Brushless bashing buggy recommendations

[LMF5000]

This is a follow-up from my previous thread. I've decided to leave my 6000kv motor in the TT-01 onroad car, and get a more reasonable 3000-4000kv combo such as this one for the buggy. I will be using a 3s lipo that's the same size as a 6-cell NiMH, but square not rounded in the corners. The wire emerges from the corner, not the center like an Ni-MH, so accomodating this will be a consideration too.

So far my Tamiya collection includes a TA-02, TT-01 and CC-02. I'm going to be buying a monster beetle for my wife (her first R/C model) and leaving it brushed to make it more manageable - perhaps upgrading to an old 21T motor I have already.

I'm now pondering what new buggy to get for myself. It will not be raced or jumped, just driven on tarmac, sand, rock, short grass and maybe some puddles. I've considered the following:

• TT-02B - I like that it's so cheap (guilt-free bashing). Plasma Edge II would be my favourite. I don't like the tub shape of the chassis (makes the bodies look wide) and the similarity with the TT-01 makes is less novel/exciting than the other options. Plastic everything is an advantage in rust-resistance (less concern on cleanup). Cost with ball bearings €110.
• DF-03 dark impact - some concerns on durability were raised in the other thread (the idler gear, the non-reinforced plastic, narrow front snapping off etc). My favourite thing about this is the less-spiky tyres it comes with by default (good for tarmac). Also a bit concerned about the ball diffs on brushless power. Cost €170 (includes the bearings already)
• VQS - most interesting option because it has a center ball diff (never had a car with a center diff). Also the planetary gear diffs will be a first for me. I also like that the body is pre-painted (saves buying a can of paint, and hours of cutting & masking which isn't my favourite part of the build). Not a fan of the spiky tyres, not sure how they will hold up on tarmac. Also needs hard-to-find ball bearing sizes to convert to fully ball bearings. Lastly a bit concerned on brushless durability because I see they use a somewhat convoluted path with a lot of gears to transmit the power. Cost €200 (excluding bearings).
• TD4 - most expensive and capable option. I like the look, the inboard dampers, and the hex screws instead of philips screws. Not looking forward to painting a 2-tone body (I might just make it all yellow). Not a fan of the need to unscrew 2 screws and 2 clips to get to the battery (since it will be shared with my CC-02). A bit put off by the price (considering it's not all that different than the DF-03 in the sens that both include two ball diffs and upper turnbuckles for camber adjustments, and neither come with a slipper clutch nor a center diff), and also how absolutely packed all the electronics look compared to the TT-02B.

What do you think? Any buggies (even ones not on the list) that stand out as being the best for what I'm planning to do with it?

Also, would any of these justify a fancy €60 brushless steering servo? Or is a €25 waterproof metal-gear digital servo more than enough?

[TurnipJF]

Of those options, all but one are trying (with various levels of success) to be race buggies. Only the TT-02B is a basher through and through, with simplicity and ruggedness prioritised over adjustability and track prowess.

Cheap and easy spares availability is also a big plus for a basher. No matter how good a buggy is, it isn't any fun sitting broken on a shelf waiting for parts, and TT-02B parts won't keep you waiting long.

I get your point about it being the least exciting build of the bunch, but unless the car is destined to be a shelf queen, the initial build is but a small part of the enjoyment you'll be getting out of it, with plenty of  driving and modding time to make up for it. (And modding is very much on the cards with the TT-02B, as almost every part can be upgraded if you wish. You could pretty much build a whole car out of nothing but upgrades.)

As for other 4WD buggies to consider, the Manta Ray, Thunder Shot and their numerous siblings are also worthy of consideration IMO.

A digital metal geared servo would be plenty for any of them. 

[Kowalski86]

I vote TT02B, the stock parts are a blend of ABS and rubber so they're cheap and easy to fix. Just keep it stock, even the plastic driveshaft (which everyone and their dog throws out for some reason) will hold up under power.

