4WD buggy suggestions...

[RC_Hobbyist]

I am almost done building the Hornet EVO Kit (All I have to do is finish assembling the rear suspension, then attaching the front/rear suspension to the chassis) & getting the wheels/tires).
I have really enjoyed putting the Hornet EVO together. 

For my next build, I would like to put together a 4WD buggy. Keeping in mind that I do realize putting together a 4WD buggy is a bit more complicated as compared to a 2WD.

Keeping the above in mind, I am looking on which tamiya 4WD buggy I should buy as a beginner.

[Twinfan]

Thunder Dragon or Fire Dragon or Saint Dragon or Thunder Shot or Terra Scorcher.  They're all the same basic chassis, and some are fancier than others.

Or the Top Force or Manta Ray which are possibly more readily available than some of the above and slightly better performers.

[DearHighRacingClub]

Hotshot is quite a fun build with it's two mono shocks and complicated linkage. I'ts also one of the easiest to paint

And it's the best looking Tamiya buggy. This is not debatable

[Frog Jumper]

I vote for a Fire Dragon...

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Frog Jumper said:

I vote for a Fire Dragon...

Is that yours? It is fabulous and I now want one. 

[TurnipJF]

1 hour ago, RC_Hobbyist said:

I am almost done building the Hornet EVO Kit (All I have to do is finish assembling the rear suspension, then attaching the front/rear suspension to the chassis) & getting the wheels/tires).
I have really enjoyed putting the Hornet EVO together. 

For my next build, I would like to put together a 4WD buggy. Keeping in mind that I do realize putting together a 4WD buggy is a bit more complicated as compared to a 2WD.

Keeping the above in mind, I am looking on which tamiya 4WD buggy I should buy as a beginner.

Are you looking to race or just drive for fun?

What sort of terrain are you planning to drive on?

Classic or modern?

How did you find the Hornet Evo build? About the right level of complexity for you, or are you looking to step it up a bit?

How important are looks? Are you wanting to display it on a shelf when not in use?

Anything else you can tell us about what you want from your new buggy?

[Frog Jumper]

37 minutes ago, NUFCRc said:

Is that yours? It is fabulous and I now want one. 

Yes, its mine. 

I'm thinking of selling it, if you might be interested.  

You can search for my Terry's Reduced Funds dragon build thread...

Terry

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Frog Jumper said:

Yes, its mine. 

I'm thinking of selling it, if you might be interested.  

You can search for my Terry's Reduced Funds dragon build thread...

Terry

If I can raise some funds then badword yes I'll take it. I am in the UK though, would you be cool posting it to this crazy little island? 

[Frog Jumper]

12 minutes ago, NUFCRc said:

If I can raise some funds then badword yes I'll take it. I am in the UK though, would you be cool posting it to this crazy little island? 

I haven't put much thought into selling it.  I wouldn't know how much to ask.

All I've done is think to myself that I need to make room for more hobby stuff, and it doesn't get the love it deserves.

But I'll do some thinking this weekend, and I'll let you know.

Terry

 

[RC_Hobbyist]

Are you looking to race or just drive for fun?
 For fun.

What sort of terrain are you planning to drive on?
Both On/0ff-road (In fact I bought a pair of RC Dual Block Tires K rears for my Hornet for that purpose)

Classic or modern?
Classic (Including re-releases or even 2024 releases)

How did you find the Hornet Evo build? About the right level of complexity for you, or are you looking to step it up a bit?
It was a straight forward build for me, except for the small parts (I suffer from essential tremors), so when I came across small parts, I would take it to my local Hobby Shop for assistance.
I would like to step it up a bit, but if they have 4WD kits on par with the Hornet, I will look into those as well.

How important are looks? Are you wanting to display it on a shelf when not in use?
Not necessarily, as I do not have any shelf space left due to my vast lego collection.

Anything else you can tell us about what you want from your new buggy?
Not off the top of my head. If I do, I will update this post

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Frog Jumper said:

I haven't put much thought into selling it.  I wouldn't know how much to ask.

All I've done is think to myself that I need to make room for more hobby stuff, and it doesn't get the love it deserves.

But I'll do some thinking this weekend, and I'll let you know.

Terry

 

Absolutely no problem at all sir. 😀 

[Juggular]

1 hour ago, RC_Hobbyist said:

(I suffer from essential tremors)

I was prescribed propranolol for it.  I had heard of my friend using the med before speaking in front of a large crowd.  I never thought I'd need that, but the tremor started to happen out of the blue.  At least the medication is only like $5 a month, and even half a pill seems to get rid of the tremors entirely for a day or two. 

