Define "Toy-Grade"

[Kowalski86]

It's common for us to throw around the term "toy grade", sometimes to knock lower end Tamiyas, other times while discussing cheap Chineseum RCs. I'm curious to know what makes an RC "hobby-grade" or "toy-grade" to everyone here.

For me, it largely comes down to replacment parts and electronics. As bare bones as it is, I can run all kinds of electronics in a Grasshopper and get replacement parts any day of the week. It has a 251mm wheelbase, so there's a nice selection of aftermarket bodies. I could make it into a baja bug, a hot rod, or a crude "Mad Bull" abomination.

On the other hand, while I've enjoyed my WPL Jimny I would need to buy another one if I wanted a new body for it, and it's very limited in terms of what you can do for electronics. Thus why I call them and MN (and whatever else) "good toys", but very limited in customisation.

A lot of today's "mini" scales borderline on toy-grade to me, simply due to them not accepting normal sized electronics, wheels, or bodyshells. It significantly limits personalization and impedes the aftermarket potential. I've seen a handful of Mini Maxxes with hop-up X or Y, but I've yet to see any with a different shell than what they come with out of the box.

 

[TurnipJF]

I think that if you can repair and upgrade it when it breaks, it is hobby grade.

If you have to buy a new one when it breaks, then it is toy grade.

If you'd like to buy a new one but can't afford it, then it is race grade. 😁

[mtbkym01]

Agree, if it’s fixable, with replaceable electronic components = Hobby grade

If it has a circuit board based electronic system = Toy grade

This is my view anyway

[Kowalski86]

3 minutes ago, mtbkym01 said:

Agree, if it’s fixable, with replaceable electronic components = Hobby grade

If it has a circuit board based electronic system = Toy grade

Good point on the circuit board systems, that should be a clear giveaway right there.

[Saito2]

1 hour ago, Kowalski86 said:

For me, it largely comes down to replacment parts and electronics.

I pretty much agree with this nowadays.

The waters have become muddied through time. In olden times, it was easy. Was it a kit or was it found in hobby shops? Then it was hobby-grade.

Was it RTR and commonly found in toy stores? Then it was toy-grade.

Its not to say there weren't exceptions, even then. One of the positives about the Nikko cars I started with was they offered replacement parts. Nikko also fielded cars that could be consider hobby-grade or even race-grade. Tyco didn't do that. In some respects, the circuit board electronics in a Nikko Rhino for example, offered better control over the MSCs in hobby grade kits.

Then along comes Traxxas with their Cat, the RTR hobby-grade car as it was touted. Its been downhill ever since, lol. j/k.

I found it of interest to learn that snobbish "racers" at the track considered Tamiyas to be "toys". Whatever. To the general public, they all seem like toy cars and you know what? Who cares? Have fun. Life's short.

 

[Kowalski86]

36 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

I found it of interest to learn that snobbish "racers" at the track considered Tamiyas to be "toys". Whatever. To the general public, they all seem like toy cars and you know what? Who cares? Have fun. Life's short.

To those "snobbish racers", I'd gladly ask why racing is going the way of dinosaurs, while Tamiyas own events in Japan draw nicely sized crowds. Not everyone needs a $1000 Tekno to have fun.

[Rijkvv]

5 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

I think that if you can repair and upgrade it when it breaks, it is hobby grade.

If you have to buy a new one when it breaks, then it is toy grade.

If you'd like to buy a new one but can't afford it, then it is race grade. 😁

Well then, to me all those 1:14 trucks are race grade! I do remember someone entered one of those in RBP. Having just paid an expensive roof repair, the Grasshopper is currently also race grade for me.  

I didn't know about Nikko having better stuff, I also never visit that part of the forum. I assume that's in the past though?

Having fun is indeed the important part! 

[ABigChungus]

Plastic wheels, hard plastic tyres, usually a licensed character like Mickey Mouse on, little to no suspension...erm whatever you call the steering where it is literally all the way left and right 😅 no in between steering basically! And it's either full throttle or nothing. 

Tamiya is hobby grade, but more accessible and begginer friendly in the hobby grade area. They might seem toy grade compared to other racing brands, but come on, they aren't toy grade at all.

[Nikko85]

2 hours ago, Rijkvv said:

 

I didn't know about Nikko having better stuff, I also never visit that part of the forum. I assume that's in the past though?

 

Well in the past!

They tried to compete in racing with the Dandy Dash, but also made a few chassis that were hobby grade in every way apart from a PCB. Bearings, spares, 7.2 NiMH 540 motor etc. These were the Hawg monster trucks and Dictator 4x4 and the F10 models.

That being said the PCB was full proportional so offered better control than the mechanical speed controls, so it was likely an upgrade, just not as fixable.

They also did some rather nice 1/14 and 1/10 on road or rally cars with upgradeable motors etc. I dont know if they take bearings etc. but I may buy one to find.

They certainly blurred the line, if there even is one. Some of the more toy cars they made were very nice too in the golden era of RC cars.

All this is well in the past sadly. They now just make new bright grade rubbish really.

 

 

[Andreas W]

2 hours ago, Nikko85 said:

Well in the past!

They tried to compete in racing with the Dandy Dash, but also made a few chassis that were hobby grade in every way apart from a PCB. Bearings, spares, 7.2 NiMH 540 motor etc. These were the Hawg monster trucks and Dictator 4x4 and the F10 models.

That being said the PCB was full proportional so offered better control than the mechanical speed controls, so it was likely an upgrade, just not as fixable.

