Going anywhere: CC-02, CR-01 or something else?

[Rookie Rabbit]

Tamiyaclub community,

 

spring has arrived and the tree of my R/C interest has grown a new branch: going anywhere, but at a slow pace. As much as I love my - now overpowered - Sand Viper, I would love to go where no buggy has gone before.

So far, I discarded the following options (for the following reasons) in Tamiya's current lineup: Lunch Box & Midnight Pumpkin (stunt car), Wild Willy (stunt car), Squash Van (monster truck), Monster Beetle & Blackfoot & Blitzer Beetle (2WD), Clod Buster (2 motors), Bruiser (too expensive), Dynahead & King Yellow & Kong Head & Volvo dump truck(not realistic), Hilux High Lift (lesser Bruiser), Comical Buggies (comical), Quad Trucks (tracks).

My current choices are therefore:
- CC-02 Land Rover Defender (142€)
- CC-02 Unimog 406 (220€)
- CR-01 Rock Socker (270€)
- CR-01 Unimog 406 (300€)

In terms of bodies, the Unimog is the most interesting (although not as interesting to me as the Unimog 425 body), the Rock Socker the most universal (because it is identical to the Stadium Blitzer), and the Defender the cheapest (although I do not like off road cars).

More than eighty percent of my country's floor area is used for vegetation (agriculture or forest, with either covered in snow for a few months per year), and I like to be able to use as much as possible (within legal, ecological, etc. limits, of course!) with my next R/C car without any emphasis on speed. What is my best option?

Thank you very much in advance!

 

Best,
Rookie Rabbit

 

PS:
Having posted this, I am now off to a short holiday to where I marvelled over Tamiya catalogues twenty years ago.

[Frog Jumper]

I am a big fan of the CC02…

[urban warrior]

If I would have to chose between the CC-02 and the CR-01, I would take the CC-01 ... 🤪 ... just kidding!

Although I have my bias' against both of the chassis ... from the viewpoint of building them, I would say the CR-01 is the better "go anywhere" choice because of its larger wheels/tires and a bit more clearance under the axles. You may lock or unlock the differentials with less hassle than with a CC-02 if required (even though not as "comfortable" as in a TRX-4). Sometimes a locked rear or front diff may be making a difference between fun or frustration in the field (or woods). But expect a greater turning radius with locked differentials. The battery location more to the front may also be a positive point here.

The choice of the body is a question of personal taste. I would always chose a "real" car/truck body over a "generic" one. But that's just me. I simply do not like bodies like the Rock Socker (what a weird name) or a Landfreeder (even more weird!) or even the Agrios (I cannot get over it, it still sounds to me as if the term "aggression" is hidden in this name although I know it should mean something more "agricultural"). So out of your list the CR-01 UNIMOG would be my choice, especially because I really like the 406 body. But In your case, you still can sell the 406 body and get a 425 body instead.

[Juggular]

As I've been saying: "when in doubt, get both."  It's a matter of which one first.  I'd go for the older one, since the price would be down.  But I did get a Nxgen instead of BBX, even though BBX is older.  Also both CC02 and CR01 have been around.  

Anyway.  From your list, CC02 Land Rover is the cheapest. I'd get that, and buy the Unimog 426 shell. I prefer 406, but not willing to pay 220 Euro if I could get the Land Rover for 140.  Since you like 426, might as well get the cheapest chassis, auction off that shell and get the one you want.  Basically what @urban warrior said, except I focus more on the cost. But CR01 could go more places than CC02 out of the box.  You can lock diffs on CC02 and get bigger tires, but that will cost.  I'm not a big fan of the tires of CR01.  So I might still choose the cheapest CC02 and choose the tires I prefer. 

 

[Mad Ax]

Going anywhere at a slow pace is becoming a real big thing now.  There's even an app for it - called Scaletra.

I think what you're talking about is a "trail rig" - I have a few of these and there are various places to start, depending really on your trail.  If you're mostly on footpaths then even a CC-01 will manage, perhaps with a locked rear diff, although it's a far from perfect chassis and will have its limitations.

I would expect the CC-02 to be fine in most cases, but if you are leaving the footpaths and going over vegetation than, really, anything will struggle.  Even dedicated crawlers struggle on plants that get wrapped around the wheels or twigs that poke up through the suspension.  It really depends on how long your vegetation is, how many fallen twigs you get, and how many tree roots you need to get over.

Typically I like my trail rigs to look like real vehicles, albeit ones that are modded for off-road driving, i.e. bigger tyres and lifted suspension.  The CC-02 is a good starting point for that, although competitors like the TRX-4, Element Enduro, SCX-10 etc. are going to run rings around it in terms of traction, terrain handling etc.  If you aren't brand loyal, I would say to at least give those options a look - and there are many more, from G-made, MST, Boom Racing, the list goes on, it's a huge market now.  All of them are objectively better than Tamiya for this sort of thing, but that doesn't mean you can't have fun on the trails with the CC-02 or CR-01.  In fact it's probably where they are at their best - as long as you don't go too far off the beaten track.

