Anyone still use cool old tech AM and FM Transmitters?

[Mechanic AH]

I have some cool old AM and FM transmitters and thought of trying them out (Adspec, KO, JR, Futaba, Sanwa) but is it a bad idea? I do have one old Kyosho TF2 with the original Futaba FM installed and so far that hasn't had any issues, luckily. I have an itch to use the Adspecs but they're AM—anyone still using those? Or anyone still use AM transmitters and is that pushing it?

[Andreas W]

I have a Sanwa wheel radio I bought new in the early 90s  (but you got them already in the 80s) that I use together with my Nikko Dictator. I have used it a lot for this and my Kyosho Burns and it had long range and the only thing that used to go wrong was that the RX batteries in the Burns gave up.

 

After I returned to the hobby I saw that there is a lot more going on in the air than like 20 years earlier. The range is not what it used to be and the car stops when there's no more contact and then it's not that far away. I used to run my cars on a frozen lake during winter and thaen it was looooong away from me without issues. Nowadays like 20m is enough. 

 

I now mostly run near railway facilities and the entry at power plants and to no surprice the old radiogear works not that good. I only run it within the small Racing by Post format, so the car is no longer away than 10 m and for that it's good. I have tried on the nearby school and it was no better there. 

 

So the conclusion is to try out carefully and maybe with a less precious model. As said I run the Dictator at small range.  I would not trust it to my Burns though (and it needs more space/range anyway).

[Pablo68]

I have a stack of old radio gear as a lot of the cars I'd buy were 2nd hand and in need of restoring to running condition.
I don't use any of it though, its out with the old electrics (sometimes not the motor) and in with the new stuff.

That also enables me to use just a couple of Tx's for my whole fleet.

[ThunderDragonCy]

It's worth a try in a contained space. When I got back into rc I used my original ACOMS from 1987 and it did work, but now I have a modern 2.4ghz set the big advantage is all the fine tuning of throttle and steering you can do. With AM you get what you get. That said, I love the feel of those proper old school sticks. 

[Saito2]

I do almost exclusively. I don't know if I'd trust my judgement as I'm one of those "fools" who still uses brushed motors, nimh packs and even the occasional mechanical speed controller. I'll echo what others have said about range. I run in the small confines of my backyard and wide open baseball fields where there's nothing to hit. The stuff that was bad was pretty much bad from the get-go. Only once did I have an old Aristocraft Challenger 250 stick radio that initially behaved nicely but then suddenly went wonky in the back yard.

[Mouc-RC]

Hi,

Recently I re-built an old TL-01 with its OG MSC and a brand new Futaba 2DR, just for fun, nostalgia, whatever... Although it was nice to re-discover the MSC & his latency, I really disliked the old radio feeling. And especially the range: maximum 30 meters, and then you're forced to lift your arms & the transmitter in the air to regain control over the car. As said before, the complete radio system was "new old stock", with original servos & receiver, so I thought it was worth a try.
Finally sold the complete set.
Maybe with FM High-End radios of the era, it could have been better...?

[markbt73]

I have a couple of cars that still use AM receivers, mainly the ones that still have mechanical speed controls, just to get the full old-school experience. They all use the same Futaba Attack transmitter (the old beige one from the 80s). My Cox Bandido (Kyosho Pegasus variant) also still has its original Cox/Sanwa Cadet 2-stick radio, and my Nikko/Radio Shack monster truck still has its original radio as well. They still work, so I still use them. But I watch them like a hawk.

Everything else shares the same 2 or 3 modern 2.4gHz radios, with Velcro on the receivers to move them from car to car.

[MadAnt]

Some of my collection still uses AM and FM radios. These cars with out of date tech sit on the shelf most of the time though and almost all of my runners have a Futaba 2.4Ghz S-FHSS receiver. I use Futaba 2PL and 3PL transmitters, both have a 10 model memory and I'm starting to run out of room for more, so maybe a radio upgrade is in the future. 

I have more radios than what's in the picture. I need to go through them and sell off what I don't need, but one older radio I'm probably gonna use more is my 75Mhz FM Airtronics MX-3. Using some of the old AM and FM stuff saves me some money, but I do have to remember to take the batteries out when they are stored away, because now I have a few that need some cleaning from battery corrosion.

