Daily rant, just because

[GToddC5]

3 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

You know with Trump pulling down the shutters trying to even the playing ground, Traxxas may be the only company have less left in USA and no one left to sue. 

Fixt. Let the man do his work for US please.

[Wooders28]

2 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

They should just stop including a silver can in their kits. Their standard kits do not even come with an ESC, it is the importer that usually shove one into the box. Most other brands don't include any electronics leaving the choice to the buyer. 

I've been selling the motors and escs nip, (although the last 2 I got where the TBLE-04S, i think its the hobbywing in the recent Avante purchase so I'll keep that , but sell the GT tuned 2011 motor) for more than the price they knock off the kit. Modelsport have the Hornet at £116, and the Hornet without the esc £105, I'd pay the £11 for a 1060 (the tble04s I was selling for £25, as they're £50).

[SlideWRX]

16 hours ago, vodka said:

Ecosystem:

• Tyres: same tyres again and again.. ok, we don’t need to reinvent the wheel every time... but this is too much. XD bad
• Spares: Need a tiny piece of something? Here’s a tree of 42 unrelated bits. Do not worry, you can always sell it as "various spares". bad
• Lifepo: I’ve always appreciated the idea, but outside Japan it’s a hassle (I don't know in Japan). Why not support your export customers with compatible batteries? I have to use NiMH? Really?? bad
• Battery plug: in 2025 still using the old Tamiya plug? comon... bad
• esc and motor: not the best out there... but I can deal it. meh
• Radio gear: Radio what? bad

Competitive tires are their own thing, so I can understand not keeping up with those.  Fun use tires, like Rally tires could use an update though.

The problem with Spares is more that they rotate between so many re-res, things become scarce quickly. And they tend to break more often, either because of plastic choice or older designs...

Yeah virtually no Lifepo in the US, and I really haven't seen a good comparison vs NiMH and Lipo in terms of output and longevity.  Also, those of us who decided to wait for the next big thing in batteries, hopefully something less flammable are waiting longer than expected.  A lot of other chemistries and things like solid state have been showing 'promise' for 5-10 years now...

The Tamiya plug isn't great, and should have been replaced by one of the options 15+ years ago.  Yeah it works on stock 540s, and occasionally a little bit spicier options, but really that is it.  For all the other upgraded options, they just assume you will chop off the Tamiya plug and solder on something new I guess.  The other side of this is the unfortunate Traxxas & Spectrum plugs, trying to suck you into their 'ecosystem' so you only buy their stuff.  Seems like a generic Lipo plug with the balance leads built in needs to be done across the board to avoid that kind of BS.

ESC and motor - I kinda like that they did the flexible ESCs that could handle brushed & brushless, but the market for motors and ESCs has changed enough I think, particularly cheaper for fun-running that I think they should outsource this like they did with the HW1060. HobbyWing has the volume to get the costs down; take advantage of that.

Same with radio gear I think - they should outsource.  I have never used Tamiya radio gear or servos or anything, so I may not be the market for those products.

 

 

[Kowalski86]

1 hour ago, GToddC5 said:

Fixt. Let the man do his work for US please.

And let US stick to discussing toy cars, not politics.

[kevinb120]

Anyways.... If Tamiya had a Fazer it could offer a bunch of classic shells in rtr format with a moderate hop-ups line to supplant the kit market.

[GToddC5]

43 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

And let US stick to discussing toy cars, not politics.

Agreed. I'm not on a soap box, I just like encouraging people to step off of theirs.

[Honza]

21 hours ago, vodka said:

Touring car:

• TRF line up: technically solid and well-made, but rarely seen on track (nowadays). There are better performing options out there. OK
• TB series: an nice alternative to TRF, but again, rare on track. Good club chassis. meh
• TT: Entry-level chassis, often misused. As a learning platform, it has value, and the ecosystem around it is strong. But if you’re buying a TT-0SSR-XRXR Type E or whatever... there are cheaper and better alternatives, even within Tamiya’s own lineup.  meh / bad 

You're missing a lot here...

TB series is basically dead, unfortunately... TB-05R re-release is likely the last thing We'll see.

TA-series is quite interesting - Tamiya often experiments here, so it was first Tamiya to feature new suspension style.

TC-01 - another interesting chassis, unfortunately Formula-E body is disproportional and Tamiya took its time to release it with another body that would take advantage of its build..

