Do Re-releases become Vintage?

[gordb]

One of my other great loves is retro gaming. And that community spends a lot of time trying to define "retro": is it anything before 2000? Anything 20 years old? Is it something 2 console generations back?

Well, I was surfing around this morning looking at Tamiya kits, and I realised that many of our re-releases are themselves approaching 20 years old! I keep thinking these came out yesterday, but when I really stopped to think, that 2012 Supershot kit was released 13 years ago! How did that go by so quickly!?!? And it's not alone:

• Hornet 2004
• Frog 2005
• Hotshot 2007
• Rough Rider 2009
• Sand Scorcher 2010
• Bruiser 2012

I remember when the re-releases were first coming out, there was definitely a feeling that these were "lesser" kits: inferior to the "real" vintage releases. I myself certainly think about my collection as the original kits I owned, while my re-releases felt more like runners waiting to be built, or stacks of spare part boxes.

But some of them are pretty hard to find (looking at you Mountain Rider), and the price of others seem not to far from their vintage counterparts (hello Rough Rider). And for those lucky kits that got the full blister treatment, are they really that different to the originals?

I've been watching a youtuber who was building old kits, and had to replaces the decals and tires with modern equivalents because the stuff in the kit was perished. I wonder if we hit a time where the re-releases themselves become desirable, and (heresy warning) even preferable given the rubber, plastsics and decals are have more life in them and less yellowing than some of the crumbling kits from the 80s? 

(FYI, I don't think we're there yet. I just built a 1980 Hilux from the box, and the only things that was dead was the silicone sealant, everything else seems great. But perhaps this has a lot to do with where this kit has lived over the last 40+ years)

Please talk me out of this before my fear of a new Tamiya dark age has me hoarding kits I have no space for.

[Wystan Withers]

Ironically enough just the other day I was looking at the Hot Shot re-re I bought the instant it came out (back in 1985 13-year-old me spent as much time lusting after a Hot Shot as I did Miss June) and was doing the math... won't be too long now before the my re-re is older than the originals were when the re-re came out.

But that said, I think there will reach a tipping point (likely fairly soon) when everything worth re-releasing has been done, the ones which are still expensive will have been cloned (looking at you Bruiser/Mountaineer) and eventually everyone who wanted 30-40-year-old tech will have had the opportunity to own it. 

[Saito2]

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[MadAnt]

The re-re's may not be vintage yet, but I do believe their appeal is more than nostalgia or newstalgia or whatever. During a time where most RC's seem to follow the same formula Tamiya keeps returning to a time when RC cars had character.

[Snappy1]

My first re re is the 2005 Dyna Storm……. Nearly vintage lol

[Gebbly]

For me "vintage" just means of a certain age. That certain age depends on the item being discussed. Personally 20 years old feels about right to call a Tamiya kit vintage.

There will probably always be some who desire original versions and some who would just like to own any version of something that was considered iconic, like owning any version of a Hotshot. In this hobby one of the problems is how things are stored. A kit may be absolutely original but it could have been stored in an environment which led to all the plastics becoming too brittle. In which case it would be fine for someone who wants to keep a NIB original in its box but you could never build and run it.

I expect as long as there are customers for a particular kit Tamiya will keep making re-releases.

I wouldnt mind adding a Boomerang rerelease to my build queue

[Nicadraus]

Everything will become vintage eventually. The advantage of the re-re kits are the materials used and redesigns of the previous models with flaws. Some plastic material of the original vintage are brittle and cracks easily overtime due to age. Most ABS plastic of the re-re are made better and some are reinforced.

[ADRay1000]

49 minutes ago, Nicadraus said:

Everything will become vintage eventually. 

x2.

I think they will (are already) be looked at as two different versions of the same thing. They made Minis for 40 years without major redesigns, but to those who know (care), a 1959 is different than a 1999. 

[urban warrior]

 

 

 

11 hours ago, gordb said:

One of my other great loves is retro gaming. And that community spends a lot of time trying to define "retro": is it anything before 2000? Anything 20 years old? Is it something 2 console generations back?

Well I never played any games with consoles, only on my computer. How do I see "retro"? 🤷🏼‍♂️

While reading all the comments here, I am listening to "We Built This City" by "Starship" (1985) in the radio. I personally like the Re-Res. It gives me a chance to own and build models I missed throughout the decades. And as others already wrote, even the Re-Releases are getting old and vintage with time. And in case of the Bruiser/Mountaineer they improved the drivetrain quite seriously, making it a more reliable runner.

