Looking for a buggy to house my 6000kv (5.5T) brushless motor

[LMF5000 20]

Hi everyone, this is my first post on TamiyaClub! Just getting back into the hobby after a decade-long break 😁. I started in the late 90s building a TA-01 (Opel Calibra) and then in the early 2000s I built a TT-01 (Raybrig NSX). Over time I put ball bearings in the NSX and added a 3s lipo, the aforementioned 6000kv motor, metal driveshaft and aftermarket dampers. It was a pretty crazy amount of power (max speed clocked at over 80km/h) but surprisingly the drivetrain held up well, except for chewing through aluminium motor pinions.

This year I dusted off the NSX and took it for a drive, and it rekindled my interest in the hobby... but I always wanted to branch out into off-roading, so after much research I bought a CC-02 (Defender 90). I wanted to make it a compromise that can do both crawling and fast driving, so I fitted a hobbywing quikrun fusion SE (1800kv with speed controller built into the motor) and the largest pinion that fit, and on 3s it has a great combination of low-speed control (thanks to the FOC and "rpm hold" function of the motor) with a reasonably high top speed... Thing is, after taking weeks to painstakingly finish the scale body, I find myself a little reluctant to go bashing the Defender on the rocks 😬.

So here I am looking for a relatively inexpensive buggy to "bash" that can handle the 6000kv motor currently housed in the NSX. I won't be doing any jumps or races, just driving fast on tarmac, rock, sand and maybe grass. Something where I wouldn't be too concerned to drive through a puddle or skid into a rock with. 

I've looked at the cheapest options using a TT-02B (eg Plasma Edge II), but the layout is very similar to the TT-01 so I wouldn't really be getting the fun of building something completely new to me - it would basically be a repeat of the NSX. I've also looked at the high-end TD4 (Super Avante) but it's quite costly, very crowded for reason unclear to me, and I really don't like having to remove a clip and two screws every time I want to remove the battery.

This led me to the chassis that's currently top of my list: the DF-03 (Dark Impact). I like that it has a bottom-loading battery box (very convenient and good at protecting my 3s lipo). My question is, is there something better that I'm missing? Do I need the slipper clutch option if I opt for this? Should I consider any 2wd buggies (I've only ever driven 4wd Tamiya models). Any thoughts are welcome!

[Elbowloh 1483]

With the DF03 (for that power) I think the following would be advisable

1) do the rear diff mid e.g.buy a second set of the front diff out-drives (which are metal) to replace the ones  in the rear diff (which are mostly plastic).

2) replace the alloy idler gear and resolve with a steel one, this is quite a tricky fix (search for forum for guidance).

3) replace the steel diff balls for tungsten carbide or ceramic.

 

If your just looking for something to mess around with, I think the TT02b would probably suit actually, with bearings, an alloy motor mount, some cva dampers and the alloy prop shaft. Others will have better idea I want other groups would be needed.

 

[Andreas W 2983]

I have not held my hands on one yet,  but a Kyosho Lazer Dirt Cross must be a good combination of capable and low price. Even here in high cost Norway they are cheap for what they are. 

[TurnipJF 10804]

I have a couple of ideas that might help:

Firstly, I know exactly how you feel about not wanting to get your Defender body scratched up. I have one of those myself, and feel the same way about it.

 

The answer was to get it a second bodyshell, a cheap and expendable one that didn't take much effort to finish, and use that for running, keeping the original Tamiya one for shelf display. 

I got the shell from Kamtec here:

https://www.kamtec.co.uk/p/1-10-land-rover-xc-body-abs

They also have it on their eBay store:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310178997053

 

Secondly, while that is true that the TT-01 and TT-02B are similar in layout (as are many other shaft drive 4WD models), they are still different enough in both build and driving behaviour to make it with having both in your fleet. They don't share any significant stock parts or hop-ups, and behave very differently on the track. 

 

Thirdly, anything driven off-road at the speeds possible with a 5.5t motor on 3s will likely suffer accelerated wear and be at a greater risk of damage, even if you don't crash it, simply due to hitting the terrain itself as it drives over/through it. Might I suggest that your motor finds an on-road home? Maybe in one of these?

