mounts, and appropriate driveline gearing. OEM or otherwise. 
 

after all that, it’s probably easier and as affordable to buy a complete MB kit. 

Thank you!

The reason I ask I because I'm interested in taking on a fixer upper. I got the chance on a frog or a MB. The frog is much more complete and would in a way make more sense to rebuild. However I'm not afraid of a challenge and it would be kind of cool to build a mashup of the two. Like an MB that is lowered in the front (keeping the frog front wheels?) and more MB like in the rear.

I am new to this however so I might be dreaming too big 😅

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cool! only thing I’d say is that the MB wheels would need extra clearance so they don’t hit the body. either in raising the height of the body, or widening the rear axels. also, I have mounted a beetle body on a Frog using a Brat front body mount. it sets it a little high, but it doesn’t require cutting the body to clear the suspension tie rods

IMG_1042.jpeg

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8 hours ago, Dreadneck said:

Just wondered if it would be possible to swap parts between a Frog and a Monster Beetle?

They seem to be built on the same chassis at least. Would it be possible to swap wheels or body shell? To be more precise, can I put MB wheels and body on a frog? I expect some kind of modifications of course!

They are mostly the same car.  The major difference is the front suspension and the transmission.

To put MB wheels on the Frog, you'll need to chop the front bumper or find an ultra-rare RacePrep bumper extension.  You'll also have to replace the metal steering knuckles with Hornet knuckles and replace the axle with the longer BF ones (and fix the bumpsteer).  Or you can find a CRP long wheel nut kit.

As for the body, you could use the MB front shock mount and body mount, or a Parma Frog body mount kit, or lower the Beetle body slightly by using a Brat front mount (modified).  All this kinda depends on the look you're going for, and how creative you are.

I recommend DLing manuals for both and starting there. 

Terry

 

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13 hours ago, ADRay1000 said:

cool! only thing I’d say is that the MB wheels would need extra clearance so they don’t hit the body. either in raising the height of the body, or widening the rear axels. also, I have mounted a beetle body on a Frog using a Brat front body mount. it sets it a little high, but it doesn’t require cutting the body to clear the suspension tie rods

IMG_1042.jpeg

Awesome! I have been thinking of something I saw on a Blackfoot once, where the rear bumpers is more of a 45° angle rather than laying down as on a MB. That would raise the rear a bit right?

5 hours ago, Frog Jumper said:

They are mostly the same car.  The major difference is the front suspension and the transmission.

To put MB wheels on the Frog, you'll need to chop the front bumper or find an ultra-rare RacePrep bumper extension.  You'll also have to replace the metal steering knuckles with Hornet knuckles and replace the axle with the longer BF ones (and fix the bumpsteer).  Or you can find a CRP long wheel nut kit.

As for the body, you could use the MB front shock mount and body mount, or a Parma Frog body mount kit, or lower the Beetle body slightly by using a Brat front mount (modified).  All this kinda depends on the look you're going for, and how creative you are.

I recommend DLing manuals for both and starting there. 

Terry

 

So it seems the sky is the limit? 😊 A Parma Frog is unfamiliar to me. I'll google!

I'm thinking a monster buggy kind of. With the lower front and raised rear end. In the best of worlds I'd like to somehow fit the rear frog tires as front and have MB tires as rear. It think that would be a cool look.

I'll look into all these great tips! Widening the axels is the bread and butter it seems? Besides the body mounts. I like the idea of using a brat mount in the front!

 

Just to get it out of my system; how difficult would it be turning this into a 4x4? I have a feeling this chassis is a poor starting point for that.

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Some cool ideas there! 

So, a couple of recommendations: Have a look at the showrooms over on the main part of the site: https://www.tamiyaclub.com/mainshowroombrowse.asp as I'm sure I've seen a Sand Scorcher or Frog with the rear tyres on the front and Monster Beetle tyres on the back. There my be some hints as to how they did it.

As @Frog Jumper said, download the manuals (again can be done via the main site, or off the Tamiya site I think as they are both current models) as this should give you a good idea of what fits where and how. There are several options to do what you are thinking of, it's really just up to you how far you want to go with it, and it may help you decide which one to use to start off with.

I may be wrong (someone will point it out if I am! ;) ) but if you want to put the rear Frog tyres on the front, you could keep the Frog steering and front suspension, as I don't think you will have the clearance issues as if you were to put the Monster Beetle tyres on. You would need the Monster Beetle front hubs I think, as you'll need the extra spindle length to fit the rear hub adapter and wheel on. 