Even a cheap FTX Outback RTR will perform well on the trails, although earlier models had weak axles.  I think the Outback 3.0 and others based on that platform have stronger axles, and their bodies have got more realistic too.  I'm in the process of converting a modified Outback 2.0 into a walking truck, with the intention of it being able to handle 10-mile walks on short grass, gravel and dirt footpaths, while towing a trailer with tools and spares in.

[Rookie Rabbit]

Thank you all, @Frog Jumper, @urban warrior, @Juggular, @Mad Ax!

What makes you a big fan of the CC-02 chassis, Frog Jumper? And why do you, Urban Warrior, prefer a CC-01 over either?

To be perfectly honest, I dreamed of an R/C car which could go off paths, and use the space around them. I thought about long and dry grass, which can "lock" wheels in place, but didn't think about twigs. It may be a stupid question, but where does a CC-02 get stuck but a CR-01 does not?

I like the idea of choosing my own body, I even found a CC-02 kit without wheels, body or ESC for 100€, for less hassle with selling parts. Unfortunately a complete body set for a Unimog 425 is 95€ at the moment. While I also dislike many of Tamiya's more modern generic bodies, the Rock Scorcher has some 90s style to it, I like to think. I like a semi realistic look, but have no desire for any off road car body, which makes my choice really difficult.

As for other brands, I'll check them out for kit offerings - thanks.

Basically, I wonder whether the CR-01 offers more value for its increased price. To be perfectly honest, though, I may wait for a better deal on either Unimog.

 

Best,
Rookie Rabbit

[Mad Ax]

1 hour ago, Rookie Rabbit said:

It may be a stupid question, but where does a CC-02 get stuck but a CR-01 does not?

It's actually a good question, and the answer can vary from "it depends" to "they both get stuck in the same place, but not at the same time."

My replies are fairly generic since I've not actually driven a CC-02 or a CR-01, but I have a bit of experience trailing with scale trucks of various sizes.

The main difference is ground clearance - the CR-02 has bigger wheels, so it will roll over more obstacles because the axles or underfloor get hung up.  Consider a rock on the path that will run under the CR-02 axle but will catch on the CC-02 axle.  But depending on the terrain, you can see the obstacles on the ground and drive around them - it's really just a simpler version of rock crawling, where you have to pick your lines and approaches carefully so your tyres maintain traction while your body and chassis stay clear.

Even a fully-specced TRX-4 will get stuck on a trail if you ram it into a rock, and just about anything will get stuck if a big long stick pokes up through the suspension and gets tangled in the body.  There's no real solution for sticks besides avoiding them, or pulling them out when they get stuck - but a taller truck will go over more sticks.

On the other hand, a tall truck has a higher centre of gravity, so it will be more likely to tip over when tackling gradients, so it's always a compromise.

[Juggular]

14 hours ago, Rookie Rabbit said:

where does a CC-02 get stuck but a CR-01 does not?

Aside from tire sizes, the difference is about control.  

1) CR-01 is more like two big axles. The chassis feel secondary. It's just to link the two axles. The suspension has a floating feel to it, so they roll somewhat like a monster truck; like balloon tires on snow if that makes any sense.  I don't have CR-01, but I have Juggernaut 2 that has a 4 link suspension with huge tires.  I think CR-01 is a lot more stable due to better tires. But I would still expect somewhat looser control than CC-02. (for trails, it should be perfectly fine).  

2) CC-02 is more like a conventional truck. Dual axle is still not quite like a racing buggy which you can go around a corner in a very precise manner.  But for trails, it's fine.  CC-02 also has the 4-link suspension, but they use ball collars, instead of ball heads.  I am guessing that collars are a bit more restrictive. That can limit the axle's side-to-side movement somewhat, which also limits the articulation.  Meaning, a bit less articulation but more control.  Also CC-02 has a wade range of gear ratios from about 11:1 down to like 30:1. That allows larger tires.  

For its size, it has quite a bit of articulation too.  

3) The older CC-01 has A-arms on the front, it can be even more precise in terms of steering (not that people are racing with CC01). But it further limits the suspension travel. For articulation, Tamiya sells an aftermarket kit to stretch the rear articulation.  The front wheels move the entire chassis, the rear articulates to support that.  It also has wheel wells on the chassis so there is a limit to how big the tires could go.  And the gear ratio is very limited.  

4) Front and rear A-arms are the most precise, but it limits the suspension angle, so it's used on on-road and buggies.  