I run a 4.5t in mine, and it is awesome! Obviously it doesn't need all that power, but it can handle it without issue if you tighten the diff properly - I left mine too loose on the first run and faceted the balls. You can read more about my adventures with the chassis here:

Or if you really want to go off-road but don't like the TD4, you may consider the TD2 instead? Same basic design with in-board front shocks, same high quality plastics, etc, but 2WD with a conventional battery layout, and a little cheaper too.

 

Personally I'd hesitate to put that much power in a DF-03. Even if you swap out the vulnerable plastic diff outdrives and soft alloy idler gear as previously mentioned, you still have a chassis made of plain plastic with no fibre reinforced option, with a very narrow, somewhat flimsy front end prone to breaking just aft of the front bulkhead. In contrast, the TT-02B has a fibre reinforced "hard" chassis tub as an option, and the TD4 comes with one as standard. And if you think the TD4 is crowded in terms of space for electronics, the DF-03 is even more so. 

[Wooders28 5048]

As above, the DF03 needs parts to handle modern power, but once you've done those, they're pretty bulletproof!! 

I ran a Castle 5700kv on 3s for years with those gearbox mods, and it was fine.

Did a vid for the rear diff mod (as it was the most asked question on a DF03 FB I'm on) 

 

At that kind of power level, the gear on the slipper main shaft wears (one of tamiyas finest cheese pinion material), I used a hardened steel Helicopter pinion as replacement , a company was making the gear (link in the thread), but looks like they're put of stock atm (shoot them a message though).

You could always just check the wear every so often, and replace the shaft as and when.

 

 That castle 5700kv motor ran 5s lipo in that car (well, 2s on top..), and still the gearbox was fine.

But of extra mods.

I've kind of retured the car now, and gone tall on the gearing (DF03ra gearing,  the on-road version of the chassis), with a 7700kv on 3s , just for speedrun fun. With the motor being out of its comfort zone, it's getting toasty, so fitted a motor cooling fan - 

 

I'd probably go for the yeah racing spring steel drive shafts down the line, again at that power level, things wear 

 

Also, to run 3s, you need to cut away some of the chassis, for the battery cable. This means you need to remove one of the front body posts.

 

 I've done away with all the body posts completely (rear one is in the way for the cooling fan anyway ) and just gone with velcro around the chassis & body, works for pretty much every modern off road racer, so only the antenna hole is in the body, make it look a but cleaner imo..

 

[LMF5000 20]

Wow! Thank you all for the replies so far. I'm blown away by the quality of the responses - you really know your stuff 😁.

Lots of good points to think about. I think overall you've convinced me not to get the DF-03 lol. 

In terms of alternatives, I'm not all that keen on any chassis with a transverse battery (like the kyosho or many vintage Tamiya buggies) since I'm running a soft lipo battery and I don't want it being treated like a cantilever and loaded with bending forces - plus many transverse battery models have a rounded opening designed for cylindrical NiMH/NiCd batteries, which my rectangular lipo won't slot into, and even if I file the corners, since the ends of the battery stick out the sides it's at risk of being damaged by rocks.

I like the idea of a cheap body for my CC-02. That would be the most sensible option but then that would mean no justification for a buggy 😅. Is there a trick for finding compatible bodies (dimension-wise)? I'm buying everything from tamico.de.

I've never had a 2wd buggy and I'm concerned the driving dynamics won't be as good as 4wd - how do they handle in your experience?

I can see why TT-02B looks tempting. It has the most efficient geartrain of any of them (fewest number of gearwheels - no idler gears at all), bevel gear diffs (that don't melt like ball diffs), and the most exposed motor, which is ideal for fitting a heatsink. But being a bathtub-style derived from a touring car chassis it's a bit thick in the front so the buggies end up with an odd wider shape because of it. And by the time you add turnbuckles etc to at least equal the camber and toe angle adjustments possible with the DF03, plus ball bearings and metal shafts, the total cost will be more than just buying the DF03 to begin with.