M-series - This is where Tamiya shines, IMO. The nicest bodies, decent chassis in the form of M-07, M-08 and XM-01. Even MF-01 can be fun. 

But there's also MB-01/BT-01 - TT-02 with the few good things removed...

According to reviews, TRF421 isn't bad at all. There's no need for yearly upgrades, like other "high-tech luxury" manufacturers do, just to fix mistakes they did a year earlier due to rushed development.. what hurts TRF is lack of factory team, which is why they stopped with buggies.

[yogi-bear]

5 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

 

5 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Firstly, my Trump comment was made tongue in cheek. This is not the forum to get political. 

Agreed, I didn't think I was being political though, but didn't intend to be either, just an observation that all RC manufacturers are affected, I'll end it there.

 

Back on topic, I think Tamiya are fine, they are quirky for sure and I don't get some of the things they do, such as all the Hornet releases, (someone must be buying them!). I am in the hobby mainly for nostalgia, collecting kits I wanted as a kid, but for sure some have been disappointing in some ways - Tamiya connectors aren't great (I'm slowly switching over to XT60 unless its a vintage car), and my first drive of a Brat last year was a bit underwhelming. Still I am glad Tamiya do what they do and aren't like too many other RC manufacturers. Although metal bearings in a kit would be nice 

I ran my first Kyosho last year and it's awesome, but in saying that I still have plans to upgrade a Hotshot and Frog to get better performance out of them. Fools errand maybe, costly too, sure I could buy another Kyosho (I did actually!)  but it'll be fun! 

I think it also helps that I don't race anything, its only about the nostalgia, the building/restoring and modifying for me, so for that Tamiya by and large are fine.

[matisse]

I’m at a loss for how this has gone on so long, it’s simply the effect of a capitalist market place. 

Tamiya found their market and found a way to maximise consumer interest and spending, much like any company.

do we really need to upgrade everything we buy? No, but we do it and they keep releasing new products to sustain interest.

if we are keeping it RC, look at how other manufacturers have followed Tamiyas ReRe trend but in their own way, what is there recent blitz of RC10s but AEs very own set of Hornet releases? Relentless versions of the same thing with tiny tweaks to get people talking. Tamiyas advantage is that they have a deeper well of models to plumb for releases. 

and also, Smoot-Hawley, read up and it should provide a fascinating comparison to the current global position. 

[magnumcyclonex]

This is a great thread. I've enjoyed reading everyone's responses thus far.

I equate Tamiya to the likes of Toyota and Nintendo. We all know how reputable Toyota is. Many of their cars can last 15/20+ years. Do regular maintenance, drive it decently well (you hardly need to redline), and you save yourself money from having to buy a new car every 5-10 years, had you bought another brand. In addition, Toyota / Lexus are slow to adopt new technologies. They know what's tried and true and will keep using the same components for generations.

Then we have Nintendo. Think about all the consoles they've made. They're innovative, quirky, interesting, and technically and graphically underpowered compared to the Playstation and XBOX. But they are still running strong. They have an insane library of games that back up all the crazy console ideas/shapes/controllers they've put out. With Nintendo Switch Online (NSO), they've drip fed us older gamers classic games from the 80s and 90s, digitally. They also re-release old game titles that originated on their prior consoles. And people BUY them, because nostalgia is a thing.

When it comes to nostalgia, I agree that none of the kids of today will pine after a Plasma Edge II 20/30 years from now. There's so much competition when it comes to hobbies, toys, pastimes these days. Attention spans have decreased significantly, and everyone (including us older people) want that instant dopamine rush of the hot new thing. Whether it's doom scrolling on social media, youtube, reddit, this very forum, we are inclined to want to engage in new tech, new toys, new video reels/clips, and new threads on the Tamiya Club Forums.

Tamiya hit the jackpot with it's marketing strategy when it comes to R/C's. It is a tried and true method and there's no reason for them to change that. The entry level and TT series are the gateway drug to this hobby. The TT01 and TT02 allow people to build whatever kit with whatever body they like, and if they choose to shelf queen, the cost is lower because only bushings are included. A basic battery connector is enough to allow their build to run outside for fun. When people want to take the TT02 to a higher level, there's option parts to get. They know people love to own their creations. That sense of ownership and accomplishment of building something, making it work, fixing it, upgrading it, running it again is what makes these kits so appealing.

