Crawling Rules?

[Cul-Tech]

Certainly where I live RC is not popular at all, and if someone does have one locally it will for sure be nitro. Safe to say I will not be running into any electric Tamiyas at any of my play sites. Let alone EVER be able to enter a rockcrawling competition unless I drive 2000 miles across the big USA.[]

However just because I like to conform to regulations I would like to see some rockcrawling regulations so I could build my trucks to at least meet a certain class. This would help me to gauge my rides against others I see in photos and vids.

Anyone know where I might find some rulebooks on this?

Thanks.

[addict again]

hey cul-tech, Here is a link for some rules that we go by. I recently hooked up with these guys and they build some AMAZING rigs to say the least!!!! http://' target="_blank">http://www.rcjimsplace.com/invision/index.php?showforum=77

They just had a competition last weekend and the turn out was huge. Unfortunately i had to miss due to my lil woman having her b-day...oh well. We do however get together just about every weekend for some good bashing[] . Oh by the way, i bought a pair of your kc style lights and love em!!! great job! Oh yeah my user name there is cstmp8r.

Bill

[mud4fun]

I'm in the process of organising a crawling event in the UK and I'm trying to write some rules and regs. There is no point in having too many classes of vehicles because that requires scrutineeers, lots of time spent checking vehicles out etc plus lots of marshalls to make the event work well. I did trials with the All Wheel Drive Club and others in the UK for about 15 years and many of those rules can still be applied to R/C crawling. However I'm looking at just 3 classes of vehicles based simply on wheelbase and vehicle width:

XC - max 260mm wheelbase x 250mm width

MT - max 350mm wheelbase x 300mm width

Extreme - unlimited

All vehicles will have to be electric because nitros make to much noise and our local council won't sanction an event with this level of noise and certainly not in the reclaimed quarry areas which are now surrounded by nature reserves.

Rules for the actual sections will be easy enough

1) A section will be made up of 10 gates

2) Gates start at 10 and count down to 1

3) Minimum of 5 sections

4) If you touch a gate you get the number of penalty points of that gate

5) If you fail to make it thru a gate you get the number of penalty points of previous gate

6) If you fail to complete all gates within set time you get 10 penalty points

7) Stopping and reversing will be allowed (unlike most 1:1 trials)

8) Center of Vehicles front tyre is required to pass the gate to 'clear' that gate. Whole vehicle does not need to pass the gate - marshalls decision is final.

9) Winner is the entrant that gets the least amount of penalty points after all sections are completed

Something along these lines anyway, rules will be drawn up and fully documented/published before the event so nobody can argue.

Cheers,

Ian

[Cul-Tech]

Thanks Bill and Ian,

Seems to clear it up a little, I have never seen any rules against voltage, or motor types, seems as though I would steer more toward the modified classes.

Bill I watched the vids 1&2 of your last event, that really answered my questions as to what really goes on at a RC crawling event. Those vids were awesome!

Glad you like the KC's

Maybe I could talk to the LHS and see if I could generate interest in this. We have a lot of 1:1 rigs driving around the roads set up for crawling so there must be some local interest.[]

Thanks again,

Mike

[addict again]

Hey Mike, If you have alot of guys into 1:1 scales i am sure that there will be several that will realy dig the smaller scale rigs. From what i understand the guys from orcrc started out as a bunch of 1:1 offroaders that all seemed to enjoy the scale aspect of it. Some of the reasons that i gathered was: If ya break down, no trailers involved,cheaper, somewhat easier to work on,and oh ya TOOOO MUCH FUN!!! ;)Anyways, good luck with getting some people together!!!

Bill

[DJTheo]

Ian, you should put also minimum dimension limits as often smaller vehicles are advantageous in trial competitions (check my site to see why). In Germany official RC trial competitions are very popular, so detailed rules already exist http://www.mtc-hannover.de/files/modell-tr...elwerk-2005.pdf

you can use google to translate them.