I have no objection to the TD4 if it's the best chassis for my needs. Price-wise currently the TT-02B starts at around €90, then add €20 for ball bearings. The DF-03 is €170 and add €45 for the slipper clutch. The TD4 is at €245, so not that much more. In fact it's kind of tempting to get one of Tamiya's latest buggy chassis that's meant to be "high end".

What's the general consensus on the TD4 - in terms of strength, weak points, suitability for this power level, mandatory upgrades, etc? Pardon the inexperience but are inboard front dampers considered an advantage in buggies?

P.S. Here's my defender by the way. It was meant to be gunmetal grey but the paint came out black (it's not tamiya paint as this is the only brand the local supplier had in stock). Amazing how neat it looks with no standalone ESC!

[Kowalski86 4751]

2 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

Thirdly, anything driven off-road at the speeds possible with a 5.5t motor on 3s will likely suffer accelerated wear and be at a greater risk of damage, even if you don't crash it, simply due to hitting the terrain itself as it drives over/through it.

This is a good point, I've ran my share of RCs in gravel and even at my "tame" 20-30mph speeds, a arms, screws, and shock eyelets would get scuffed up. Somehow my Traxxas Rally (aka 4x4 Slash) was one of my least favorite gravel runners simply from how quickly everything would get chewed up from being brushless/4wd, and low to the ground.

Something that I'd like to note is that most buggies do not like grass, you'd be looking at 4wd and low grass only. But they can be made into fun on-road runners.

[TurnipJF 10804]

3 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

Something that I'd like to note is that most buggies do not like grass, you'd be looking at 4wd and low grass only. But they can be made into fun on-road runners.

Very true. Most modern buggies are optimised for modern tracks which are usually surfaced with Astroturf or similar. They do indeed make for excellent on-road runners though. Some of my best RBP results were recorded with my TT-02B buggy on tarmac.

For running off-road at speed without getting too scratched up, something big, wide and high off the ground generally works better than a buggy. This is my fastest off-roader:

It is a DT-03T Aqroshot with Mad Bull wheels and tyres which give it enough ground clearance to avoid the underside getting all scratched up, and enough width not to roll over when cornering at speed despite the aforementioned ground clearance.

Other off-roaders that also run well at speed without getting too scratched up include this, my Blitzer Blackfoot (Blitzer Beetle chassis, Blackfoot body, also on Mad Bull rubber):

 

And this, my WR-01 Twin Detonator:

The WT-01 runs even better at speed due to having more of a front kick-up & thus more caster.

Would you be at all interested in going down the truck route? If not, you could perhaps consider putting big wheels/tyres on a buggy for more width and ground clearance?

 

[TurnipJF 10804]

1 hour ago, LMF5000 said:

P.S. Here's my defender by the way. It was meant to be gunmetal grey but the paint came out black (it's not tamiya paint as this is the only brand the local supplier had in stock). Amazing how neat it looks with no standalone ESC!

It does indeed look very neat. I have often pondered combining such a motor/ESC with one of those Spektrum servos with an integrated receiver for the ultimate in minimalist electronics installations.

[LMF5000 20]

12 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

It does indeed look very neat. I have often pondered combining such a motor/ESC with one of those Spektrum servos with an integrated receiver for the ultimate in minimalist electronics installations.

Coincidentally I just ordered some 6-channel receivers from AliExpress that integrate a gyro and a lighting controller. And they're only half the size of the traditional receivers from when I started (the analog ones with a crystal that fit comfortably on top of the steering servo). Amazing how far electronics have come!

So, what does everyone think of the TD4 on 5.5T 3s brushless power? I did some research and seems it already comes with a steel motor pinion out of the box which is encouraging. Unfortunately with the plastic fenders it looks like it would be impossible to fit monster truck wheels to increase the ground clearance like suggested here.

[TurnipJF 10804]

16 minutes ago, LMF5000 said:

Coincidentally I just ordered some 6-channel receivers from AliExpress that integrate a gyro and a lighting controller. And they're only half the size of the traditional receivers from when I started (the analog ones with a crystal that fit comfortably on top of the steering servo). Amazing how far electronics have come!