I can equate this strategy to trading card games. There are starter decks to get you going. A defined concept and playstyle is introduced. Then, there are booster packs that offer cards to make the deck's strategy stronger, more coherent, faster etc. You buy the starter deck (R/C kit) and booster packs (option parts) and assemble them into a better performing creation, that you can now compete against others with. 

Their Mini 4WD lineup is impressive. They worked with mangakas and two (there are more) of those mangas became very popular animes in the late 80s and 90s. You can see that the same strategy used on the TT-02 was used for their Mini 4WDs. The same chassis, but different bodies. When Mini 4WD racing became a thing, other companies wanted in. I don't know the full backstory, but somehow, Tamiya prevailed and the other companies that attempted (one of them was Bandai) eventually quit, leaving Tamiya with a virtual monopoly of this hobby. Well, it IS a monopoly when they run their own events in Japan (the Japan Cup) and stipulate you must only use Tamiya parts. And of course, just like the TT-02, you can start with a basic Mini 4WD kit, or even a Mini 4WD Starter Pack designed for racing with some introductory hop ups, and upgrade your Mini 4WD from that point forward.

Tamiya are really happy to camp out in their own carved out niche of the hobby and R/C market. We might only or mainly talk about R/C vehicles here, but every month, they have releases of static models. These can range from cars, trucks, boats, various military units, and even dinosaurs etc etc. They are happy to forego getting involved in some aspects of the hobby industry because they make bank on other aspects that no other company is involved in. They do their own thing, and are seemingly immune to decades of trends that have come and gone. The only thing I worry about is how long can they "rely" on their "favorite" or classic R/C models moving forward. 

[Saito2]

6 hours ago, GToddC5 said:

7 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

And let US stick to discussing toy cars, not politics.

Agreed. I'm not on a soap box, I just like encouraging people to step off of theirs.

 

8 hours ago, GToddC5 said:

12 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

You know with Trump pulling down the shutters trying to even the playing ground, Traxxas may be the only company have less left in USA and no one left to sue. 

Fixt. Let the man do his work for US please.

No, you weren't. While alvinlwh's post was self-admittedly tongue-in-cheek, it also dealt with the impact current decisions may have on the RC hobby.

Your "editing" of his statement was just an attempt to push or display your viewpoint on the subject by being "cute".

Your post does nothing to encourage others to step off their soapbox like Kowalski's did. If anything, it fanned the flames, inviting more debate.

The above statements may have seemed harsh but after dealing with politics being rammed into every conversation lasting more than 2 minutes in every other aspect of life, I for one, would like it not to proliferate on this beloved toy car forum. If it must be discussed because the tariffs will effect the hobby, I'd suggest, as others have, to keep it (ironically) in the Anything not related to RC portion of the forum. The line between tariff effects and politics is so thin/non-existent it will be tough to have civilized discussion.

[vodka]

On 4/15/2025 at 9:08 PM, zuqbu said:

 OP I think you need to take a step back and realise that you might have some personal bias. A lot of people in this thread already mentioned this but Tamiya is primarily focused on Japan, and they are a private company and can do what they want without pressure from shareholders (trust me on this, you don't want pressure from shareholders).

No personal bias here,  just an opinion (shared by many other users in this thread) based on what I see as a loyal paying customer. I don’t care if Tamiya’s main focus is Japan... they officially export worldwide, and that comes with a responsibility to consider global customers too.

I don’t want to repeat myself over and over, but in 2025, selling a kit with a brushed motor and a NiMH-compatible ESC just feels outdated. Stop. That’s not about nostalgia, it’s simply behind the curve.

Quote

Tamiya has chosen not to compete in these categories. They offer basic entry-level options, and that's it. Why should they stretch their resources?

I’m not asking for JConcepts or Pro-Line quality... just the bare minimum. Even a decent tire would be nice. Instead, we keep seeing the same model of tire used across the Nitro Crusher, RevStorm, Super Levant, Levant, Vajra, and even the DynaHead. I can understand reusing it on similar platforms like the Levant and old nitro variant, but on a G6-01 too?

That feels lazy to me.

In the TRF line, they leave electronics and tires out so racers can choose based on their club rules, and that’s fair. But for bashers or casual builds, something appealing would be appreciated.