Cheers

[mud4fun]

Cheers Theo.

Mind you, the quarry I've found that I'm trying to negotiate the use of at the moment consists of quite medium/large rocks so the terrain itself will govern some things. A smaller vehicle won't do so well on larger rocks as a larger vehicle.

This is why I don't want too many classes or vehicle restrictions because I'll then have to try and set up a different set of sections for each class of vehicle. I was hoping to get away with just 2 sets of sections - one mild one for XC class and stock MT, then much more extreme sections for the modified MT's and the big extreme crawlers. Even that will take most of a day to set up the sections. I may have to limit it to just 5 sections per class? That should still provide enough to give a fair competition?

I will take your advice though and impose minimum sizes. I need to attract as many entrants as possible though to make the event worthwhile and at the moment there aren't that many TC members with crawlers that could make it to this event.

---

Mike, I won't be imposing any restriction on motor type, voltage etc as you would need to scrutineer every vehicle very carefully to make the competition fair. That would take up too much time. Instead The size restrictions will be easy to check as I will make up wooden jigs that the vehicle will be placed in, if it fits then it will be the correct size - if it is too big then it moves up a class.

Also remember that in the UK we haven't had any crawling events to my knowledge? The first few events will only attract small numbers I suspect and I want to encourage more so lifting restrictions on motors and voltage etc will allow people to feel they can get some edge and may make the thing more fun as people play around with different designs.

From my personal experience with thunderfoot I'd say that, unlike touring cars, in a crawler you need the slowest speed possible, more torque than outright revs so a cheap cordless drill motor works as well if not better than many expensive units - especially when used with a reduction box.

If people wanted to stick a low turn motor in then they are welcome, it will be fun to watch it go up in smoke on the first section [][]

Any voltage is fine, the higher voltages will give that vehicle more grunt but it will itself be governed by weight. Bigger battery packs are very heavy and will mean the vehicle will be at a disadvantage in some sections.

It is up to the Clark of the course (COC) ie Me! to make sure that all sections test all parts of a vehicles performance and therefore balance out the individual advantages of any one vehicle.

[DJTheo]

In Germany trial tracks are more technical, i.e. narrow with limited paths and sharp curves through flags (like the real ones) so driving abilities and strategy are en par important to big tires and articulation, here some links for ideas:

http://www.vintagetamiyarc.com/id69.htm

http://www.vintagetamiyarc.com/id51.htm

http://s.putti.bei.t-online.de/treffen06.htm

http://www.mtc-hannover.de/index-indoor_trial.htm

Cheers

[mud4fun]

Yep, that is more like the 1:1 RTV and CCV trials I did in my Land Rover for years here in the UK.

The sort of trials I'm looking at doing are much more extreme, rock crawling as per our US friends. The rocky sections are really only suitable for custom made crawlers, it is unlikely any stock vehicle could navigate them.

We never had rock crawling in the UK because most of the trials I attended were for almost stock vehicles that drove to the event and drove home again afterwards. The terrain was more muddy/rivers/axle twisters.

[jedzuki(2)]

Mud4fun- does rule 5 refer to trucks stopping in between gates? ie clearing gate 5 but stopping before one hub is through gate 4[?]

I am also member of AWDC, but don't trial my Vitara very much![]

[BIG WHEELER]

when and where will this event take place,dont dwell too much on rules and regs lets just get together for some crawling

[mud4fun]

Jedzuki - yes, rule 5 is simply to assign the penalty points of gate 5 if you fail to get as far as a hub thru gate 4. No penaltiy points for stopping or reversing because of the nature of these vehicles. The time limit will stop people from spending forever trying to clear a gate that is just beyond their vehicles ability.

Big Wheeler, the event I'm trying to organise needs rules as I am trying to make it a competition with trophies as prizes. You need at least some simple rules or it wouldn't be fair - especially when you have so many differing types/sizes of vehicles. Details of the event will be posted in the Meetings/Events forum when it has been finalised. I'm still in the process of gaining permission for land use and also sorting out insurance requirements. These things take time!