[urban warrior]

As I already mentioned in other threads, I heartly welcomed every progress in RC technology in the past. So I was really glad to be able to get rid of things like MSCs and crystals (I bet everyone can recall the hassle getting an unoccupied frequency when driving with a bunch of other modellers and the box full of crystal pairs you have to had). And with the evolution from 40MHz Synthesizer Transmitters to 2.4GHz Transmitters it seemed to have come to a good end for me (You're serious? "Firmware Upgrades" for Tx/Rx equipment?). I still have two extensive sets of Tx/Rx (Graupner XS6 Synth and Multiplex Profi Car 403), but I haven't used them for more than a decade now. With my last acquisition of used cars I also got some old radio equipment (27MHz). I guess I won't use it. For the old radios you need eight batteries, modern 2.4GHz technology only uses four (if you're not running them on LiPo packs as substitution). The Multiplex Profi Car 403 has a slowly fading display due to its age and I don't know how to get that fixed. So in the long term I will not use any old stuff anymore. And the new stuff has so many advantages (if one doesn't mind the firmware upgrades on Noble radios).

One funny occurence I recall was, when me and some of my buddies were "playing" with our cars at my home in the early 2000s. When a woman came with her car and trying to open her garage door by remote without any success. As it turned out we were blocking her frequency inadvertently with our 40MHz synthesizer radios. Something similar happened when we were running some (palmsize) small rc cars with cheap 27MHz radios in my flat and blocked the communication between my wireless mouse and computer. And remembering when I spoiled the fun of two little boys on the other side of the road with their cheap "Radio-Shack-Style" car when I switched on the 40MHz radio of my Clod Buster, resulting in their car freezing completely in its actions. 2.4GHz is so much safer.

Maybe this is a "German thing". 27MHz is a frequency that was used by many appliances up to CB in the past. And I guess it was quite similar with 40MHz. There is/was also 35MHz which was "reserved" for RC aircraft use.

[njmlondon]

8 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

It's worth a try in a contained space. When I got back into rc I used my original ACOMS from 1987 and it did work, but now I have a modern 2.4ghz set the big advantage is all the fine tuning of throttle and steering you can do. With AM you get what you get. That said, I love the feel of those proper old school sticks. 

 I do too. The new stuff is just so light and plasticcy. Given the huge surge in vintage racing etc and all of the Kyosho and Team Associated re-re's to go with the Tamiya's that have been with us for ages, I do think someone like Futaba would do very well with a reasonably simple stick radio built with a bit of weight to it and nice spring loaded sticks but with 2.4 electrics. 

[ThunderDragonCy]

2 hours ago, njmlondon said:

 I do too. The new stuff is just so light and plasticcy. Given the huge surge in vintage racing etc and all of the Kyosho and Team Associated re-re's to go with the Tamiya's that have been with us for ages, I do think someone like Futaba would do very well with a reasonably simple stick radio built with a bit of weight to it and nice spring loaded sticks but with 2.4 electrics. 

ALL. OF. THIS.

[magnumb]

Favorite vintage combo has to be a Ko-Propo EX-5 transmitter, Novak Rooster ESC and Green Machine hand wound motor. She sings down the street with that combo

[GToddC5]

I do! I have at least 50 AM / FM radio sets from 1977 through 2009. Half of them are Tamiya brand and the other half a variety of Futaba, ACOMS, MRC, Aristo-Craft/Hitec, Airtronics, KO Propo.

Vintage radio sets are a large part of the hobby for me, and part of the soul of the model I choose to run them in.

I use them in confined / safe areas like others here.

[rich_f]

I prefer the old stuff - the ones with the chrome plating are my favourites. I raced in a few iconic cup rounds a few years ago and used one of my acoms 27MHz sets. Same in a local club I raced at for a while. Needless to say I was the only one not using 2.4GHz - it meant I didn't need to check what crystal I was using. Never had any major problems with range or interference. 

I did try looking for a decent looking set of sticks in 2.4 (can't stand wheel sets) but nothing looked at nice as the old stuff so I got an old acoms transmitter and swapped it's internals for those inside a cheap 2.4 wheel set. Seems to work just fine but I've only used it at home in the garden. 

