Tamiya Sport Tuned Silver Can Question...

[RC_Hobbyist 62]

I purchased a NIB tamiya sport tuned motor for my Hornet Evo.

I know originally, the sport tuned motor came in a black can & in 2019 or so, they switched from a black can to a silver can.

I was just curious if anyone knows why tamiya switch from black (Assuming it was black coated aluminium) to silver (I am assuming aluminum)?

Also, the silver can sport tune has the same specs as the black can?

[Guest]

 

[Superluminal 4101]

I think the outer casing is zinc or nickle plated steel rather than aluminium.

The silver can version notes 23t on the box. Not sure if this has been proven yet.

[RC_Hobbyist 62]

4 minutes ago, Superluminal said:

The silver can version notes 23t on the box. Not sure if this has been proven yet.

I take to no one has taken it apart for science yet?

[Twinfan 2325]

There's no way Tamiya would lie about the turns if they're printed on the box!

Plus I've seen a couple of times the new tested vs the old and the new is generally a touch faster, which makes sense (23T with mild advanced timing > 27T with greater advanced timing).

[alvinlwh 7738]

59 minutes ago, RC_Hobbyist said:

Also, the silver can sport tune has the same specs as the black can?

@Juggular had done a comprehensive test here. 

The silver version is slightly faster than the black one but age maybe a factor. 

They were black in the old days so that in "silver can race", one cannot just remove the label and pretend it to be a silver can. 

[River19 225]

As a side note, as I mentioned in other similar threads on the EVO I have a Tourque Tuned with 19T in my EVO and I find that to be a great combo given the limitations of the stock gearing.

Given how the Hornet drives and the fact it is basically made for short bursts of fun throwing rooster tails of dirt and gravel I honestly don't know why someone would choose the Sport Tuned over the Tourque Tuned in this car unless they already had a ST sitting around.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, River19 said:

 I honestly don't know why someone would choose the Sport Tuned over the Tourque Tuned in this car unless they already had a ST sitting around.

Personal preference maybe? Or doing something different? 

[MadAnt 770]

1 hour ago, River19 said:

As a side note, as I mentioned in other similar threads on the EVO I have a Tourque Tuned with 19T in my EVO and I find that to be a great combo given the limitations of the stock gearing.

Given how the Hornet drives and the fact it is basically made for short bursts of fun throwing rooster tails of dirt and gravel I honestly don't know why someone would choose the Sport Tuned over the Tourque Tuned in this car unless they already had a ST sitting around.

I have an older black Sport tuned motor in one of my old Hornets and a Toque tuned motor in my Grasshopper. By my eye, the speed from the two are very similar. The Sport Tuned motor may have a slight speed edge over the Torque Tuned motor, but my recommended would be to buy which ever is the best price at the time.

Maybe after I'm done optimizing my "stock" Hornet EVO, I might swap the motor for the Torque Tuned from my Grasshopper. 

[River19 225]

1 hour ago, NUFCRc said:

Personal preference maybe? Or doing something different? 

100% to each their own choices......just curious

[GToddC5 2660]

2 years ago, using a Trinity Monster Horsepower Machine, I tested each of these beloved motors @ 7.2V, from brand new:

RS-540SH from a Lunchbox (2005) = 16,400 RPM / 1.23A

RS-540SH from a Blackfoot (2019) = 16,800 RPM / 1.15A

RS-540 Sport Tuned Black (1990) = 21,400 RPM / 2.00A

RS-540 Sport Tuned Silver (2019) = 21,100 RPM / 1.65A

RS-540 Torque Tuned (2012) = 19,300 RPM / 1.35A

RS-540 GT Tuned (2005) = 16,400 RPM / 1.90A * Run @ 8.4V -> GT Tuned = 19,400 RPM / 2.07A

RX-540SD Technipower (1984) = 20,100 RPM / 1.68A

RX-540SD Technituned (1985) = 16,800 RPM / 1.02A

RX-540VZ Technigold (1986) = 21,000 RPM / 1.80A * Run @ 8.4V -> Technigold = 25,000 RPM / 1.96A

Dynatech 02H (1989) = 28,700 RPM / 2.60A

 

Edit to add: No, my data isn't wrong for the GT Tuned. In fact, I tested another one later and got similar results. So technically it is a 19k motor - at 8.4V! LOL

[River19 225]

@GToddC5  And then it all changes when we add load lol

When setting timing on my brushless motors some motors look great on the bench analyzer, then when under load things change......

[GToddC5 2660]

1 minute ago, River19 said:

@GToddC5  And then it all changes when we add load lol

When setting timing on my brushless motors some motors look great on the bench analyzer, then when under load things change......

Well yeah, sure, but some data for data's sake.