As for 4wd, DF-01 Manta Ray is old but good.  Hotshot was great 40 years ago. But I would not recommend it as a daily basher. It's a bit complicated, which was its selling point. But in my opinion, the monoshocks didn't work all that great.  Boomerang or Bigwig works better.  DF-02 is newer 4WD, but not necessarily better than DF-01 in terms of driving characteristics.  DF-02 is nearly identical to TT-01.  I don't have DF-03, which is the newest.  Even that is over 10 years, I think.  It's a bit more complicated to build with tiny spacers and whatnot.  

If you want to go all technical, everyone likes XV-01, though it's a 4WD rally car (it has lower ground clearance and less movements in suspension arms, but quite realistic).  

 

[TurnipJF]

+1 on Propranolol for the tremors. It works so well that I am not allowed to use it when taking part in archery competitions as it gives me an unfair advantage!

Given your answers to my previous questions, I'd say there are three strong contenders for your next buggy: the Thunder Shot family, the DF-01 family and the TT-02B family. Each family contains a few different models, all based off the same basic design, but with different body styles and/or different spec levels.

 

The Thunder Shot family (Thunder Shot, Thunder Dragon, Saint Dragon, Fire Dragon, Terra Scorcher, etc.)

 

These buggies are the oldest design of the three families, but have been re-released recently so spares availability isn't a problem. They date from the days of offroad racing on rough tracks, so feature high ground clearance, plentiful suspension travel, chassis covers to keep the muck out, and so forth. That said, with the right tyres and setup,  they work well on tarmac too. I campaign mine in the RBP series, and it performs quite nicely. There are a few known issues with the chassis such as the weak A5 part that joins the lower front suspension arms, the knobbly re-re gears that are noisy until bedded in, and the lower arms that are prone to flexing and going white over time, but these all have easy fixes that can be applied during the build to give you a stout and reliable car. Take a look here if you'd like to know more on this topic: 

 

The DF-01 family (Manta Ray, Dirt Thrasher, Terra Conqueror, Blazing Star, Top Force, etc)

Following on from the Thunder Shot and its relatives, this chassis shows how car design responded to race tracks becoming smoother, more prepared and more refined. Ground clearance and suspension travel aren't as great as on the Thunder Shot family and as a result the car doesn't have the same extreme rough-terrain capability as its predecessors, but the centre of gravity is lower and it is a better performer on smooth ground, with less body roll and the ability to hold more speed through the corners. The base models come with plastic tub chassis, with composite plate chassis being used on the higher end versions, but the gearboxes are the same across the range, and are also shared with the TA-01 and TA-02 touring/rally cars. With stock power there are no known issues, but with hotter motors the soft alloy idler gear wears quite quickly, the rear gearbox cover tries to lift and the motor mount tends to crack. The rugged plastic (nylon?) gearset from the TA-02 is a direct swap though, and aftermarket parts are available to address the gearbox cover and motor mount issues, so you can go wild on the power front if you want to.

 

The TT-02B family (Neo Scorcher, Dual Ridge, Plasma Edge II, TT-02BR, etc)

The most recently designed of my three suggestions, this is the buggy version of the TT-02 touring car, and as you might guess, is the most on-road-oriented of the three. It can handle short grass and small jumps, but is most at home on the flat. It is a fearsome performer on tarmac though, with its low, wide stance allowing high cornering speeds with minimal chance of rolling. It is also the chassis with the easiest build, simplest maintenance, best spares availability and fewest known issues that need to be addressed during the build. The rear diff ring gear can flex under high loads causing accelerated wear, but replacements are cheap and metal upgrades are available. The shock towers are also quite flexible, which is a double-edged sword - great for resilience in a crash, not so great for precise damping adjustments as the towers deflect before the shocks do. However composite towers are available to address this. There are loads of other upgrades available too, some of which are useful, some of which are more decorative in nature, and it can become a money pit if you aren't careful, but at the same time if carbon and alloy are your thing, this chassis has enormous scope in this regard.

[Big Jon]

I’m going to be the guy that recommends the TD4. What an enjoyable build, and it is really fun to drive. A big step up in build complexity, and plenty to fiddle with. I even enjoyed finishing the polarizing body with a driver figure and dash.

[Pizza Frog]

Hotshot II (the black version)

If I was looking for another 4wd then I'd be pouncing on this, the only reason why I'm holding back is because the Bigwig is also going to be available soon.  

[Saito2]

12 hours ago, RC_Hobbyist said:

Keeping the above in mind, I am looking on which tamiya 4WD buggy I should buy as a beginner.

From the first Tamiya family of 4wds, I'd follow @Pizza Frog's Hotshot II suggestion or the Boomerang. There aren't really any bugs to be worked out in either of these for a beginner. The Hotshot II probably has a higher parts count with its roll cage but both buggies share the same drivetrain. The problem areas would be the issues with small parts you mentioned. I could see the small screws the affix the ball plates to the front upper and lower suspension arms giving trouble and possibly the small silver set plates that are stacked in the motor mount to set the pinion mesh.