[Juggular]

3 hours ago, GToddC5 said:

I do! I have at least 50 AM / FM radio sets from 1977 through 2009.

I thought I had a lot. But I have to admit defeat to 50!  

I still have these.  My vintage Fox uses one of those Tamiya radios with red flags. (Replacing the receiver in the Fox isn't a 5 minute job.)  

I've installed JST plugs on many of these so I could use an 11.1v LiPo battery instead of 8AA batteries.  The LiPo is always ready to go, unlike moldy AA batteries in the drawer.  

But I've mostly switched to digital 7-8 years ago.  All new kits get the digital treatment.  

Because of these. 

I paid $4.75 for each receiver.  

I used to buy a new radio for a new kit. But I couldn't afford $50 for a set of AM/FM radio for each new kit.  With digital, $4.75 was all I needed, since a transmitter can be bound to 10 receivers or more.  And a cheap $40 radio like Flysky GT3C has all the basic functions + fancy features like Expo, Dual Rate and End Point Adjustment (fancy by the 1990s standard).   

I always wanted a way to reduce steering as I squeeze the throttle.  I prefer not to roll my Wild Willy 1 on its side.  Channel mixing can be done with a better radio like Flysky G7P (still only $80).  

So, even though I still have old radios installed on few chassis, I think they'll go digital one by one. (I love every chassis on 1986 catalogue. But somehow I'm not nostalgic about the radios of the era. For me, it's whatever can get them rolling for the least cost.)

 

[Mechanic AH]

Thanks for the responses. I appreciate old transmitters because they seem to have interesting character visually and physically, and looks good with older cars. Still debating if top of the line transmitters are worth it for casual use—I do want a new stick transmitter and curious about the Sanwa EXZES ZZ or Futaba 7XC but they're both a lot of money. Or for half the price the Futaba 4GRS but might regret the quality/feel. I wish Tamiya would come out with a new Adspec 2.4ghz.

[Gratuit]

Every time I walk in the fields near my parent's house, I remember that in the 90's I had to run after my Monster Beetle for 1 km because its MSC stayed on full throttle after a loss of signal of my 27MHz Futuaba Attack. Now I can drive the car so far I can barely see it. So even if I like the vintage look of those transmitters, I prefer to use 2.4GHz stuff  

[Wooders28]

I used a Futaba Attack R until old electronics do what old electronics do, and failed. At the end of a straight, stopping the car dead, damaging the car that hit me, and mine....😔

Corerc /Tamco /Etronix (think Etronix have a new 4ch out?) had a fairly cheap (£50) radio that did everything I wanted, but just suddenly stopped (rumours of a factory fire ?) and nothing has really stepped into the void. (Sanwa just released one right enough) 

 

16 hours ago, urban warrior said:

Maybe this is a "German thing". 27MHz is a frequency that was used by many appliances up to CB in the past. And I guess it was quite similar with 40MHz. There is/was also 35MHz which was "reserved" for RC aircraft use.

Was the same in the UK, 75MHz was reserved for Military use only, and illegal use could see you heavily fined or prison (plus, the military wasn't the kind of people you wanted to upset...😬, so any of the 75mhz radio gear that came over the pond in eBay purchases got striped of their useful parts, and he rest binned 😔) 

15 hours ago, njmlondon said:

The new stuff is just so light and plasticcy.

100%!! 

I've the Sanwa Exzes ZZ (mate has the Futaba 4GRS and it's much the same), and although a nice feel, it's still light, I think mainly as I've a lipo battery, and not 8 x AA's in the back of it.

Although, after a full day's racing (the market they're aimed at), its alot easier on the arms...🤷‍♂️

 

9 hours ago, rich_f said:

I got an old acoms transmitter and swapped it's internals for those inside a cheap 2.4 wheel set.

Ohh, Don't suppose you can do a build thread? 

 

3 hours ago, Mechanic AH said:

I do want a new stick transmitter and curious about the Sanwa EXZES ZZ

A fantastic radio, will do more things than I thought possible, need or use, the manual , and it is all in English......😳

(I do want to try the adjustable braking vs steering angle feature, the more steering the less brakes, presumably to stop the rear end of a 2wd stepping out)

 

Unfortunately, Sanwa has changed the protocol now with their new release, so getting old receivers is going to get harder.....