[Wooders28]

3 hours ago, LMF5000 said:

DF-03 dark impact - some concerns on durability were raised in the other thread

Do the mods I've done and recommend in the previous thread, the drivetrain is quite bullet proof. Although, hit anything solid at the speed you'll likely to be going, things will break, whatever chassis you buy.

I would say, it's an old chassis (2006) , and parts are getting harder to get.

[LMF5000]

3 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

I vote TT02B, the stock parts are a blend of ABS and rubber so they're cheap and easy to fix. Just keep it stock, even the plastic driveshaft (which everyone and their dog throws out for some reason) will hold up under power.

That's exactly what I was thinking! Yesterday I priced a TT-02B with the recommended upgrades from the previous thread (metal center shaft, metal motor plate, ball bearings, steel pinions etc). By the end it was approaching the price of the dark impact. I think the more sensible approach is to start stock with only ball bearings (since they are a pain to change afterwards, and since they improve battery life, speed, and the life of the gears and parts), then see what breaks and upgrade only those things to metal. My TT-01 went 50mph (80km/h) with the 6000kv motor on 3s using the stock plastic driveshafts after all. I only upgraded it to a metal center propshaft because the plastic one would bend (buckle) and noisily slap the sides of the tub past a certain speed.

[LMF5000]

3 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

Of those options, all but one are trying (with various levels of success) to be race buggies. Only the TT-02B is a basher through and through, with simplicity and ruggedness prioritised over adjustability and track prowess.

Cheap and easy spares availability is also a big plus for a basher. No matter how good a buggy is, it isn't any fun sitting broken on a shelf waiting for parts, and TT-02B parts won't keep you waiting long.

I get your point about it being the least exciting build of the bunch, but unless the car is destined to be a shelf queen, the initial build is but a small part of the enjoyment you'll be getting out of it, with plenty of  driving and modding time to make up for it. (And modding is very much on the cards with the TT-02B, as almost every part can be upgraded if you wish. You could pretty much build a whole car out of nothing but upgrades.)

As for other 4WD buggies to consider, the Manta Ray, Thunder Shot and their numerous siblings are also worthy of consideration IMO.

A digital metal geared servo would be plenty for any of them. 

Those are some very wise words. Especially about the build being a small part overall (though I buy tamiya specifically for the build, else I'd be buying the more performance-focused brands hehe).

Why do you think manta ray and thunder shot are worth considering? I had discounted manta ray because it's basically the same innards as my TA02, and both of those seem to mount the battery transversely using a hole with rounded corners, so I don't think my lipo fits.

[LMF5000]

Thanks for the replies so far! TT-02B seems to be winning, with DF-03 runner up.

Is there a reason nobody's suggested the VQS? Any significant disadvantage?

[Twinfan]

3 minutes ago, LMF5000 said:

Is there a reason nobody's suggested the VQS? Any significant disadvantage?

Purchase cost and spares availability.....

Personally, I'd choose a TD4 and two diff nut Hop-Ups.  Job done.

[Kowalski86]

15 minutes ago, LMF5000 said:

That's exactly what I was thinking! Yesterday I priced a TT-02B with the recommended upgrades from the previous thread (metal center shaft, metal motor plate, ball bearings, steel pinions etc). 

 My TT-01 went 50mph (80km/h) with the 6000kv motor on 3s using the stock plastic driveshafts after all. I only upgraded it to a metal center propshaft because the plastic one would bend (buckle) and noisily slap the sides of the tub past a certain speed.

With the TT02B you get a steel pinion (17t iirc), you can run it with just that for a while and see how you like the performance.

The only upgrade that I really reccomend from day one is bearings (any brand will do), and a set of tires/wheels that work with your terrain.

The TT02 has a thicker, much more robust driveshaft vs the TT01. The aluminum one gives better throttle response but they bend in accidents and the "bling" quickly wears off if any dirt or rocks get into the chassis.

[TurnipJF]

7 minutes ago, LMF5000 said:

Why do you think manta ray and thunder shot are worth considering? I had discounted manta ray because it's basically the same innards as my TA02, and both of those seem to mount the battery transversely using a hole with rounded corners, so I don't think my lipo fits.

