Hornet EVO vs DT04 - Which should I get?

[ThunderDragonCy]

Well, someone had to ask the obvious question! If you have noticed / read / put up with my other blathering you will know I have a Hornet Evo project in mind where I replace the whole rear end with something I designed. Designing it was fun, but it's definitely retreading some earlier paths for me. Although having a bolt on trans upgrade design for Hornet's and Grasshoppers might not be a bad thing in terms of selling a few?

On the other hand, although it would initially just be a straight kit build, the DT04 has really got my attention. It looks great with the cage, and all of the things I didn't like about my dt03 have been addressed. Plus it has these tantalising potential.options like different trans mounting holes and lots of body options. 

I am kind of into the idea of the Hornet Evo 2, but I actually never hugely liked the Hornet body. And I would be disgarding the evo back end (although could probably sell easily). Not using design work isn't an issue as that was fun in itself. On the other hand Dt04 would just be a kit build which is a bit dull to me, but has unknown future potential. And looks good value in comparison too. 

Thoughts? Which would you go for (for your own reasons)?

[Pablo68]

As a guy who's had a few Hornets over the decades, having a 'factory' improved Hornet is a bit of a buzz and an insta-buy. It was a very un-Tamiya move.
So yeah, there is a background or history which is why I got one. I could understand totally if someone who never had a Hornet, or even someone who did but is a purist, decided not to.

The DT04, I find it intriguing and the DT02 and DT03 were good, so I'm going to get one. I think it would be more appealing to someone who wants something new from Tamiya.

So there you have it. Me not answering your question. I swear I did mean to.
 

[Wooders28]

Not having either, I can't give 1st hand view, but from what I've read, it's the rear end that some aren't liking on the Evo?

So from a pure marketing point, and full rear end conversion could well be a great seller ? 

 

1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

all of the things I didn't like about my dt03 have been addressed

For me, the only thing I don't like, is the lack of a slipper for modern power.

I'm needing to download the DT04 manual, and see how much is actually different, and if a can just convert one of my current DT03's.

[Juggular]

Wait a minute... I was away for a while and I see "DT04" in a thread.  

DT-04?  

And I find it... 

 

AND a DRIVER!!  (The lame naming continues... but I think they were going for a cheaper, cuter Fighter Buggy, so I'm letting it go) 

I forget why the Hornet Evo didn't turn me on.  But this looks interesting... (it feels like DT-3.1.  It could be just be a shortened chassis, strengthened front towers and a recycled gearbox).  But shortening the wheelbase could do a lot...  At any rate, I'm glad to know that this is coming. Thanks for letting those of us in the dark know, @ThunderDragonCy.

Can a regular shorty pack work, I wonder? 

 

[JimBear]

I am holding out, gnashing teeth and waiting patiently for the Evo Evo, with the Top Force "Squashed Toad" body. Preferably in extra-toady green.

Yes, I am kidding, honest!

It's all theory here:

I think the price point is better for the DT-04, the possible body choices and I like the idea of the panels, maybe one can change up/modify them into something cool? Initially, I liked the idea of the Hornet upgrade, but the price and the motor hanging out got me off that wagon. I have no doubts that it may be a better-performing car, but the orginal Grasshopper/Hornet primitivism appeals more to me, cheap and fun.

Looking forward to see what sprouts in spring.

[BuggyDad]

Interesting question. Although you say the DT would just be a kit build, we know you don't we?! Surely a trans change isn't just on the cards but a certainty? Wanna borrow a complete BBX trans just to see if it fits? That thing is crying out to be a whole new testbed for ideas. It'd be fun also to see you blaze a trail with a new platform. Did I read it was designed to take some other existing bodies too? Sand Viper? 

For my money, Hornet EVO is a thing you've largely already done and you know what else you'd do. And while it's a factory version it also presumably won't have gone as far as you have in some ways I guess? Interesting you don't much like the Hornet body though - for me it's the quintessential Tamiya. I always felt there was one in my future. Counter to any sensible logic the EVO doesn't increase my likelihood of having one though just because it's kind of "done". Well, and I also agree it's just kind of wrong to have the motor hanging out the back of a Hornet. 

[Saito2]

In the US, the Hornet Evo is about $167, only a couple more bucks than a re-re Hornet. The DT03 sits at $150 and the DT02 (Sand Viper) at $175. I imagine the DT04 street price might sit between the two and it doesn't have the bearings that the Evo does.