3 hours ago, Mechanic AH said:

half the price the Futaba 4GRS but might regret the quality/feel.

They feel okay (as modern radios go..) but they're still quite light. I do believe the lack of a 8 x AA batteries is a main reason tbh.

[urban warrior]

16 hours ago, njmlondon said:

The new stuff is just so light and plasticcy.

I guess at some point that's a question of personal preference. There are a lot of people complaining about the weight of the Noble series due to the "heavy power bank" at the bottom. To be honest, electronics are substantially lighter today even if they're sporting more functions. And I think putting in some useless "fake weights" won't be an option. I for myself bringing 230 pounds on the scale, if my radio has 100g, 200g more or less doesn't play any role for me.

For the "plasticcy" ... well ... it's all about money. If people want to get some functions but want so save some bucks, well then it will be lightweight. I never had any of the more expensive radios like KoPropo, Futaba or Sanwa in my hands. I don't know if they feel more ... (how to say "wertig" in English?) ... elaborate(?).

[pengoo]

Do use the old 27am units in all the cars a lot being vintage ..but with few more up to date cars to build and easy of running i may start to fit the new digi set ups...

 

But wanted to know how they work ..I mean .Can you  purchase extra reciver to match thee one hand set rather than buy a full set up for each car .Also how do you changed signal ..(crsytal ) do they have them or a program button ...Like to stick with a stick control but all i see is wheel and trgger

.That's one reason  why I stuck with the old just velcro in and swap from car to car. but can still fit a reciever box in and esc.

[Juggular]

1 hour ago, pengoo said:

But wanted to know how they work ..I mean .Can you  purchase extra reciver to match thee one hand set rather than buy a full set up for each car .Also how do you changed signal ..(crsytal ) do they have them or a program button ...Like to stick with a stick control but all i see is wheel and trgger

Those were stuff I was curious about before I got my digital radio set.  

Yes, you can purchase an extra receiver made for that specific radio.  Some Futaba receiver cost 10 times as much (like $50).  That prevented me from going with a $300 radio set.  Each radio has a "memory" of 10 cars, 20 cars or 30 cars.  Whatever the manufacturer decides, but usually 10 to 20.  

What 2.4Ghz radios do instead of frequency is code-talk (I'm paraphrasing).  There aren't different frequencies like AM system.  It's one frequency: 2.4Ghz. But you can have thousands of unique bands within it by using a specific code.  

Basically the radio would "bind" to a receiver.  When they bind, they give each other a passcode.  For example, if the code is "$3xy," the receiver does not follow any other radio's order except for the order that starts with "$3xy."  There are 96 characters and symbols in alphabet keyboards, so 4 letters and characters mean = 95million to 1 chance that other radios would come up with the same exact code. (I don't know how many characters codes are. For the purpose of explaining the general principle, such details do not matter). 

That receiver will work with that code until you bind again, or bind to another radio of the same make.  (Each brand also uses different systems, so it's just safer to stick with receivers specifically made for that radio.)  

There is a "Bind" bottom on the transmitter, and a "bind" socket on the receiver.  They give you a "bind plug" which just connects the left and right contacts together with one wire.  When plugged in, it's in "forget the password from before, remember what's given to you now" mode.  

Finally, when you hold the bind button on the transmitter and turn on the power, the transmitter comes up with a random password.  It "remembers" that code for that receiver.  Any trim you do, servo reversing, end point adjustment, etc, the transmitter remembers (even if you don't have a battery in it for years.)  Initially, most transmitters just have "M01" (as in Model 1), "M02,"... "M10." etc.  But you can give them names.   "DT4" for DT-04 chassis, "WW2" for Wild Willy 2, or "Sam" for your child's name if he uses your transmitter.  (Flysky gives you only 3 characters to play with. I really wish they gave us 4 characters, so I can have DT3W for my white DT-03, and DT3G for my green DT-03).  

