NiMh packs availibility

[skom25]

Hi,

I wonder for how long NiMh packs will be available on market.

Any predictions?

I know that despite LiPo is now standard, NiMh packs are still available for many years. I am just not sure, if and when it will change.

[KILLorBE]

Hard (Impossible) to say, personally I think they will be available for quite some time, I mean, you can still get NiCd batteries, not to mention non-rechargeable (Alkaline) and lead-acid batteries, apparently they all have a reason to still exist.

The way the world is right now it could end in minutes, but my guess is that it'll take at least 10 years for NiMH to slowly disappear, OTOH technology seems to evolve exponentially and it's impossible to tell what the future may bring.

Sorry for the possibly disappointing answer.

[skom25]

5 hours ago, KILLorBE said:

Hard (Impossible) to say, personally I think they will be available for quite some time, I mean, you can still get NiCd batteries, not to mention non-rechargeable (Alkaline) and lead-acid batteries, apparently they all have a reason to still exist.

The way the world is right now it could end in minutes, but my guess is that it'll take at least 10 years for NiMH to slowly disappear, OTOH technology seems to evolve exponentially and it's impossible to tell what the future may bring.

Sorry for the possibly disappointing answer.

I do not expect anything much more precise. Thank you!

[Twinfan]

I can't see any reason why they would go at the moment, so my answer is they won't.

LiPO is not standard. Very common, yes, but I think several RC companies produce models set up for NiMH especially if aimed at kids.

[CMshooter]

The popularity of lipo has lowered the price on nimh as far as I can see.  These packs have never been this cheap.  I still think the 3300 packs from traxxas are great for those of us not running crazy motors.  

[MadAnt]

Who remembers $120 Nimh race packs with only a 2000Mah capacity? 🤣

Times have changed, I buy LiPo batteries now because they last longer and the prices have gotten better.

[Wooders28]

As long as people are buying them, they'll keep selling them!! 🤷‍♂️

 

I thought I was a little late joining the lipo party getting on 15yrs ago, and the only thing I now own running anything other than lithium ,is a garage alarm (even the AA batteries in my clocks are long life lithium, but the D type are still way too expensive..) I'd have thought the selection would have decreased somewhat by now. 

[Pylon80]

14 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

As long as people are buying them, they'll keep selling them!! 🤷‍♂️

Hehe... There's less and less demand which probably explains why a 6 cell RC car battery is now more expensive than a 2S shorty pack.

It's probably a minuscule market made up of 1) smaller scale entry level RTR's - I saw someone with a cute 1/14 truck on my street and it was running well, if not for very long, on an NiMh pack as well as 2) a few vintage enthusiasts who don't really need much more than what NiMh offers and like the vintage vibe.

But anything 1/10 scale high performance, anything bigger than 1/10 scale and anything RC that flies, would be lost without LiPo's.

[SlideWRX]

NiMH won't ever go out due to Lipo.  Lipo has been in the market 15 years, and rc OEMs are still selling vehicles with NiMH bateries.  NiMH is used in other places than RC.  There are several other battery technologies under development to address the cost and instability of Lipo batteries. Lithium is currently cheap, but the price seems to fluctuate quite a lot. Heck, technically Lipo itself will likely disappear due to different variations of Lithium batteries like LiHV.  NiCd died because it was using toxic metals and it was phased out for most countries.

[alvinlwh]

19 hours ago, SlideWRX said:

Heck, technically Lipo itself will likely disappear due to different variations of Lithium batteries like LiHV. 

Actually this is true, some places don't even use lipo anymore. Recently in HK, I don't even see lipos for sale anymore. They seem to have completely changed over to HV. 

In fact a number of other devices like laptops had switched over to HV. 

 

[Pylon80]

Isn't LiHV exactly the same chemistry as LiPo? They just let you charge them to a higher voltage?

[SlideWRX]

They are very similar but have small (to us) differences:

Quote

Part 3. What are the differences between LiHv and LiPo batteries?

Chemical Composition

LiHv batteries, short for Lithium High Voltage, typically contain more cobalt than LiPo (Lithium Polymer) batteries. This composition contributes to LiHv’s higher energy density and voltage stability.

Voltage Output

LiHv batteries generally offer a higher nominal voltage compared to LiPo batteries. While LiPo batteries typically have a nominal voltage of 3.7 volts per cell, LiHv batteries can have a nominal voltage ranging from 3.8 to 4.35 volts per cell.

Energy Density

Due to their chemical composition and design, LiHv batteries tend to have a higher energy density than LiPo batteries. This means they can store more energy per unit volume or weight, making them suitable for applications where space and weight are critical factors.

Internal Resistance

LiHv batteries typically have lower internal resistance compared to LiPo batteries. This lower resistance allows for faster discharge rates and better performance, especially in high-demand applications like RC vehicles or drones.

Safety Considerations

While both types of batteries pose certain safety risks, LiHv batteries are generally considered safer than LiPo batteries due to their higher voltage stability and lower likelihood of swelling or catching fire during use or charging.

Cost

Due to their advanced chemistry and higher performance characteristics, LiHv batteries are often more expensive than LiPo batteries. However, their benefits may justify the higher cost for applications where performance and energy density are crucial.

I think the stability thing is questionable - I found another article mentioning that LiHV is less stable...  Any researchers on here that can dig through to the actual information on these and not just sites regurgitating stuff?

[SlideWRX]

On a side note from digging through battery stuff online, particularly Wikipedia - Can't We All Just Get Along?  Nickel-Lithium battery is possible, with great performance, but looks like no-one is developing it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel–lithium_battery

Going down the battery rabbit hole often leads to the GM EV1 with the NiMH battery it had, and the patent that (in prototypes) doubled the range of the vehicles. Texaco/Chevron bought & buried that patent. Since that time NiMH batteries have doubled or more in capacity due to better manufacturing - I wonder if the patent stuff could have been applied on top of that and double it again?  We will likely never know. 

[alvinlwh]

HV are found in many items these days, like laptop or phones. Are they more stable or not? Not sure, but in these devices, there are built in monitoring devices, etc... 

https://imgur.com/a/sFmxXSD#BKBvsye

4S laptop. 

https://imgur.com/a/jrzr1UZ#txGN5k7

3S laptop

https://imgur.com/a/sHvl7R1#tj86BWg

1S phone (my phone). 

All HV voltage. 

(not sure why the forum is not pulling the images through) 

[ad456]

HV have been standard in our electronic devices for many years. They give better performance over a shorter life time(500 cycles).