Since Christmas was cancelled at our house and the ol' birthday was coming up, I caved and got a Hornet Evo. I also needed a little retail therapy to distract from our slip from an oligarchy into straight authoritarianism. I tried to avoid it. I didn't care for the transmission hanging out the back or the wider front end. At one point, I had my DT02 and Hornet in pieces, trying to merge the two by flipping the DT02 gearbox around to make it mid-motor. It wouldn't work without hacking up the Hornet tub, something I wasn't willing to do.

Being in the same boat, why did I go Evo over DT04? Well, with the same gearbox and suspension assemblies, the DT04 truly, functionally at least, only offered two things above my DT02 : an increase in kickup from 15 to 22.5 degrees and a better steering system. My DT02 suspension stays roughly approximate the DT04's shock positions. I also find the the DT series to be perfectly serviceable but bland on a personal level. The Hornet Evo is a weird hybrid of old and new but still "imperfect" enough to have character for me.

Considering your other Hornet/Grasshopper based builds (and not caring for the Hornet body) and the fact the DT04 could be a nice blank slate to really build off of, I'd consider the DT04 in your case.

PS, I almost jumped on a Kyosho Dirt Master for $170 which would have been superior to both but my old TRF201 was boring for me to drive and I couldn't imagine the Dirt Master being much different. That gives you an idea where my mind is at.

[kiasukid]

If I were buying a new kit, DT-04 hands down over the Hornet Evo. Somehow the Hornet Evo doesn’t look right to me, such as the extra cutout in the body to accommodate the gearbox, and the track being wider on the front.

Perhaps you don’t have to buy a new kit at all, and instead build either car from parts you may already have?

You may already have a DT-02 or DT-03, or be able to find one new or used pretty cheaply. While I haven’t seen the DT-04 manual yet, it looks like the new body and other parts are in 51755, 51756 and 51757, plus the chassis. Arms and gearbox are the same as per DT-02 and 03.

Assuming you have a Hornet or Grasshopper chassis already, it looks like you’d only need the E parts from the Hornet Evo kit to join the DT-02/03 gearbox to the Hornet chassis.

Personally I’m most keen on the DT-04 B parts (51755) as I think it’ll make it easy to use hex wheels on the front of eg. the Sand/Street Rover.

[ThunderDragonCy]

@Juggular Happy to have brought it to your attention. These are all the reasons why I like it. 

As for everyone else, if you missed my idea for the Hornet EVO, it would be to ditch the rear trans completely, and replace it with a Thundershot trans (2 gear mid as per original Hornet) and 3D printed suspension arms to fix the width but still use the old balloon style tyres. I think the front end is interesting and would potentially work great, so it would be cool, and I've never done the balloon tyre thing on any of my other conversions, but it really would be quite close to Ultra G. 

@Saito2 I think I might be leaning in the DT04 direction for all the reasons you mention, but the rear motor on the Hornet Evo does make my teeth itch, and I would really like to do it 'properly' in my eyes. Hmmm.....

@BuggyDad Ha! You know me too well, and if I do pick up a DT04 the first thing to check is if a BBX trans fits! This is the thing: There are all these potential things that could be fun to muck about with. 

@kiasukid I have a fully hopped up DT03 truck, but I hardly ever drive it now. I really need to sell it, as I can't imagine buying the tube and body piecemeal will end up much cheaper than a whole DT04 kit, and I would get at least a chunk towards buying the DT04 by selling my DT03. I like that they have released the upgrade parts for the suspension and steering though. 

Everyone else, thanks for the thoughts. Keep 'em coming.

[Juls1]

I had the hornet evo in my cart waiting, then. The dt04 showed up, now the car is empty and waiting. Always been a DT fan, dt01 fighter buggy was my first car as a young teenager, i had a variety of cars before i had a dt02, was surprised by the fun i had with that, dt03 has been a great sand rail for the beach, so the dt04 just has to not only be on the shelf but get some use too. I never had a hornet so there isn’t really a good connection in it for me. But i know there is many thousands if people who did have a hornet and i’m glad the evo exists for them. 

[Eric Bloodsmith]

I think between the alternate gearbox mounting and other tuning, you'll have more fun with the dt-04.

[ABigChungus]

I like the Hornet Evo but it is very under steery and I haven't run it as much as I thought I might. It's definitely good as like a proof of concept car though! A Japanese Youtuber i watch actually said at her club, racers prefer the orignal Hornet as "The Evo drives like a begginers car, and the original Hornet requires a lot more skill (!!!) and finesse (!!!) to race"!!! 