From previous experience I think you'll find it more enjoyable to have rules and regulations. It not only makes it fair for everybody but makes it much more fun. I don't know about you but I get bored with bashing around because there is no real competitive element. Simply turning up and crawling over the rocks is good but to compete against others and prove your vehicle/driving is better by winning prizes is much better?! [][8D]

There are also lots of members in this club that have monster trucks/crawlers who I'm sure would enjoy pitting their vehicles against others in a proper competition within the confines of simple rules. It will be nice to see which modifications and vehicle configurations work best. This isn't as obvious when people are just bashing about.

[Virus]

will this included a stock class for crawlers M4F as my tlt-1 is still stock till i can work out a few things [:I]i mean totaly stock have run out of cash setting up my 1/18th collection

thanks

Virus

[mud4fun]

lol, there will be no regulations on vehicles other than wheelbase/width to begin with as iit takes too **** long to scrutineer all the vehicles when we'd all much rather be crawling!!! You are more than welcome to run a totally stock TLT in the class that suits its wheelbase/width which will be my MT class. That will be competing against other TLT's,3Spds, Blackfoot sized vehicles etc such as my thunderfoot. Don't worry, you won't be up against the Juggs/TXT/Clods as they are in the next class up!

[DJTheo]

Just a note, in RC trial races here there are penalty points for reversing too, so you need to plan your path more carefully and the advantage of bigger vehicles is eliminated.

Cheers

[Virus]

cool thanks M4F

better start making my gp packs up then []

Virus

[mud4fun]

Cheers Theo, I'll modify the rules.

[BIG WHEELER]

I agree that you need a few simple rules which it seems you have managed to keep to a bare minimum i was just trying to say try not to get bogged down with loads of rules.Anyway must congratulate you on having the guts to set up something like this and wish you all the very best and hope to meet you soon[]

[fatboyslim]

I thought you were going to allow shunting Ian??

Maybe you could limit them to 2 shunts per gate??

If you need any help LMK, as you know I'm not a million miles away!!

[mud4fun]

Cheers Mate, the shunting will be the main issue with the rules I think. Even in the AWDC we used to allow shunting for LWD vehicles attempting the same sections as SWB vehicles which weren't allowed a shunt. However, the driver of the LWB had to declare beforehand where on the section he would need the shunt.

I personally feel that reversing should be allowed but having a time limit on the section instead. Sure you could try a hundred different routes over the rocks if you have reverse allowed but then you won't clear the section in the time limit and you'll get max points. Drivers who can get thru the section quickly without trying many routes will be rewarded. I just don't want to many rules and regulation because it will become a nightmare to manage the event and will cause confusion and upset. Simple easily applied rules are best I think.

[DJTheo]

It is very simple IMHO. The time needed for every section is measured and for every penalty like touching of flags or reversing the according penalty seconds are added, the driver with the shortest total time wins, no time limits and complicated rules but clear and fair ones.

Cheers

[Cul-Tech]

What is Shunting?[:I]

[mud4fun]

LOL, in the UK trial events 'Shunting' is the term used to define a vehicle reversing on a section. It is permitted in certain situations for certain vehicle types - usually long wheelbase vehicles driven over the same sections as short wheelbase vehicles. Generally though, they are only allowed one 'shunt' per section and they have to specify where they are going to do it before starting the section. It just evens up the playing field a little bit- otherwise a 113" wheelbase pickup truck would stand no chance against an 80" wheelbase Land Rover/Suzuki SJ!!! (Mind you even with the shunt they have little chance......)

[Cul-Tech]

Got it.... Thanks []

[jedzuki(2)]

Yes, and it must be purely to get round a tight turn. No reversing for a second go at a hill or muddy bit. []