When I say Tamiya isn’t competitive, I’m not talking about raw performance. I mean in terms of features, style, and price, especially outside Japan. We hare here, so we love Tamiya style, but look at Traxxas: for 300 bucks you gets a complete modern basher with ESC, radio gear and battery. And that includes export taxes and R&D. For the same price, Tamiya offers a Clod Buster, which many of us buy purely out of childhood nostalgia. Ok, it's iconic, that’s fine if it sells, but for me, it’s not a fair offer in 2025. That’s all I’m saying.

@Mad Ax summed it up well: he doesn’t care about any of that missing selling point. And that’s totally valid too. But we can’t ignore the fact that Tamiya today isn’t offering the same level of features or value as many competitors.

Quote

The TRF421 is competitive and easy to drive, even at the highest level.

Absolutely. The TRF421 is a great car, Tamiya just lacks an official team. But I’m not here to debate whether it’s the best or not. That’s not the point of my rant. It’s a solid offering in the touring car category.
That said, just because we’re talking about it... where’s the Tamiya soul here? Strip away the shiny blue bits and you’ve basically got a Mugen, an Xray, or something similar... and that’s totally fine.

[vodka]

 15 hours ago, Honza said:

TC-01 - another interesting chassis, unfortunately Formula-E body is disproportional and Tamiya took its time to release it with another body that would take advantage of its build..

My fault, never looked at this chassis.

 

15 hours ago, Honza said:

M-series - This is where Tamiya shines, IMO. The nicest bodies, decent chassis in the form of M-07, M-08 and XM-01. Even MF-01 can be fun. 

My bad… again. I’ve always loved the M-chassis — cheap and fun. The M07 and M08 were definitely appealing, but the MB-01 just didn’t do it for me. I still have a limited M-05 Black Edition waiting to be built, but I’m honestly thinking of selling it.

[Rinskie]

2 hours ago, vodka said:

I don’t care if Tamiya’s main focus is Japan... they officially export worldwide, and that comes with a responsibility to consider global customers too.

Say what? How does this even remotely makes sense? 

 

[Thommo]

 

There's a saying in business - You can only keep some of your customers happy all of the time or all of your customers happy some of the time ! 

[alvinlwh]

2 hours ago, vodka said:

I don’t want to repeat myself over and over, but in 2025, selling a kit with a brushed motor and a NiMH-compatible ESC just feels outdated.

There was a similar rant about this just a few weeks ago and I have to repeat myself. Many of the kits that come with ESC to you did not have them when they left the Tamiya factory. By default (and you will find it all over the Far East), Tamiya kits usually do not come with an ESC. If you buy IRL in a shop out there, you will often be reminded that there is no ESC. It was your local importer that threw in an ESC that you see in the box today, and marked up the price accordingly. This can easily be verified by checking pictures of actual boxes of the same kit in Asia vs the one you have. The "ESC included" sticker was slapped on like an after thought. Even in the instructions, the ESC is often, if not always, listed as not included. 

The brushed motor, I believe, is meant to be a place holder as sometimes a car cannot be completed without installing a motor. For example, the pinion gear and motor screws. OK this is pure speculation, Japan homes are really small. Once completed, the boxes are probably disposed of. Leftovers may or may not be kept. They do not have garages or sheds full of every kind of spares. So they install the silver can first, then remove it but reuse the screws, motor plate and pinion on the new motor. 

3 hours ago, vodka said:

I don’t care if Tamiya’s main focus is Japan... they officially export worldwide, and that comes with a responsibility to consider global customers too.

Actually they don't, that is not the Japanese way. Take it or leave it is how they roll. However, given their quality (Honda, Toyota, Sony, Tamiya) many chose to take it. As above, it was your local importer that threw in a non-lipo ESC and therefore they should be responsible. 

3 hours ago, vodka said:

Instead, we keep seeing the same model of tire used across the Nitro Crusher, RevStorm, Super Levant, Levant, Vajra, and even the DynaHead. I can understand reusing it on similar platforms like the Levant and old nitro variant, but on a G6-01 too?

That feels lazy to me.

I believe this started off as the Toyota Way (I could be wrong). Use the same part across different models to reduce cost and simplify supply chain. This is now practiced by most manufacturers of real cars across the world. Sometimes the same parts are even used across brands (Renault - Dacia, Toyota - Peugeot - Citroen). 

Also, again, placeholder until you buy and install some better ones. 