[MadAtComputer]

1 minute ago, ABigChungus said:

I like the Hornet Evo but it is very under steery and I haven't run it as much as I thought I might. It's definitely good as like a proof of concept car though! A Japanese Youtuber i watch actually said at her club, racers prefer the orignal Hornet as "The Evo drives like a begginers car, and the original Hornet requires a lot more skill (!!!) and finesse (!!!) to race)!!! 

From what I have read and watched stiffer front spring seems to help the understeer on the EVO a lot.

[ABigChungus]

Just now, MadAtComputer said:

From what I have read and watched stiffer front spring seems to help the understeer on the EVO a lot.

It seems like a lot of experimenting is needed! I've got blue stiff springs on the front of mine and it's helped a little...next thing might be weights in the front! It's a good runner but it could turn a lot tighter.

[MadAtComputer]

1 minute ago, ABigChungus said:

It seems like a lot of experimenting is needed! I've got blue stiff springs on the front of mine and it's helped a little...next thing might be weights in the front! It's a good runner but it could turn a lot tighter.

 I wonder if the wider front track that the rear causes some of the issue. I've not messed with many r/c buggies other than a grasshopper lol

[ABigChungus]

Just now, MadAtComputer said:

 I wonder if the wider front track that the rear causes some of the issue. I've not messed with many r/c buggies other than a grasshopper lol

Possible. I think its just kind of a case of experimenting with springs, wheels, tyres, weights etc until it's right for you😅From what I've watched of the Japanese racers, it's quite hard to nail the Evo.

[ThunderDragonCy]

Much wider front track than rear will take grop away from the front. That is what I want to fix by doing a build! Dammit I still don't know what to do!

[MadAnt]

Pick the Hornet EVO. Most of the work is already done for you if you want a modified Hornet.

[kiasukid]

If I were mounting an alternative rear gearbox on the Hornet/GH I’d go with the Top Force/TA01/02 gearbox - parts are plentiful and there are different options for the diff. There aren’t any upgrades for the Thundershot diffs AFAIK, plus the re-re TS gears are badly moulded.

[Andreas W]

Even though your interpretation of the Hornet Evo with TD gearbox would have been superb I want to see you take on the TD4. I want to see BBX gearbox and maybe a Bear Hawk body or maybe a Nikko Bison F10-hommage. 

[Pablo68]

9 hours ago, ABigChungus said:

It seems like a lot of experimenting is needed! I've got blue stiff springs on the front of mine and it's helped a little...next thing might be weights in the front! It's a good runner but it could turn a lot tighter.

I have an Evo, finished building the chassis and something that I noticed in pics of this car is screaming out at me. The camber on the front wheels is off. The have a positive camber (top of wheels sticking out more than the bottom) rather than negative camber. If you want a car to handle corners right, it needs to be negative camber.

eta: Yeah a wheel weight in the front of the chassis used to help as well.

 

[hamtaro]

Dt-04 all the way.  Hornet evo to me seems like a bodge which people are modifying to make the front/rear track look better and work better.  Why would you want to fix a supposed fix?

[ThunderDragonCy]

4 hours ago, hamtaro said:

Why would you want to fix a supposed fix?

Because I do get a kick out of doing that. I like making stuff better. But I do see your point.

[Pablo68]

On 2/13/2025 at 11:34 AM, hamtaro said:

Dt-04 all the way.  Hornet evo to me seems like a bodge which people are modifying to make the front/rear track look better and work better.  Why would you want to fix a supposed fix?

Hamtaro? Really? My niece had that anime, she loved it.

[SlideWRX]

The gearbox and rear suspension can be made identical.  The front steering are very similar, although the DT-04 should have better suspension travel, can be flipped for length, and uses hex wheel attachment.  There are already 3d printed shock tops to put on the front of the Hornet to use longer shocks to help with travel.  With the new DT-04 parts, you could easily switch the Hornet EVO to hex if you wanted to.  Beyond swapping springs and tweaking shocks, not much to do on either for major handling changes.  They are.. boring for those that fix Tamiya oddness.  

They are similar but different, and both.. don't need fixing.  Not the major 'I'm gonna re-design this' type of fixing anyway.  Neither will win championships outside of make or spec racing.

In terms of bodies to use, the Hornet probably adapts to a lot of the GH & GHII chassis bodies and the DT-04 seems to adapt to many of the DT-02 bodies. So they aren't for fixing maybe, but they are for customizing I think.

If you want to try a different gearbox, go for mid mount or something, I would say go for the DT-04.

Personally I think I will go Hornet EVO.  If that had been out there when I went back down this rabbit hole 4 years ago, that is where I would have started - I wanted a Hornet for nostalgia, but something that handled better.