Why M Chassis is so weird?

[skom25]

Hi,

I am not an expert in Tamiya M Chassis, I only checked some builds and marketing images.

I wonder, why chassis design is so weird? It is like huge block/ frame on the center, not standard chassis. M-08 looks quite traditional, but I think all models below are quite strange.

Is this just another strange approach of Tamiya to designing cars or I missed something?

[CMshooter]

Strange is just what Tamiya does.  Their normal standard of using injection molded parts means they have to be designed 3 dimensionally.

[Juggular]

When MB01 came out, the Tamiya engineer said, "it's to make use of good looking shells."  

M chassis are designed to allow us to drive shells. The chassis are secondary in some sense.  I think he also said something about "going back to the original mindset of M01 and M02."   I got the sense that to Tamiya, M-chassis are like magic that puts life into inanimate display models; not to race, not to be serious. Just to enjoy the pretty shells as if they are the real things.  So maybe M-chassis mean "Miniature" or "Model" that "Moves."  

 

[Crucial]

54 minutes ago, skom25 said:

 why chassis design is so weird?

They had no ones homework to copy back then (ABC gambado), + parts bin engineering (is there ANY tamiya car that has 100% unique parts?)

Plus as said, tamiya wouldn't be tamiya without extraneous screw bosses.

[Honza]

14 hours ago, skom25 said:

I wonder, why chassis design is so weird? It is like huge block/ frame on the center, not standard chassis. M-08 looks quite traditional, but I think all models below are quite strange.

It was just design philosophy starting around 2000. TL-01, WT-01 WR-01/2, M-03/4... This design consists of fewer large molds that are easier to produce, which is great for entry level chassis. M-05 was a bit more complex variant of this design, M-06 returned to more standard bathtub design, which continued with subsequent chassis.. so M-chassis aren't weird, it was just that the more known Tamiya M-chassis came from the "backbone chassis" era.

MF-01 is the only current M-chassis that follows this design for a simple reason, it's just TL-01 and M-05 mashed together, with minimum new parts - those again being relatively simple chassis molds.

[Kowalski86]

Originally M-Chassis were designed to be more "scale", they had to be FWD or RWD, suitable for three wheelbases, and cheap to produce. That's a lot of demands, and unlike 2wd buggies there was nothing to study at the time. The "brick" design was just a common design Tamiya used at the time.

Around the time of the M03 people started to race them, so we got the more sporty yet more complicated M05 and M06. So not only did they need to fulfill the demands of previous M chassis, but they had to be easier to hop-up too, thus they became more complicated and more screws. The M05 was basically a better balanced M03, while the M06 was more or less a 2wd Buggy but with a lot of extra bracing.

The TT-01 (and 02 by extension) on the other hand, are essentially cheap, basic interpretations of the Team Associated TC4 (erm, TC3, whatever).

 

[qatmix]

The TT01 was released a year before the Associated TC4.

 

it was more like a basic version of the TB01 / TB Evo

[alvinlwh]

If you are after a MTC and find Tamiya's offerings too "weird", here are other options to look at.

1. 3Racing M4
2. 3Racing MG Evo
3. 3Racing Cero FWD
4. 3Racing Cero Sport M210/225
5. Xpress Arrow AM1/S
6. Xpress Execute XM1S
7. Xpress Execute FM1S
8. Xpress Xpresso M/K1
9. MST RMX M S Pro RWD
10. MST TCR-M
11. ABC Hobby Gambado RR

They are all kits so you need not worry about RTR.

[Pylon80]

54 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

If you are after a MTC and find Tamiya's offerings too "weird", here are other options to look at.

1. 3Racing M4
2. 3Racing MG Evo
3. 3Racing Cero FWD
4. 3Racing Cero Sport M210/225
5. Xpress Arrow AM1/S
6. Xpress Execute XM1S
7. Xpress Execute FM1S
8. Xpress Xpresso M/K1
9. MST RMX M S Pro RWD
10. MST TCR-M
11. ABC Hobby Gambado RR

They are all kits so you need not worry about RTR.

Alvin would you say that these companies tend to keep chassis in production longer than Tamiya or less long or just about the same? Never tried one of these. I'm very intrigued by the TCR-M.

[alvinlwh]

5 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

Alvin would you say that these companies tend to keep chassis in production longer than Tamiya or less long or just about the same? Never tried one of these. I'm very intrigued by the TCR-M.