Ah yes. To be honest, I forgot about your rectangular battery when making those suggestions. Both can be modified to take rectangular batteries, but it involves filing the battery tray which is hard to do neatly. Maybe leave those until you get a rounded LiPo.

[TurnipJF]

29 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

the "bling" quickly wears off if any dirt or rocks get into the chassis.

That is true. A good reason to run silver-finish alloy parts. Minor scratches don't show and all but the most major ones can usually be polished out. That is why the externally visible alloy on my TT-02B is silver-finish.

 

[chris.alex]

For the requirements mentioned above, I would recommend the TT02B. The car has given me many hours of joy and it has survived many tough tests. A true basher.

If your budget allows it, I would also recommend installing a brushless servo, even if it is an entry-level car. The 3A BEC of the combo you have in mind should handle it. 

[tamiya3speed]

If you go TT-02B, how about the TT-02BR?  Price seems reasonable for all the hop-ups (bearings, aluminum shocks, upgraded driveshaft, universals, etc.). May be just slightly more than DF03 however you shouldn’t need to do anything to add a brushless to it.

[kevinb120]

35 minutes ago, tamiya3speed said:

If you go TT-02B, how about the TT-02BR?  Price seems reasonable for all the hop-ups (bearings, aluminum shocks, upgraded driveshaft, universals, etc.). May be just slightly more than DF03 however you shouldn’t need to do anything to add a brushless to it.

Now that it seems to be a $250 kit I keep wondering the same thing.  Seems like a lot for the price vs the original selling prices.

[LMF5000]

1 hour ago, chris.alex said:

For the requirements mentioned above, I would recommend the TT02B. The car has given me many hours of joy and it has survived many tough tests. A true basher.

If your budget allows it, I would also recommend installing a brushless servo, even if it is an entry-level car. The 3A BEC of the combo you have in mind should handle it. 

Interesting take - I've never had a brushless servo (nor even a digital one for that matter). What makes brushless servos worth the €60 (compared to €20 for metal gear waterproof digital brushed)?

[njmlondon]

I've been watching a lot of YouTube videos about the BBX... looks a lot of fun to build and run and capable of handling a punchy motor. Definitely the best looking modern buggy too IMHO. Just a curve ball to consider!

 

[chris.alex]

19 hours ago, LMF5000 said:

Interesting take - I've never had a brushless servo (nor even a digital one for that matter). What makes brushless servos worth the €60 (compared to €20 for metal gear waterproof digital brushed)?

In my experience, brushless servos are more durable and they work very precisely. A few years ago I decided to invest more money in servos and less in motors. 

[LMF5000]

1 hour ago, chris.alex said:

In my experience, brushless servos are more durable and they work very precisely. A few years ago I decided to invest more money in servos and less in motors. 

Interesting experience. I've never replaced a servo except due to my own stupidity (I was spinning the output by hand, spun the servo horn really fast, and when it got to the end of its travel it hit the stop and the momentum of the motor made it break a few teeth on the plastic gear immediately after the motor pinion - which is why I only buy metal gear servos now; the other servo I broke because I took it apart out of curiosity, disassembled the potentiometer and broke off a few of the fine fingers of the slider so the controller was getting no position signal after that). I think my NSX is still on its original Futaba S3001 despite being frequently driven at 80km/h on a sandy track.

However I've been very curious to try a brushless servo. The cheapest one (€60) specs wise is twice the speed of a good brushed servo (€30). You've convinced me to add it to my cart 😁.

[LMF5000]

After much consideration (and not being convinced by the TT-02's plastic diff gears), I've zeroed in on the TT-02BR. Unfortunately tyres not included, so that's a further cost, but on Tamico the TT-02BR is the same price as the Super Avante, and seems to have much more performance-oriented parts which easily exceed the cost of the kit if bought separately.

Would the TT-02BR happily handle a brushless setup for bashing - or is it a better strategy to get a stock TT-02B then upgrade things after they break?