The second family of 4wds, the Thundershot series offers problems that I would avoid for a beginner. The A5 part mentioned needs braced or replaced with an alloy version. I wouldn't expect a beginner to be expected to sit with a sharp hobby knife carving the deformities from the prop shaft's bevel gears, carefully trimming and shaping affected teeth. The recent batch has plastic formulation issues with the blue nylon suspension arms splitting on impacts. Vintage parts don't have these problems. Lastly, there are e-clips in the suspension that might be difficult to install. All of these things can be overcome to make a very nice buggy but for someone as a beginner with tremors, I wouldn't recommend it.

The forth family (we're skipping the 3rd Avante family for the purposes of this discussion) is the DF01 series. Given the facts provided, the most basic of there models, the Manta Ray would probably suit the best. Their construction methods are newer and more streamlined. There are no tricky fasteners in the Manta Ray (e-clips are found in its big brother, the Top Force). While an alloy motor mount and the touring car all-plastic gearset (to remove the wear-prone aluminum gears in the rear gearbox) are recommended, they are not required to get the car up and running with its basic 540 silvercan motor. Its the best performer of the lot too.

None of this is to put down any of the other buggies. They all can be great (I have many multiples of each from each family and enjoy them all) but for a true off road 4wd that fits the needs given, my nod goes to the Manta Ray.

[Kowalski86]

15 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

None of this is to put down any of the other buggies. They all can be great (I have many multiples of each from each family and enjoy them all) but for a true off road 4wd that fits the needs given, my nod goes to the Manta Ray.

The crazy thing is that the Manta Ray is pretty cheap too, roughly about the same price as a TT-02B but with much better off-road performance.

That being said, the Boomerang/Hotshot have a more realistic look to them vs the more "nature inspired" designs of later buggies.

[Thommo]

This thread reminded me of the Blazing Star… Not helpful now with no re-release but up to about 2013 you could still get one for peanuts.  With CC01 tyres in the kit, it was a neighbourhood  beast out of the box..

[Andreas W]

Does the DF01 have sealed gear diffs? If yes that is a significant step up in my eyes. 

 

[matisse]

57 minutes ago, Andreas W said:

Does the DF01 have sealed gear diffs? If yes that is a significant step up in my eyes. 

 

It does not. The standard diffs are unsealed

[Wooders28]

I'd probably go boomerang.

Classic, not overly complicated, no problem getting parts, handles modern power.

Although, the TD4 is the same money atm...🤔

 

Saying that, this seems a bargain! 

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/tamiya-saint-dragon-4wd-2021-no-esc--1348297 

Then £30 for a 1060 and 15t firebolt/Corerc...

[TurnipJF]

2 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

Saying that, this seems a bargain! 

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/tamiya-saint-dragon-4wd-2021-no-esc--1348297 

Then £30 for a 1060 and 15t firebolt/Corerc...

At its current pricing, the Saint Dragon is very hard to beat in terms of value for money. 👍

I have tremors too, and while the e- clips are indeed a pain in the nether regions, they aren't an insurmountable barrier either - I'd rate them at a similar degree of fiddliness as the tiny nuts and bolts that hold the Hornet's wheels together. Also, once they're on, they're on. You don't need to remove them for routine maintenance, only to repair crash damage if any occurs, so I wouldn't say they put the chassis out of the running. 

[Howards]

DF01 Manta Ray for sure. Good out of the box, nothing so weak out off the box that you'll feel cheated when it breaks, good upgrade path and loads of aftermarket parts and mods, works on the track, doesn't look like a total dogs dinner*, currently £120 on Amazon (sorry). 

*I'm looking at you, Saint Dragon 4wd

[Andreas W]

Even though I love my Dragons I have to say it seems hard to get past the now nicely priced Manta Ray, which seems to only require bearings and otherwise seems fine out of the box. If it was me I would probably go for the Top Force instead, since I like the looks of the FRP double deck chassis (and the body has grown on me). Simply more hobbygrade for us grown-ups.

 

I now see that even here the Manta is almost as nicely priced as the cheapest Dragon, and the Top Force only 700 free falling NOK above that again. Not bad. 

 

[matisse]

7 hours ago, Howards said:

DF01 Manta Ray for sure. Good out of the box, nothing so weak out off the box that you'll feel cheated when it breaks, good upgrade path and loads of aftermarket parts and mods, works on the track, doesn't look like a total dogs dinner*, currently £120 on Amazon (sorry). 

*I'm looking at you, Saint Dragon 4wd

Agree, love the DF01, had all of em except the Terra Conquerer and still have a hankering to get one of those.