Don't get me wrong, I share your view, many of the Tamiya cars just feels like place holders with all parts upgradable. I had built two complete cars out of leftovers (or is that hopups?), which basically show that the original kit was not even needed. 

[matisse]

6 hours ago, Rinskie said:

Say what? How does this even remotely makes sense? 

 

Agreed, the thing with business is that there is I responsibility to customers at all. Customer sentiment only matters if it alters the bottom line, so its natural for a company to focus on their core market. 

[skom25]

9 hours ago, vodka said:

When I say Tamiya isn’t competitive, I’m not talking about raw performance. I mean in terms of features, style, and price, especially outside Japan. We hare here, so we love Tamiya style, but look at Traxxas: for 300 bucks you gets a complete modern basher with ESC, radio gear and battery. And that includes export taxes and R&D. For the same price, Tamiya offers a Clod Buster, which many of us buy purely out of childhood nostalgia. Ok, it's iconic, that’s fine if it sells, but for me, it’s not a fair offer in 2025. That’s all I’m saying.

Yes, they are bit "outdated". 

At the same time, they sell their product and have a lot of fans around the world.

If you do not like current offer, why don't you just buy RC from other company? Do you need Tamiya logo on RC to feel happy?

I understand your point of view ( my is similar as I wrote at beginning), but what is the problem to buy something different?

[vodka]

On 4/17/2025 at 3:14 AM, alvinlwh said:

There was a similar rant about this just a few weeks ago and I have to repeat myself. Many of the kits that come with ESC to you did not have them when they left the Tamiya factory. By default (and you will find it all over the Far East), Tamiya kits usually do not come with an ESC. If you buy IRL in a shop out there, you will often be reminded that there is no ESC. It was your local importer that threw in an ESC that you see in the box today, and marked up the price accordingly. This can easily be verified by checking pictures of actual boxes of the same kit in Asia vs the one you have. The "ESC included" sticker was slapped on like an after thought. Even in the instructions, the ESC is often, if not always, listed as not included. 

I get it. Tamiya operates this way, and some people are fine with it. That’s totally valid.

But personally, I believe brand consistency across markets is part of protecting the identity of a brand and showing care for the customer. If I walk into an IKEA store in my city, I’ll get the same user experience as someone in another country. Same with Apple: apart from things like local network compatibility, an iPhone is an iPhone wherever you buy it.

And to give another example: if you buy a Ferrari in any part of the world, you’re not allowed to repaint it just any way you like without getting crucified by the brand. That’s how tightly controlled some companies are when it comes to brand image, and honestly I think that’s fair.

If Tamiya doesn’t see it the same way that’s totally fine, I'm just a customer like others.

On 4/17/2025 at 3:14 AM, alvinlwh said:

There was a similar rant about this just a few weeks ago and I have to repeat myself. Many of the kits that come with ESC to you did not have them when they left the Tamiya factory. By default (and you will find it all over the Far East), Tamiya kits usually do not come with an ESC. If you buy IRL in a shop out there, you will often be reminded that there is no ESC. It was your local importer that threw in an ESC that you see in the box today, and marked up the price accordingly. This can easily be verified by checking pictures of actual boxes of the same kit in Asia vs the one you have. The "ESC included" sticker was slapped on like an after thought. Even in the instructions, the ESC is often, if not always, listed as not included. 

Sony made the PS3 with some truly questionable engineering choices, simply because they were the biggest name in the market and thought they could get away with it. After the whole mess (and Xbox sales), they actually listened to fans and developers and came back with the PS4, arguably the best console of its generation. So yes, even the “Japanese way” can evolve.

On 4/17/2025 at 9:33 AM, skom25 said:

I understand your point of view ( my is similar as I wrote at beginning), but what is the problem to buy something different?

 No problem really. Just one of those daily rants. I’m here on Tamiya Club because it’s fun to share opinions with other Tamiya fans. If I ever go for another brand, I guess I’ll move my rants to their forum 😄

On 4/17/2025 at 2:27 AM, Rinskie said:

Say what? How does this even remotely makes sense? 

If you officially sell your products in other countries through official distributors (not just through grey imports), then you are (at least in part) responsible for how your brand is perceived and experienced globally.

I’m not saying Japan shouldn’t be the main focus, but when there’s an official sale in a market, it’s not unreasonable for customers to expect a certain standard. Does that make sense for you?