So, what does everyone think of the TD4 on 5.5T 3s brushless power? I did some research and seems it already comes with a steel motor pinion out of the box which is encouraging. Unfortunately with the plastic fenders it looks like it would be impossible to fit monster truck wheels to increase the ground clearance like suggested here.

The fenders and their mounting brackets can be omitted if you wish. They are purely decorative, not contributing to the structure or function of the suspension.

With a motor like that, I would recommend replacing the plastic bevel gears with metal ones, and to fit a slipper if you are planning on jumping it. Other than that, the drivetrain is pretty bomb-proof in stock form.

If you are planning to use it on tight tracks, you might want to omit the steering limiters and fit universals up front instead of dog bones, but if you are not needing a particularly tight turning radius, the dog bones work just fine if the steering limiters are fitted as per the manual.

[LMF5000 20]

Thanks, makes sense. I've been running this motor in my TT-01 with completely stock plastic gears and plastic shafts for 10 years. I don't intend to jump or race the buggy, just bash it on tarmac or sandy beaches or unprepared gravel lots, so I surmise that leaving it stock should work then. Thanks for the info on the fenders, I think I will look into some bigger wheels then

[Wooders28 5048]

5 hours ago, LMF5000 said:

what does everyone think of the TD4 on 5.5T 3s brushless power?

The kit price seemed cheap enough, but it also needs a slipper , and diff mods (?) to make it capable?

It also requires a low profile servo (and I've got a few decent full size servos sat on the shelf...🤦‍♂️)

The df03 is old enough (2006?) that there's loads of info out there, but parts are started to dry up, the TD4 could be the daddy, but still a bit new for all the mod avenues to be explored (I'm sure a shorty lipo will fit etc), so you could be the person to take the lead 😁💪

[LMF5000 20]

Servo isn't an issue since I will be buying it specifically for this kit. I'm looking at the Absima LP15DBF because of the cool factor of being a brushless servo (and it's only €20 more than what a plain servo costs in my country). Lipo on the other hand, I just bought one 4000mAh 3s lipo brand new for the CC-02 (I chose one that exactly fits the dimensions of traditional 6-cell NiMH/NiCd batteries) so I was planning to use that or fall back to my old 3600mAh NiMH packs.

And after watching a review of the TD4 I need to ponder it some more 🤦‍♂️. Apparently it might be a struggle to fit aftermarket brushless motors like my old ezrun because tamiya brushless motors have wires that emerge from the back, but other brands like mine have wires emerging from a tab on the side.

This originally started as a cheap & cheerful buggy to use for bashing. Maybe TT-02B is the answer after all? 🤔

[TurnipJF 10804]

The TT-02B is nothing if not cheap and cheerful!

It is also pretty resilient in stock form, and has plenty of reinforced optional parts that you can use if anything breaks.

A wide range of gearing options will allow you to set it up for either standard or big wheel running without overheating your motor.

A GF-01 wheel/tyre set bolts right on, but you may find that you don't even need to go that big. I use FTX Vantage wheels and tyres on mine that are only a little larger than stock, and even this small increase in ground clearance makes quite a difference to its rough ground capabilities. 

If you aren't planning on jumping it, then it's touring car origins won't be a problem. If anything they help it perform better on the flat.

There isn't a great deal of suspension geometry adjustment available in stock form - it lacks the turnbuckles of the DT-03 and TD4 - but if you aren't racing it, this isn't really an issue, and they can be added easily of you find yourself wanting them further down the line.

I know I thoroughly enjoy running mine, and I suspect that you might also get a lot of enjoyment from one. 

[Howards 821]

22 hours ago, LMF5000 said:

So, what does everyone think of the TD4 on 5.5T 3s brushless power?

I run mine with a 4.5t and win stuff, so... 

Fit the slipper clutch and alloy diff nut, maybe mod the rear uprights depending on what you are doing with it. The rest of it is tough as old boots.

[LMF5000 20]

Just now, Howards said:

I run mine with a 4.5t and win stuff, so... 

Fit the slipper clutch and alloy diff nut, maybe mod the rear uprights depending on what you are doing with it. The rest of it is tough as old boots.