[markbt73]

At this point, I think all of my "real" vintage kits have at least some re-release parts in them - except the one that haven't been re-released, like the Striker. I know there are stalwart (and often very vocal) purists out there who wouldn't dream of fixing up an old car with re-release parts, but I'm certainly not one of them.  And conversely, some of my re-res have been back-dated with vintage parts, like the Hilux wheels and tires on my Bruiser. If it fits, or I can make it fit, I'll use it. We're not talking priceless antiquities here.

As for future collectability of the re-releases, I imagine there will be some, but I don't think there will be much call for them in another 40 years. I can't imagine still chasing after a rolled-over Blackfoot in my 90s, if I make it that far, and I'm not seeing any indication that a younger generation is going to pick up the Tamiya standard and run with it. So my philosophy is "enjoy them now, in whatever way you want." Original or re-release - if building it and running it will make you happy, do it. If you'd rather just keep it in the box, then that's fine too, but don't expect your kids or grandkids to care about them.

[gordb]

5 hours ago, markbt73 said:

As for future collectability of the re-releases, I imagine there will be some, but I don't think there will be much call for them in another 40 years. I can't imagine still chasing after a rolled-over Blackfoot in my 90s, if I make it that far, and I'm not seeing any indication that a younger generation is going to pick up the Tamiya standard and run with it. So my philosophy is "enjoy them now, in whatever way you want." Original or re-release - if building it and running it will make you happy, do it. If you'd rather just keep it in the box, then that's fine too, but don't expect your kids or grandkids to care about them.

Yup - I started typing something similar in the OP, and pulled it because it made the whole thing a little dark. You're obviously right (only one of my kids is into RC, and despite my best efforts, he's all about Traxxas). But dammit if my twilight years are not going to be resplendant with Tamiya! 

[gordb]

8 hours ago, Nicadraus said:

Everything will become vintage eventually. The advantage of the re-re kits are the materials used and redesigns of the previous models with flaws. Some plastic material of the original vintage are brittle and cracks easily overtime due to age. Most ABS plastic of the re-re are made better and some are reinforced.

Do we know that for a fact? In yet-another hobby, I collect the odd action figure. And it's always felt like the "old plastic" was somehow better than the stuff they use now. I'm not sure if that's specific to actions figures (perhaps in some race-to-the-bottom cost cutting), but generally, there seems to be something tougher about the stuff they made back tin the 80s.

Either way, it's 20-odd years newer, so presumably will outlast the old stuff by that virtue alone, but if it's actually materially better, that perhaps make the case even stronger.

[gordb]

18 hours ago, Wystan Withers said:

Ironically enough just the other day I was looking at the Hot Shot re-re I bought the instant it came out (back in 1985 13-year-old me spent as much time lusting after a Hot Shot as I did Miss June) and was doing the math... won't be too long now before the my re-re is older than the originals were when the re-re came out.

But that said, I think there will reach a tipping point (likely fairly soon) when everything worth re-releasing has been done, the ones which are still expensive will have been cloned (looking at you Bruiser/Mountaineer) and eventually everyone who wanted 30-40-year-old tech will have had the opportunity to own it. 

Yes, but honestly I thought we'd hit that point years ago. It's honestly astounding to me we can still buy a new sand scorcher, 15 years after it was re-released.15. Years. I think I've just convinced myself I need to stock pile some more

[gordb]

17 hours ago, Saito2 said:

I've touched on this concept in the past. In 1995 a Tamiya Hotshot was considered a long-discontinued relic from RC's past at that point. My '07 re-release has 18 years of use under its belt and doesn't seem that old to me now. I wish I was 18 years younger though, lol. When we're young time seems slow (imagine how long a 9 mouth school year felt) but things change greatly as we grow up. Now time flies and there doesn't seem to be much change. Time sneaks up on you and I think it will for re-releases as well.

100% this. And I think that was the most shocking thing about it. I remember like it was yesterday the crazy forum excitement (and in some circles panic) when the big re-releases were announced. How can that be so long ago?! This might just be me, but I haven't even gotten around to building all of them yet! I've built (and run into the ground) two Hotshots and a Frog as my daily track cars. But it's hard to believe the SRBs and three-speeds have been sitting in my cupboard for well over a decade. 