[Rinskie]

39 minutes ago, vodka said:

If you officially sell your products in other countries through official distributors (not just through grey imports), then you are (at least in part) responsible for how your brand is perceived and experienced globally.

I’m not saying Japan shouldn’t be the main focus, but when there’s an official sale in a market, it’s not unreasonable for customers to expect a certain standard. Does that make sense for you?

Nope, still doesn't. Nobody owes you anything and that includes your perceptions. What do you propose? Are they suppose to put you on their payroll in an advisory capacity to ensure they are making products that appeal to people's perceptions worldwide? Or should they continue to make products that excite themselves that attract like minded folks both within and outside their country? Do you have any idea how self centered your view on this is? It's your responsibility to understand what the product is, its design limitations, its uses and its intent. If those line up with your wants and needs then by all means, by the thing. If they don't, then don't. No need to make it hard. No need to rant. Spend your time instead looking for solutions to your needs. Maybe Xray would enjoy hearing a list of your demands. Or Possibly Traxxas? 

 

[vodka]

4 hours ago, Rinskie said:

Nobody owes you anything and that includes your perceptions.

I never said Tamiya or anyone else owes me anything. I'm simply sharing my opinion on a public forum made to discuss this brand. It’s just my feedback. If we don’t share personal impressions (good or bad) then this wouldn’t really be a community, would it?

4 hours ago, Rinskie said:

Are they suppose to put you on their payroll in an advisory capacity to ensure they are making products that appeal to people's perceptions worldwide?

Of course not. I never claimed to have the right answers for everyone. I'm not pretending to speak on behalf of the world... It’s a conversation about expectations, not entitlements.

4 hours ago, Rinskie said:

Do you have any idea how self centered your view on this is?

Really not. I don’t think it's self centered to believe that a global brand should consider its global customers. That’s standard practice for many other international companies.

And I’m not asking for a 6s turbo rocket or to copy something... just for a few improvements in their overall offering.

Maybe just some nicely revised Tamiya kits… (BB-01 is a good starting point)

Maybe support for their own battery tech? I want to support the LF battery line, but there’s no offer around it, so their tble end up being so-so.

Maybe, if they’ve silently decided that LiFePo4 is a dead end, why not give us an ESC that properly supports LiPo instead?

Maybe, if they’re no longer interested in selling motors, batteries, radio etc. (fine) why not check on what official resellers are doing. Slapping stickers on boxes just to upsell crap gear isn’t a good look.

Too revolutionary?

4 hours ago, Rinskie said:

It's your responsibility to understand what the product is, its design limitations, its uses and its intent.

True. And I often do exactly that. But again, this is a hobby forum, and sharing opinions (even critical ones) is part of the process. That includes highlighting things we feel could be improved. I’m not boycotting Tamiya, I still buy and enjoy their kits.

4 hours ago, Rinskie said:

No need to rant.

My english maybe isn’t perfect, and some parts of what I said came across as a bit entitled or not fully shaped, sorry for that, but the core of my point still stands. Just expressing some thoughts among fellow Tamiya enthusiasts.

[skom25]

5 hours ago, Rinskie said:

Nope, still doesn't. Nobody owes you anything and that includes your perceptions. What do you propose? Are they suppose to put you on their payroll in an advisory capacity to ensure they are making products that appeal to people's perceptions worldwide? Or should they continue to make products that excite themselves that attract like minded folks both within and outside their country? Do you have any idea how self centered your view on this is? It's your responsibility to understand what the product is, its design limitations, its uses and its intent. If those line up with your wants and needs then by all means, by the thing. If they don't, then don't. No need to make it hard. No need to rant. Spend your time instead looking for solutions to your needs. Maybe Xray would enjoy hearing a list of your demands. Or Possibly Traxxas? 

 

I think you are too harsh...

So, only good opinions about Tamiya are allowed?

[Guest]

Sure is a lot of bitching on here, isn't this supposed to be a nice friendly forum?? 

[toyolien]

Just now, Dangerous_Beard said:

Sure is a lot of bitching on here, isn't this supposed to be a nice friendly forum?? 

Here here. I think this thread has run it's course. Agree to disagree and move on...

[Guest]

Just now, toyolien said:

Here here. I think this thread has run it's course. Agree to disagree and move on...

There's enough conflict going on in this world without it spilling onto a forum for radio control cars.