Do you have the part numbers please? I could only find a slipper for DF-03 and haven't looked for diff nuts.

[chris.alex 1773]

For a 5.5t I would recommend first the TT02B. I am running it at the moment with a 7.5t, 68t spur and 26t pinion. Before, I had a 6.5t installed, but it was too fast for me. However, I fitted the slightly modified DF02 diffs, because I didn't trust the kit plastic diffs. 

Secondly, I recommend the DT02. No modifications in the drive train needed. I once drove it with a 5.5t motor and it was great fun. Attention, because of the rear-wheel drive the braking distance is longer. 🙂

[TurnipJF 10804]

2 hours ago, LMF5000 said:

Do you have the part numbers please? I could only find a slipper for DF-03 and haven't looked for diff nuts.

Some things you may consider for a high power TD4 build:

22031 - slipper set

22029 - diff nut set

22059 - metal bevel gears

22028 - front universals

[LMF5000 20]

Thank you all for your insightful help and patience so far. Things have taken an interesting turn. I handed my wife the tamico website to get an outside opinion, and she was impressed they had models of the VW beetle 😅. Apparently she was a big fan of Herbie.

So, if I do this right I might manage to get her started on the hobby! (Ignore that 6000kv us nuts for a beginner, the transmitter has an expo knob so I can dial the throttle channel down to like 10% power to make it as slow as needed).

It seems that tamiya has these beetle models:

Rwd On-road, M-06 (58752)

4wd Rally, MF-01X (58650)

Rwd Blitzer Beetle (58502)

Rwd Monster beetle (58618)

4wd trail, GF-01TR (58672)

 

What do we think about these?

I think we can eliminate the on-road from the outset, and the rally one doesn't have great reviews. I like the monster beetle, in fact one of my concerns with the buggies was that they don't have a lot of ground clearance for driving on rocky beaches - so a monster truck style chassis might actually make sense. I have my reservations about it being rwd not 4wd though. And how easy would it be to paint the red ABS body white to make it look like Herbie?

Last idea is the Squash Van (GF-02, 58725) which is a 4wd monster truck and cheap as well. Only problem is the body 😬.

[TurnipJF 10804]

On 2/15/2025 at 11:35 PM, LMF5000 said:

I have my reservations about it being rwd not 4wd though. And how easy would it be to paint the red ABS body white to make it look like Herbie?

Despite being only 2WD, the Monster Beetle is quite a capable off-roader. One placed second in last year's Splendid Teapot Hillclimb, beaten only by a tracked vehicle. It is more capable on the rough than any standard buggy, 2WD or 4WD.

If you keep the power low it has no significant issues, but with strong motors the diff pushes the sides of the gearbox outwards and skips teeth. Probably the best solution is this, the MIP ball diff:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/mip-super-ball-diff-for-re-released-tamiya-blackfoot-monster-beetle-417443

I have one in mine and it is bomb-proof, but there are also aftermarket brackets and braces to stop the gearbox sides flexing if you'd rather retain the stock gear diff. 

As for painting the body white, just use a light grey plastic primer and you can do so without issue. However being a hard body painted on the outside, the plastic colour will show through any scratches. Might I suggest painting it up for display, but using a cheap expendable polycarbonate shell for running? They are lighter, stronger, and easier to paint. You can also decorate it as a wide-eye Baja, which looks more Herbie-ish than the stock narrow-eye Baja shell. 

I took this approach with mine. 

Stock hard body for display:

 

Aftermarket polycarbonate body from Kamtec for running purposes:

 

[LMF5000 20]

Thanks for the detailed post! Lots of good info in there - nice monster beetle! I've been reading about ball diffs "melting" under high power. My 20-year old TA-02 has a rear ball diff that has held up just fine using the stock shiny can motor - but all the stories of melted diffs on DF-03 got me thinking that bevel gear diffs might be more robust for the job. Mechanically speaking, a bevel gear diff can't slip and generate heat and wear in the same way a slipping ball diff can.