[alvinlwh 7738]

38 minutes ago, GToddC5 said:

Edit to add: No, my data isn't wrong for the GT Tuned. In fact, I tested another one later and got similar results. So technically it is a 19k motor - at 8.4V! LOL

That is disappointing, and also consistent with my findings. I always thought of the (U)GT as a rebuildable Sport Tuned but the numbers showed it to be just a silver can. Also, it explains why my GT feels so slow. 

[Thommo 1422]

You can gear up with GT Tuned though, and it keeps pulling for longer. That’s the load factor…. 

[Juggular 5189]

Below test was done on with gear ratio of about 8, which seem tiny bit tall for grass. 

The silver can struggles, but GT tuned pulls slightly faster than Sport tuned initially.  Maybe the torque is at lower band?  In the end, Sport Tuned achieves higher speed, which might just mean Sport Tuned having the max torque at higher RPM.  

 

[MadAnt 770]

2 hours ago, GToddC5 said:

RS-540 GT Tuned (2005) = 16,400 RPM / 1.90A

That is odd when the spec is 19,000@ 7.2V and this result would be well out of the margin of error. I wonder if the motor was not timed right from the factory?

2 hours ago, GToddC5 said:

RS-540 Sport Tuned Black (1990) = 21,400 RPM / 2.00A

RS-540 Sport Tuned Silver (2019) = 21,100 RPM / 1.65A

That's so close, you can call it the same.

[alvinlwh 7738]

18 minutes ago, MadAnt said:

That's so close, you can call it the same.

However the newer one seems to be 20% more efficient (drawing less amps). 

[GToddC5 2660]

1 hour ago, MadAnt said:

That is odd when the spec is 19,000@ 7.2V and this result would be well out of the margin of error. I wonder if the motor was not timed right from the factory?

Two so far though?

[GToddC5 2660]

1 hour ago, Juggular said:

Below test was done on with gear ratio of about 8, which seem tiny bit tall for grass. 

The silver can struggles, but GT tuned pulls slightly faster than Sport tuned.  Maybe the torque is at lower band?  In the end, Sport Tuned achieves higher speed, which might just mean ST having the torque at higher RPM.  

 

Ha, my YT comment has the testing data that I shared ~ 2 years ago.

[MadAnt 770]

3 hours ago, GToddC5 said:

Two so far though?

Maybe both are from the same batch. If it's every or a good amount of GT tuned motors, then Tamiya has a false advertising problem.

[ThunderDragonCy 8991]

This would explain why the gt tuned in Daffy felt so slow when using the standard DF01 gearing. Although another look at the specs shows the GT Tuned has 500g/cm torque, compared to claimed 350g/cm for Sport Tuned which is a lot more. Plus electric motors deliver their max torque at zero revs, so that also explains why the GT Tuned quite easily hauls the tall gear I put in Daffy now I have the High Speed gearset. I got the GT Tuned for a good price off Plaza Japan, but I think given these findings and Tamiyas propensity to under gear its buggies, I think the Sport Tuned has a lot to say at only a couple of quid more than a Torque Tuned.

[GToddC5 2660]

9 hours ago, MadAnt said:

Maybe both are from the same batch. If it's every or a good amount of GT tuned motors, then Tamiya has a false advertising problem.

This is a case where'd I'd love to be wrong, so I'll test some more. I haven't spun up any of the special GT tuned yet (Bigwig, Avante/Black Specials)

[alvinlwh 7738]

If the claimed RPM is so far off the claimed (-13%), I wonder how far off the claimed torque it really is. 

[Twinfan 2325]

17 hours ago, GToddC5 said:

RS-540 Sport Tuned Silver (2019) = 21,100 RPM / 1.65A

RS-540 GT Tuned (2005) = 16,400 RPM / 1.90A * Run @ 8.4V -> GT Tuned = 19,400 RPM / 2.07A

Tamiya say:

Sport Tuned: https://www.tamiya.com/english/products/53068/index.html

"★Input voltage: 6-8.4V ★Maximum torque: 350g-cm (at 7.2V) ★Maximum RPM: 18,300 (at 7.2V) ★23T

GT-Tuned: https://tamiya.com/english/products/53779/index.html

"★Input voltage: 7.2-8.4V ★RPM (without load): 19,000 ★Maximum torque: 500g/cm (@ 7.2V)"

Based on that, I think the specified GT-Tuned RPM was measured at 8.4v, as @GToddC5 pointed out, and Tamiya are being a little coy on their website.  Although on the box they claim it was at 7.2v...... 

The Sport Tuned over performs and the GT-Tuned under performs.  The Sport Tuned seems to be the best upgrade option for the money if you're using a Tamiya ESC by the look of it.