[chris.alex]

The 22049 diff didn't cause any issues, neither in my XV02 nor in my XM01. I am running both cars with brushless motors, 3800kv and 3370kv. Don't over tighten the small diff screws when you build them. 🙂

[Howards]

Buying a TT02BR.. pfft

BBX. Do it. Will be so much more fun.

[marlinspike]

On 3/1/2025 at 8:12 AM, TurnipJF said:

Of those options, all but one are trying (with various levels of success) to be race buggies. Only the TT-02B is a basher through and through, with simplicity and ruggedness prioritised over adjustability and track prowess.

 

Would not a proper race buggy like from AE or Yokomo not be much more durable than the TT-02? I ask because I am considering a basher buggy having never had a buggy but figured something like the RC10 would be more durable than say the BBX.

[LMF5000]

Decision made - I ordered the TT-02BR.

My rationale was the following:

- the TT-02B was tempting (and really cheap at €91!) but would have been boring for me, basically a repeat of my TT-01

- the Manta Ray styling wasn't my favourite. That and the Top Force are basically the same chassis as my TA-01, so again not much in the way of new experience (about €140)

- the DF-03 Dark Impact (€170) was another tempting one, but it's a 20-year old chassis (released 2006) and parts availability is an issue, some reports of the plain plastic tub breaking at the front and the aluminium main shaft gear wearing

- the VQS (€210) was really, really tempting because it's the only one with a center diff (and for €8 I could buy the gearset of the egress to eliminate the center diff if I melted the original center ball diff). It looked like a good, fun, complex build with planetary diffs (never saw them before), universal shafts, the center ball diff, and a brushless-friendly exposed motor layout similar to the TT-02B. Ultimately I decided not to get this because I read about the handling/layout/capability being "vintage" (whatever they meant by that), doubts as to whether it could handle the power, and doubts on continued availability of parts

- the Super Avante (€250) I pondered for a very long time and read the instruction book half a dozen times. Ultimately I decided there's not enough of a value proposition there. The features are similar to the DF-03 (ball diffs front and back, metal shafts, no u-joints) but it's wrapped up in a convoluted highly-packed chassis that makes maintenance time consuming. Even fitting non-Tamiya brushless motors and ESCs could be a challenge since their wires emerge from a tab or at a right angle instead of straight out the end like Tamiya brushless and all brushed motors. Then there's the need to undo 2 screws and 2 clips to get the battery out, the need for a low-profile servo, and the amount of play in the stock steering system (from YouTube videos), and lastly the limited steering angle due to the spacers. All in all I never really considered this one

- I looked at the BBX (€250) and ruled it out because it's rear wheel drive. I feel like that would hamper how well it could put the power down.

- Finally, I bought the TT-02BR (€270) plus a metal motor mount and metal steering upgrade, fancy brushless servo and rather than my existing motor I went for a new sensored 80A ESC/4100kv motor combo. Sensored so that it doesn't have the low-speed cogging of sensorless motors, and a tamer 4100kv setup to comfortably withstand 3s. This BR is based on the TT-02B platform so has excellent parts availability, but has all the fancy upgrades - fluid-filled differentials, universal joints, upgraded dampers, a lot of metal and some carbon-fiber parts etc. Funnily enough it doesn't include the tyres, so I bought the type-Ks (similar to the ones on the DF-03). Like I wrote earlier the TT chassis have extremely simple drivelines (just 6 gearwheels including the pinion) so in my opinion efficiency should be high (less gear tooth interfaces and bearings that contribute friction) and the number of things that can break is more limited.

We'll see how it goes 😁

[LMF5000]

Well, it's going well so far. The speed is frankly pretty crazy, and I'm impressed at the durability. Here's a video of some speed runs with an impressive flip at the end:

 

[Kowalski86]

On 3/7/2025 at 10:03 AM, marlinspike said:

Would not a proper race buggy like from AE or Yokomo not be much more durable than the TT-02? I ask because I am considering a basher buggy having never had a buggy but figured something like the RC10 would be more durable than say the BBX.

If you're looking for a 2wd buggy just to have fun with, I reccomend the Associated RB10. It's basically an RC10B5 but with more flexible plastics. The B6 is too low to really have fun with off of a track.