I see that the monster beetle has metal-reinforced gearbox sides, is that a new addition to the 2015 re-release? Curios how it could skip teeth and what kind of bracing can be applied to stop it (I have access to a 3D printer).

---

As an aside, what do we think about the trail beetle? In the videos it looks painfully slow and a bit too short to avoid wheelies, but I'm thinking the 6000kv motor might give it a decent top speed for tarmac.

Otherwise I can just focus on getting the best monster truck chassis for the job (independent of the body) and an aftermarket beetle-shaped body shell.

I took my CC-02 for its first drive this weekend and was very satisfied by its performance. Unfortunately it's very easy to roll over if I take fast corners on tarmac, but it accompanied us on a 3km trek through garrigue terrain (deeply pitted hard rock surface with sparse vegetation) and was able to keep up with me the whole time, though I did add many gouges to the axle diff covers and center gearbox from loose rocks. It even climbed pavements and navigated all pedestrian infrastructure easily, and drove through a sandy beach without getting stuck. Based on the experience I want something more stable in fast corners while simultaneously with higher ground clearance to handle the rocks undamaged.

[CMshooter 149]

Honestly, I don't think any Tamiya kit is going to like that much motor.  Been playing with these for 30 something years and it is best not to try and go too far outside the design parameters.  I have destroyed my share of them.

[TurnipJF 10804]

6 hours ago, LMF5000 said:

I see that the monster beetle has metal-reinforced gearbox sides, is that a new addition to the 2015 re-release? Curios how it could skip teeth and what kind of bracing can be applied to stop it (I have access to a 3D printer).

Those metal gearbox sides are part of the problem. They are only thin and flexible stamped aluminium, and with the open diff design of the ORV chassis, it is up to these plates and them alone to keep the diff together - a task that they struggle with if you fit a hotter motor.

Here is an example of the sort of braces people use to stiffen them up:

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1821025768/tamiya-monster-beetle-gearbox

Here is another:

https://www.printables.com/model/445917-tamiya-orv-blackfoot-gearbox-brace

You can also swap them out for stiff carbon fibre versions:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006179354586.html

 

6 hours ago, LMF5000 said:

melted diffs on DF-03

Those are typically because people are using the stock plastic diff outdrives at the rear. A recommended mod is to get a second set of metal outdrives as used on the front, and install these at the rear.

Even with metal outdrives, a hot motor can kill a ball diff almost instantly, not by melting it, but by faceting the balls and putting grooves in the plates. This happens if the diff is set too loose for the power that is being put through it. However with the diff tightened appropriately, they can handle a lot of power without self-destructing. I killed the diff on my 4.5t powered Group C within seconds by having it set too loose, but now that I am running it sufficiently tight, it is showing no wear despite being used for the Endurance Racing By Post series which is run on short, tight tracks with a lot of braking and acceleration.

 

6 hours ago, LMF5000 said:

Based on the experience I want something more stable in fast corners while simultaneously with higher ground clearance to handle the rocks undamaged.

The Monster Beetle is pretty tall, but not the widest of models, and can be a bit tippy when cornering at speed. You may therefore want to consider the Blitzer Beetle instead. It is lower than the Monster Beetle, but you can address this with bigger tyres, and it is wider, with a lower centre of gravity. It also has a beefy gearbox with no side flex issues.

 

[Kowalski86 4751]

On 2/15/2025 at 5:35 PM, LMF5000 said:

It seems that tamiya has these beetle models:

Rwd On-road, M-06 (58752)

4wd Rally, MF-01X (58650)

Rwd Blitzer Beetle (58502)

Rwd Monster beetle (58618)

4wd trail, GF-01TR (58672)

What do we think about these?

Last idea is the Squash Van (GF-02, 58725) which is a 4wd monster truck and cheap as well. Only problem is the body 😬.

Between those models I'd go with a Blitzer Beetle and pick up some more asphalt-friendly tires if you plan on running it on-road. It's basically a stadium truck with a beetle shell, so it should be pretty stable. It won't off road as well as a Monster Beetle if you plan on going through grass.

If the Squash Vans wheelbase is anywhere close to 251mm, there are plenty of baja bug shells that will fit if you go with one of those.