[Busdriver]

In this club I believed that the first 150 models were deemed Vintage. All else were either re-res of them or just models!!

[mtbkym01]

2 hours ago, gordb said:

100% this. And I think that was the most shocking thing about it. I remember like it was yesterday the crazy forum excitement (and in some circles panic) when the big re-releases were announced. How can that be so long ago?! This might just be me, but I haven't even gotten around to building all of them yet! I've built (and run into the ground) two Hotshots and a Frog as my daily track cars. But it's hard to believe the SRBs and three-speeds have been sitting in my cupboard for well over a decade. 

I’ve just built a 2014 Fighting Buggy that has been sitting on my shelf since release…..Over 10 year ago (Where did that time go?) 

[Blista]

Will there be adults in 20 years who were raised on the re-releases and will value them over the vintage kits they never had a chance at owning?  They'll pay for re-re-releases but not care for a 959/Celica.

[mtbkym01]

1 hour ago, Blista said:

Will there be adults in 20 years who were raised on the re-releases and will value them over the vintage kits they never had a chance at owning?  They'll pay for re-re-releases but not care for a 959/Celica.

Very good point, and just maybe they will be crying out for a re-re BBX

[Kpowell911]

13 hours ago, Blista said:

Will there be adults in 20 years who were raised on the re-releases and will value them over the vintage kits they never had a chance at owning?  They'll pay for re-re-releases but not care for a 959/Celica.

This is what it is for me. I think I may be younger than most on here, being mid 30’s, but to me Im lusting/paying over for the 90’s touring cars. Ive got no affection towards a Lunchbox, or a Frog, or a Hotshot for example, because my ‘genre’ was the touring cars. An R34 on a TA03F on display in Beatties was the goal for me. It then moved onto the Traxxa T/E Maxx and the HPI Savage. All of these things seem to be going up in value now. Its the same with 1:1 cars, and other toys. I think as someone approaches 40, they’re at a stage where they become financially stable enough to explore some nostalgia. Look how much Pokemon Cards and Escort Cosworths are worth now. Using 1:1 cars as an example, my age grouo are not interested in a Ferrari 250, or an E Type Jag. They dream about a Countach or an F40 etc, which is skyrocketing their values. 

[Marchie]

I would expect a collector to place a premium on original 80's/90's cars, but I know I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for re releases. They make that era of cars, which have a unique appeal, available as runners.

I was only tangentially into RC as a kid, but after buying my son a kit a while ago I've really enjoyed getting into all the old cars and as much as I struggle to drag them around the local track in a competitive fashion I feel no pull at all towards modern cars.

Tangentially, the O.P. mentioned retro gaming - if anyone here feels RC isn't an effective enough money-pit then you should look into retro computers. 

[Wooders28]

Off at a bit of a tangent, but....

The Dark Impact was released in 2006, is still on sale and not been re released, is that one of the longest continuous runs for Tamiya? 🤔

I think tamiya Re re's are the same as the original kits, so yeah, I'd class them as vintage, but had a discussion the other week about the Kyosho Legends series, they look the same, but I don't think there's a part the same (and have slippers etc)..

 

 

[Saito2]

Just now, Wooders28 said:

The Dark Impact was released in 2006, is still on sale and not been re released

Good point. I was thinking along the same lines a couple weeks ago, but with the F350 High Lift. "Newstalgia" I coined it because we consider things like the F350 and DF03 as "newer" Tamiyas when, in fact, they've been kicking around for quite some time (perhaps long enough to be nostalgic about these "new" vehicles).

[Wooders28]

I still class 2.2" wheels are new, with vintage having 2" or less.

The believe the first car shod with 2.2" , was the Yokomo YZ10 in....1991 😬

[mastino]

So, Dyna Storm was released in 1992, decembre. Re release dated 2001. After 24 years, could I consider the re release as a vintage model? 

 

 

 

[gordb]

17 hours ago, mastino said:

So, Dyna Storm was released in 1992, decembre. Re release dated 2001. After 24 years, could I consider the re release as a vintage model? 

Pretty sure we thought of the Sand Scorcher as vintage in 2003, so I don't see why not!