 

 

I agree on that. My Dictator had a throtle control so smooth that none of my mates had with their hobby grade kits with MSC. As long as everyone was running stock silvercan and 7,2 Nicad it also was no slouch either, until one of my mates put an M&Y mod motor into his Marui Samurai - until a brush brokenor the chain went off and jammed. 

 

On topic: I often talk about my Grasshornet as toy grade,  but that is with a wink in the eye. Of course it's hobby grade after all. 

 

I see it so: RTR from toy shops and non existent parts support: Toy grade. 

Kits with parts support: Hobby grade. 

[urban warrior]

Not to forget the QuickDrive line from Tamiya, which seemed for me to be something in between. You may get some spares but not all. You got proportional steering and throttle, but nothing crazy or changeable electronics. I believe Tamiya clearly aimed at the toy grade market here.

[Hypoxic]

12 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

…in a Grasshopper and get replacement parts any day of the week. It has a 251mm wheelbase, so there's a nice selection of aftermarket bodies. I could make it into a baja bug, a hot rod, or a crude "Mad Bull" abomination..

 

Now I want a Grasshopper. 

[urban warrior]

7 minutes ago, Hypoxic said:

Now I want a Grasshopper. 

The Grasshopper (in spite of its crude and rudimentary chassis) has so much character. How not to love it? I remember my first Grasshopper in the late eighties, which I equipped with the wheels of my Midnight Pumpkin, having somekind of a Mad Bull, Long before Tamiya itself released it. 😄

[Nikko85]

47 minutes ago, urban warrior said:

Not to forget the QuickDrive line from Tamiya, which seemed for me to be something in between. You may get some spares but not all. You got proportional steering and throttle, but nothing crazy or changeable electronics. I believe Tamiya clearly aimed at the toy grade market here.

Good shout.

The QD buggies are essentially 1/14 scale grasshoppers. The 2nd generation could also take bearings, upgradeable motors etc. Again only real difference is that PCB.

Really enjoy my QDs, and the monster trucks are arguably as 'good' handling as the CW01 (which doesn't say much)..

[Kowalski86]

2 hours ago, Andreas W said:

I see it so: RTR from toy shops and non existent parts support: Toy grade. 

Kits with parts support: Hobby grade. 

It's really the third area that I'm hung up on right now, the "Random Chinese brand".

A small number of their models can be purchased as kits with limited parts support, and others have none at all. Most of them are weird "off scales" that don't play nice with standard electronics, wheels, or bodies.

[Andreas W]

33 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

It's really the third area that I'm hung up on right now, the "Random Chinese brand".

A small number of their models can be purchased as kits with limited parts support, and others have none at all. Most of them are weird "off scales" that don't play nice with standard electronics, wheels, or bodies.

Aha. I see. That's sier of a problem all over,  regardless of tools, home electronics or other things. Short lived companies delivering more or less questionable stuff, but the marketing is flooded with it. We call it Kina-dritt (which probably passes the family filter,  but the english phrasing not).

 

I try to avoid such stuff. That's why I have Tamiya and Kyosho. 

 

(Hmm. But I also have a Carten, which is chinese,  but has been around for a while. This is not so simple after all).

[Rinskie]

I have been thinking about this since I read it yesterday. I started to rely but then I considered I didn't really know how to pin it down. I mean I have an idea of what a toy is but then I have seen some remarkable things done with mere toys then it dawned on me..............THEY ARE ALL TOYS. 

[urban warrior]

55 minutes ago, Rinskie said:

............THEY ARE ALL TOYS. 

Now I'm completely irritated. Tamiya ist stating in all of the Radio Control Handbooks I used to know: "TOYS THEY'RE NOT." 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Big Jon]

If it uses industry standard electronics, I consider it hobby grade. If it uses weird proprietary electronics, it’s toy grade. 

The minis and micros blur those lines. Mini Z (and old Tamtech) are most certainly hobby grade, for example, while an awful lot of the mini and micros, as cool and well detailed as they are, are toy grade.

[Kowalski86]

56 minutes ago, Big Jon said:

If it uses industry standard electronics, I consider it hobby grade. If it uses weird proprietary electronics, it’s toy grade. 

This is about how I feel. What started me thinking on the "toy-grade" debate was when I started to mess with WPL stuff again. You can repair them and some of them are even sold as kits, but they use a weird servo size and the stock ESCs are cheesy circuit board setups.

[moffman]

16 hours ago, mtbkym01 said:

Agree, if it’s fixable, with replaceable electronic components = Hobby grade

If it has a circuit board based electronic system = Toy grade

This is my view anyway

That’s how I’ve always judged toy grade rc if everything that makes it work is on a flat circuit board and the motor is buried in a case with the gears that make it move!

[Kpowell911]

Circuit board vs removable electronics for me is the distinction 

[Wooders28]

On 2/15/2025 at 2:11 AM, Saito2 said:

I found it of interest to learn that snobbish "racers" at the track considered Tamiyas to be "toys".

I've yet to meet a racer, who's hasn't in the past, or doesn't currently own,  a tamiya!! 

[Saito2]

Just now, Wooders28 said:

I've yet to meet a racer, who's hasn't in the past, or doesn't currently own,  a tamiya!! 

Which I always found ironic. Few racers were "born" with an RC10 in their hands.

[Blista]

If a Tamiya was a toy, you'd say it was flawed.

Tamiyas aren't toys because those aren't flaws, they're quirks.  It's a feature.