Honestly, I don't know. I only started RCing 4 years ago. 

[Mad Ax]

I think the main point has already been covered - when the first M-chassis came along, the flat-bottomed touring chassis was still not really a thing.  The TA-01/02 was mostly there but it still had some way to evolve.  Plus I suspect the smaller size of the chassis made for packaging problems (the original M-01 is a masterpiece in compact packaging) so after the gearbox, motor mount, steering and suspension was handled, there wasn't really much space left for a flat-bottomed tub.

Of course as soon as the M-01 was out people started racing it, so it evolved into the M-03, carrying over the same design cues but making for an overall better car.  Still, if you look at how an M-03's suspension, gearbox, steering and motor mount is arranged, there's no space left for a chassis tub.

By this point the backbone (or brick) chassis was established, and the TL-01 came along.  It might not have made for a great competition racer (the flat-bottomed touring car was the way to go) but it's worth noting that a TL-01 has previously won the stock touring class in the Iconic Cup, competing against early TA chassis and the all-conquering (in its class) TT-01.

M-chassis racing was also by this time well-established, and because nobody else was making a serious competitor to the Tamiya range, M-chassis racing became almost exclusively Tamiya.  In fact until recently I'd never heard of an M-chassis class that allowed anything other than Tamiya.  So there really was no reason to evolve away from the brick - it's robust, great fun to drive, works well in stock trim and has plenty of hop-up options.  Unlike a proper touring car, it's easy for a novice to drive and set up, it's cheap racing, they look fab (so much better than jellymould touring cars) and is a staple class in pretty much every club I've been to.  When it was time for Tamiya to design the M-05, there was still no serious competitor and therefore no reason to change the formula.

Only in recent years has the MTC thing happened - and it seems to have exploded.  Quite a few clubs are now running an MTC class - but really, it's just miniature touring.  That's what MTC means.  The cars are built like touring cars, look like touring cars and drive like touring cars, they're just smaller.  Tamiya maybe thought they could compete with the M-07 concept, but it doesn't really meet the MTC formula.

This leads neatly to @Pylon80's question about chassis longevity: in truth, it's probably too soon to tell how long the non-Tamiya chassis will be around.  3Racing, Xpress, MST and ABC Hobby have all been around for a while (ABC Hobby were making gorgeous M-chassis bodies right back in the early days) but since they're built more for racing, they're likely to get regular updates and go out of spec quickly.  That may mean parts become harder to get.  Also I'm not sure how many of them are direct competitors to the Tamiya cars - if you want something to race on carpet or a proper tarmac racetrack then check what your local club recommends, but for a basher I'd definitely stick with Tamiya.  The M-03 was discontinued a long time ago but only recently have chassis halves become thin on the ground.  I think the M-05 is now technically discontinued but I expect it will be a while before chassis parts disappear, and the MB-01 should have parts support for a while yet.

That's my take, anyway.  My history may be slightly off, I didn't check the exact release dates of what I mentioned above, but I think broadly this explains how the M-chassis cars evolved the way they did.

[Raman36]

M Chassis is also about the "fun" factor.  The quirk / weird is part of the fun.  The design of the chassis was seldom an issue until you start competing with them. Initially it was accepted that's just how they are and drive it as it is.  Eventually this lead to an evolution... and let me just say, majority of M03 fans cried murder most foul when the M05 was released.  On the other end there was those who complained why it didn't look like a proper TC with low CG and adjustable suspension.  A few years later Tamiya did just that with the M07 concept and the M05 fans lost their minds, stating Tamiya had gone too far, it lost its character and charm. 

Clearly Tamiya could build an M chassis in the TA/TB quality or even a TRF m chassis (TA05 M-Four). Who would be the audience?  

ABC Hobby, T.O.P., 3Racing, Xpress all had or continue to have their version of an M Chassis.  But they do not have the sales to match Tamiyas.. because it is the original.  For competition, M chassis still remains one of the most popular classes world wide.  

I am presently working on launching M chassis racing at my local track. To make entry attractive, Im allowing for the 3Racing MG and the Xpress FM1S by keeping gearing controlled.  I was tempted to exclude the FM1S as it is very close to a touring car.  The Cero Mini is being kept off as its even goes further and has double wishbone suspension.