I think you'd need the Monster Beetle outer axles at the rear too, again for the extra spindle length. 

Parma is a manufacturer who made hop-ups for models like the Frog, so there isn't a model, just parts. There are some other manufacturers such as RC Channel and T4Works.tokyo who make parts you might be interested in. Places like RCMArt and RCJaz or AsiaTees also have loads of parts available.

4WD might be a step too far! :blink: :D I've recently been playing around with modifying a Frog and I can assure you there isn't much room in the front of that chassis for steering stuff, let along another gearbox! I'm sure someone will prove me wrong and find someone that has done it though! To be honest though, there are loads of better options of existing 4WD chassis' that could be converted to create something that would look similar to what you want with a lot less hassle and swearing but still provide a fun engineering challenge.

If you get stuck downloading the manuals let me know and I'll try and send them over to you.

Keeps us updated though, sounds like it should be fun! :) 👍

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The ORV platform is nice to play with :)
Some of the mods I did in the past.

Monster Citroën 2CV:

XuuXzpBm.jpg

Mono-shock front (using the chassis internal springs of the Frog):

spacer.png

SubaFord BratFoot:

spacer.png

(video of a race we had w/ my Bro and his Scorcher - excellent memories :) : Youtube link )

Lowered body, no suspension, giant tires:

spacer.png

 

Once I've seen a 4x4 ORV and if I recall correctly, it was belt driven. From one of the diff output to the front between the control arms. Or was it with a cable, as MIP did for the RC10? I should have saved the pictures at the time. Very creative anyway.

As others said above, almost everything is possible as long as you have the manuals for parts references :)

Edited by Mouc-RC
Better picture
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So, the rebuild of my Frog Beetle mashup has begun!

Let's start from the beginning with some before shots:

Screenshot_20250201_120404_Tradera.thumb.jpg.26d0271291e141da2f6979819ecc18d8.jpgScreenshot_20250201_120410_Tradera.thumb.jpg.7807f3459ad0b8c7f5330885933c93d8.jpgScreenshot_20250201_120416_Tradera.thumb.jpg.50b799085ea0879165deb162d504e009.jpgScreenshot_20250201_120429_Tradera.thumb.jpg.e257fa2368adc3edd006dd829fed29b8.jpg

Screenshot_20250201_120436_Tradera.thumb.jpg.6e49f166076516080826c4a5a6b52d2c.jpg

As you can see, it is in pretty rough shape. But it is clear that it has been deeply loved and the previous owner has gone through massive repairs to keep it going.

Many of the original plastic parts has been replaced with replicas made from a wood laminate (that I do not know the English name for) and metal plates that has begun to rust.

What I didn't realize until just now is that it has been modified with wider front wheels. And slightly narrowed rear tires.

Honestly I think it looks awesome. But I do love the Madmax-ish look. However the body is trash, the wood parts is trash, the strange metal wire frame is trash.... So that leaves about 2/3 of a chassis to play with.

The motor seems to turn fine and the gears looks like they are in decent shape. However the gearbox was FULL of a mixture of oil and dirt. It took more than elbow grease to clean that mess up.

I will try to use the motor that sits on it and hope it really does work.

The old mechanical speed control will finally retire and make room for a modern esc. Though I am thinking about trying the servos to see if one of them at least is up for the task still.

At this very moment the entire rc is in parts, cleaned and organized.

Continuation follows shortly...

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Work has started!

20250131_133240.thumb.jpg.9ac49fb1097764d518d5d8f9714134b5.jpg

New parts for the project has arrived!

20250131_133330.thumb.jpg.42f71c173788838e7cb812881415e1a1.jpg

Manuals for the different Frog versions and the 2015 Beetle. Check!

I ordered new screw bags that would fit the original frog since many of the screws where torn and damaged or replaced with regular household screws.

I also ordered the standard spikey rear frog tires which I hope will fit on the front hubs that sat on the rc. They are the exact same size as the rear hubs but with the benefit of having the large slots for bearings like regular front hubs.

I also ordered tires and hubs for the MB that will sit on the rear end.

So the rc will have a low front high rear configuration.

I also scored a Sand Scorcher body that I will fit on the chassis. It will (in my mind so far at least) go in the colors of black and camel yellow. Not so far from the frog body it came with.

I have ordered parts to build a MB rear and parts to maintain a frog front. I do have a Brat body mount I can use in the front.

I was also thinking of sticking with the frog front suspension to make it a bit easier for myself.

To be continued.. 