If you get another car, just buy a new receiver. Bind it and set it up for that car and name it.  That is how my fleet went from a dozen to over 40.  (even a $5 receiver would cost $140 if you want to equip 28 chassis. $25 receiver doesn't sound too expensive, but 28 cars would add up to $700.)  

Above is Flysky i6x. The left stick isn't spring-loaded.  It stays where you put it, since it's designed for helicopters and planes.  For cars, coming back down to neutral without going into reverse can be tricky.  I bought it for a gyrocopter (there is no reverse in gyrocopters). I haven't played with it much.  Receivers are expensive (like $15).  It's got all kinds of bells and whistles, so there is a bit of a learning curve.  

I like sticks too (even though thumb control is slower than index).  I think there is a market for sticks, if they can just re-package GT3C in a stick transmitter.  (They can even repurpose i6 transmitter case.) 

I wouldn't mind something like this:

It's not a totally radical design. Futaba used to have something similar, in a far less agronomical shape. 

 

[1132 Design]

The last time I used AM or FM transmitters was in the early 2000s.  The best FM radio I had was a KO Propo that had a 10 model memory, individual rates and epa for each channel direction, and channel mixing--a feature I barely use even flying model aircraft.  When I finally switched to 2.4GHz, I went with a KO Propo again as they had the lowest latency out of all the brands at around the same time period, now it seems that even second tier systems have finally caught up to those speeds so the radio playing field has mostly been levelled.  The only saving grace is that with a legacy radio brand, your transmitter can be sent back in for service instead of shelling out another $300+ for another,  when comparing to the "free/fly" brands.

Regarding old equipment, the only real danger  really loss of signal, particularly with 30+ year old electronics; some of these were prone to metallic whiskering that could short out components.  There's not really much to be done about it, and the best case scenario is it simply stops working, but worst case scenario is you have no failsafe programmed on your speedrun car and you take out other people in the vicinity.  I've been hit at 30 mph by nitro car while marshalling for a race and I seriously thought I had broken my leg--luckily it was just purple for 2-3 weeks.

[Mechanic AH]

18 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

 

I've the Sanwa Exzes ZZ (mate has the Futaba 4GRS and it's much the same), and although a nice feel, it's still light, I think mainly as I've a lipo battery, and not 8 x AA's in the back of it.

Although, after a full day's racing (the market they're aimed at), its alot easier on the arms...🤷‍♂️

 

Ohh, Don't suppose you can do a build thread? 

 

A fantastic radio, will do more things than I thought possible, need or use, the manual , and it is all in English......😳

(I do want to try the adjustable braking vs steering angle feature, the more steering the less brakes, presumably to stop the rear end of a 2wd stepping out)

 

Unfortunately, Sanwa has changed the protocol now with their new release, so getting old receivers is going to get harder.....

They feel okay (as modern radios go..) but they're still quite light. I do believe the lack of a 8 x AA batteries is a main reason tbh.

 

 

I always felt Sanwa/Airtronics' technical writing and interface is not as user-friendly as Futaba's. KO is probably in between. And true, the 8x batteries adds heft and feel, I pulled out my old KO Mars FM and daily KO EX 2.4 and the newer one feels better in terms of quality but once the batteries are in, the old one feels like quality like a tank. You can tell how product design has changed after decades...

 

[CMshooter]

I still have a couple old Futaba Magnum sport and 2 stick radios set up in a couple of the old models.  The range seems to have been reduced a bit over time.  I have been in the same house for 25 years, and they used to have enough range to run up the road passed neighbors driveways in any direction.  Now a couple of them only reach 60 yards or so.  I am an electronic tech, so I should be able to figure it out if I had some equipment at the house, I just don't like diving deep into stuff anymore.

[JimBear]

@Juggular I agree on the economics - which is why I'll never be up there with 40 cars. At 15-20 euros a pop for the receiver, it's not going to happen. Even five fully equipped cars would be a serious budget post to maintain in running condition (especially with a Junior in the house).

Now, more on-topic, I have an old Acoms (FM, 27 mhz) that came with a truck, and I know it's working fine, but I'll never use it. Unless I get desperate, for some reason. For some odd reason, I enjoy grappling with a terminal in Linux, but can't abide old clunky MSCs and FM radios.