For ultimate crawling, CR-01 should do better.  But I'm cheap, so I chose CC-02 and CC-01. Thumb-sized twigs on a trail should be fine with slightly larger tires.  But if you want to go over branches that are the sizes of arms and legs at slower speed, you'd need CR-01.  

 

[Frog Jumper]

14 hours ago, Rookie Rabbit said:

 

What makes you a big fan of the CC-02 chassis, Frog Jumper?

 

 

bc I can do this:

 

[urban warrior]

15 hours ago, Rookie Rabbit said:

And why do you, Urban Warrior, prefer a CC-01 over either?

This is just me. I see it from the engineering perspective. The CC-01 was a way more "integrated" design and to quote Ash from "Alien": "I admire it's purity!". Even though the IFS of the CC-01 was totally wrong for some of the bodies, I still prefer it over the CC-02, and I am sure the latter is not necessarily better out of the box. It's just a different and more complex design.

15 hours ago, Rookie Rabbit said:

It may be a stupid question, but where does a CC-02 get stuck but a CR-01 does not?

Apart from the answers before I would like to point out: "Size does matter!" In this case 2.2" quite wide (and soft) tires versus 1.9" quite narrow (and harder) tires ... if you stay with the original Tamiya tires of the kits. The smaller tires will get stuck earlier on obstacles or depressions where the larger tires will be able to cross.

15 hours ago, Rookie Rabbit said:

... but have no desire for any off road car body, which makes my choice really difficult.

As for other brands, I'll check them out for kit offerings - thanks.

Basically, I wonder whether the CR-01 offers more value for its increased price. To be perfectly honest, though, I may wait for a better deal on either Unimog.

Well, we all got our demons and desires, mine are wheels and tires.

At least the CR-01 offers ball bearings all around, even in the "cantilever-arms". But yes, it's quite pricey.

[Rookie Rabbit]

Thank you, @Mad Ax, @Juggular, @Frog Jumper, @urban warrior!

All else being equal, the CR-01's stock tyres should give me 17,5 mm more ground clearance over the CC-02's.  The tradeoff between axle flexibility and control is very interesting, with the CC-02's ability demonstrated in the video being impressive (although I am more thinking of the scenery in the background as my car's "playground"). I love the "purity argument", it's the very thing that keeps me away from 4WD buggies.

Talking of driving around obstacles, is there a difference in manoeuvrability between the two chassis on similar tyres (without using a second servo on the CR-01 for reasons of elegant simplicity)?

Unfortunately, I found out the CR-01's wheelbase does not fit the Unimog body well. Currently, I am leaning (I am cheap as well) towards a CC-02 with larger wheels and tyres. This being said, I now found a Rock Socker for 40€ less, so timing may be everything.

Best,
Rookie Rabbit

[sosidge]

If you are looking at a scale crawler (and from what you have been describing, you are), then you are better off with a non-Tamiya vehicle. Mad Ax gave a good list of starting points.

The CC-02 is "OK" but is quite a long way the rest of the crawler market. You get better bodies, better performance, and a wider range of upgrades if you go away from Tamiya. The CC-02 is smaller than the norm, so by getting a "normal" 1/10 scale crawler you immediately get bigger tyres and ground clearance.

If you like Unimog 425s, Cross RC make a cracking version (which I have) - https://greensmodels.co.uk/products/cross-rc-nt-4-emo-rtr?srsltid=AfmBOopjmgEMDvLuXndlzWKsfPE47c6BTSeTpaHj08bq1Rv04BClOL8f

[JimBear]

I asked a similar question a while ago (I ended up with a CR-01 and save the plasic drive shafts, I am happy with it):

In hindsight, given the hilarious amounts of money I've spent on this project, I should've bought the Gmade BOM that I wanted all along. For scale, a CC-02 isn't a bad thing to get if you want to keep it Tamiya, have a look at this:

 

[Juggular]

8 hours ago, sosidge said:

If you are looking at a scale crawler (and from what you have been describing, you are), then you are better off with a non-Tamiya vehicle.

Yes, that's a thought.  The only non-Tamiya I had was a Kyosho's monster truck.  But TRX4 is supposed to be a good trail rig (I don't have it, but locking and unlocking the diff on the fly is a plus for me). And there are SCX10, Gmade BOM (below) and other crawlers too.  Unless you insist on Tamiya (like I do), those are worth a peek.  

 

[Rookie Rabbit]

Thank you @sosidge, @JimBear, @Juggular!

There really are interesting offers (what a stunning Unimog, for example!) by companies which are not Tamiya. It may take some time, either waiting for a great Tamiya offer or getting a kit from one of the companies you mentioned.

I'll report back and like to thank all of you for now!

Best,
Rookie Rabbit