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Those rear tire are from the Lancia ORV and the fronts are from the Brat.  The wheels themselves are Brat wheels, which are 1.7” size.  The Frog rear tires are 1.5” size.  You *might* be able to stretch the over the insert piece but it will be very hard.  There are a few 1.7” tire options from 3rd party sellers (Proline or Aristocraft) that are 1.7”.  But they are generally rare and can be expensive.

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I love the on/off toggle switch on the roof. I assume its for the christmas lights on the wing???

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I don’t want to discourage you, or rain on your parade.  But when I rebuilt my 40 year old Frog a few years ago, I found that a lot of the plastics had become brittle with age.  I had also done the toolbox screws replacement and found the threads on my OG frame were stripped or messed up.  I ended up replacing almost all of the parts with ReRe or new parts.

But again, I don’t want to discourage you.  Actually I think this is a good exercise so you can really learn the ins-and-outs of the ORV.  But expect some setbacks and some “this is a pile of garbage!” frustration.  Lol!

 

 

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now that I see the car your’re starting with, my inclination would be to leave what you have alone and shelve it. That thing is funky! digging all the homebrew mods. 

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2 hours ago, Frog Jumper said:

I love the on/off toggle switch on the roof. I assume its for the christmas lights on the wing???

Yes it is! I also think it adds something cool to the look.

 

2 hours ago, Frog Jumper said:

I don’t want to discourage you, or rain on your parade.  But when I rebuilt my 40 year old Frog a few years ago, I found that a lot of the plastics had become brittle with age.  I had also done the toolbox screws replacement and found the threads on my OG frame were stripped or messed up.  I ended up replacing almost all of the parts with ReRe or new parts.

But again, I don’t want to discourage you.  Actually I think this is a good exercise so you can really learn the ins-and-outs of the ORV.  But expect some setbacks and some “this is a pile of garbage!” frustration.  Lol!

 

 

I am aware of that and I checked it pretty thoroughly. No signs of weakness but that doesn't mean it can't break like a twig from a bit of bashing.... I know there are several screw holes that has been enlarged etc but I can handle that. As luck has it, I'm pretty handy. Though a complete noob at rc, so as you say, this will definitely be a learning experience!

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2 hours ago, ADRay1000 said:

now that I see the car your’re starting with, my inclination would be to leave what you have alone and shelve it. That thing is funky! digging all the homebrew mods. 

I know!!! I feel the same way! But it really is in horrible shape and it does look healthier in pictures than irl. It would be a pain to get it to run and hold up as it looks in the pictures.

I'm torn....

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Throwing MB tires on with frog gearing will smoke 540 motors.  Just made that mistake awhile back putting together another blackfoot from spare parts.  My math seemed like the gearing should be ok just running up and down the road, it wasn't.  

 

 

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9 hours ago, CMshooter said:

Throwing MB tires on with frog gearing will smoke 540 motors.  Just made that mistake awhile back putting together another blackfoot from spare parts.  My math seemed like the gearing should be ok just running up and down the road, it wasn't.  

 

 

Ok!! That is very good info! What would you recommend?

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13 hours ago, Dreadneck said:

Ok!! That is very good info! What would you recommend?

I ended up with stock blackfoot gears and motor mount.  Adjustable mount always had motor touching trailing arms and would not travel right.  I went to lower profile tires, and drilled transmission up one size in the mount screw holes to go up one tooth in pinion.  I think it is a nos 11 tooth aftermarket Thorp. 

All this to say, smaller tires match the I think 13 tooth stock pinion as is.  

 

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10 hours ago, CMshooter said:

I ended up with stock blackfoot gears and motor mount.  Adjustable mount always had motor touching trailing arms and would not travel right.  I went to lower profile tires, and drilled transmission up one size in the mount screw holes to go up one tooth in pinion.  I think it is a nos 11 tooth aftermarket Thorp. 

All this to say, smaller tires match the I think 13 tooth stock pinion as is.  

 

So, in conclusion: I should rebuild to a MB/BF gearbox and pinion?

Should I opt for a 10t pinion which (I believe) is stock MB/BF? I do not know the size of the other gears though. I know the frog originally came with options but I do not have them.

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If I use this (I'm about to order):

10T pinion and 52T counter

The rest would be fine right? I'm scanning the manuals and those two are the only places they count teeth.

 

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22 minutes ago, Frog Jumper said:

Yes but you need axle extensions.

This is something I hear a lot around mod threads. What exactly does that mean? Replace the existing axles or are there parts to make them longer?

What would I use in that case?

I know I could google but I do not know what to look for.

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