What's the deal with motor timing?

[Oblivion]

Iv'e just got a Wild Dagger and I want to upgrade the motors to something faster and more powerful. Thing is, I see most motors have 24 degrees 'forward' timing. Can these run in reverse too? Also, are there any motors for the Dagger that you can recommend?

Cheers

Oblivion

[much2much]

Oblivion,

Some stock motors have 'fixed' 24 degree timing, whilst modified motors have the facility to vary the timing. The usual 'nothing for free' trade off applies (i.e. battery life for motor speed). Running the motor in reverse effective give you 24 dergree lag which will kill your motors performance. For running in reverse see:

http://tamiyaclub.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2666

Although it is possible to flip the timing on most motors, having a re-buildable motor (stock or modified) will make it a good deal easier.

I no motor guru, but i hope this is helpful.

Sam

[Oblivion]

Thanks. Iv'e also heard that on a two motor truck like the Dagger, you have to have one motor in forward rotation, and one in reverse. But surely, if you do this then if you are driving forwards for example, then the two motors would be going against each other?

[DJTheo]

No, just one will do the biggest part of the "work" and consume more. DC (asynchron) engines produce torque, rpm is only a result of torque so no problem.

[aconsola(2)]

Yup, in most 2 motor trucks, one motor is forward rotation, the other is reverse. In the clod the REverse is in the REar, I'm not sure about the others though. You can wire up the fixed timing motors so that the truck will seem to operate normally, but you will lose performance if using fixed timing motors due to the retarded timing on the "reversed" motor.

My suggestion for upgrading motors is to use trinity speed gems2 sapphire, a 17t single motor with adjustable timing. This motor has bearings, unlike the fixed timing motors which are all bushinged, and is about the same price and performance(when set to 0timing) as a good (ie: p2kpro) stock motor.

If you are going with the super rooster/F1-pro, you may as well get the mod motor right off, as the need for speed will set in and you'll wind up getting them later anyways. . . Set the timing to 0 for both to get used to the speed, then increase it a little as you see fit. Be warned though that running in reverse with a timed motor is a double edged sword: 1, the current draw will be higher due to inefficient retarded timing on both motors, and 2 the reverse circuit of most speedos are less capable than the forward circuitto begin with, both adding up to increase esc heat dramatically if reverse is used for more than a few seconds at a time.

-Anthony

quote:Originally posted by Oblivion

Thanks. Iv'e also heard that on a two motor truck like the Dagger, you have to have one motor in forward rotation, and one in reverse. But surely, if you do this then if you are driving forwards for example, then the two motors would be going against each other?

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[Oblivion]

So if I need to, then I can use reverse briefly without damaging the motors?

[Oblivion]

Sorry, I didn't read the last sentence of your message! Thanks for the info, I can now look for motors that I know I won't wreck![8D]

[DJTheo]

You wont wreck the motors, they just wont work efficiently.

[nismospeed]

ive only been in the hobby for aroung a month..so i havent owned a mod motor...an sugestions for TA02 nismo...it's got ball bearings[]

didnt kno till like 2 weeks after i got it[xx(]

i love this car..it's so easy to drive and it's good on battery power..i got nearly 15min with a 1000mah battery, msc, and a stock motor...havent ran it for a while though..waiting for my parts to come in the mail[:0]

dan

[DJTheo]

1000mah??? Are you sure about that?

[nismospeed]

yeah im sure.....the guy i got it off said it was a older battery so i got quiet cheap....

i run my car in rwd instead of 4wd...saves a lot of battery power...

[DJTheo]

As far as I know from the 70s the C (normal) sized cells had at least 1200mAh, except if you are using smaller ones, like AA sized.

[nismospeed]

sorrry..the battery was a 1200mah[:I]

[Oblivion]

On the subject of motors, I just found out that the Trinity Speed Gem 2's have been 'superseeded' with Speed Gem 2 Pro's. Iv'e read about them and they seem better than the normal Speed Gem 2's, but the price is the same at most stores. Is there some sort of catch?

Cheers

Oblvion

[TWO STAR]

back in the day when i used to work for a battery manufacturer,we did supply sub c cells with the capacity of 1000mah.the newer speed gems/speedworks motors have changed the edbell design,similar to the p2k copperhead design,the wet magnets have been replaced f type magnets,for a stronger field & longevity.

[raemin]

The pro version for trinity motors signifies that the comm was trued with a diamond bit, plus enhanced brushes : already "breaked in" and silver serated.

Anyone may do it but trinity offers these enhancement for a couple of aditional $.

[aconsola(2)]

while that is usually the case(ie p2k vs p2k-pro), with the speed gems series, it is an entirely updated motor. the pro series of speed gems has different winds fromt he regular series as well for example, the sapphire is a 17x1, while the closest pro is the amber at 17x2. the pros have the new p-94 style brushes and hoods, updated magnets, integrated capacitors, and a different selection of windings.

-Anthony

quote:

Originally posted by raemin

The pro version for trinity motors signifies that the comm was trued with a diamond bit, plus enhanced brushes : already "breaked in" and silver serated.

Anyone may do it but trinity offers these enhancement for a couple of aditional $.

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[Oblivion]

One last thing, do the Speed Gem 2's have plenty of torque, do you know? I'm looking at the 17 turn sapphire and I want to use two in my Wild Dagger offroader. I want a lot of torque and reasonable speed. Can these motors deliver? Any help would be appreciated as I don't want to by some lightning fast motors that can't pull a hamster!

Cheers

Oblivion

[raemin]

For a monster truck, I would not go bellow a 20 turn motor. Efficiency drops bellow this level which is not a problem for a touring car but with twin motors... Also a Monster truck needs much torque at low rpm, which low turn motors do not have.

[Oblivion]

OK then, what about Kyosho Magnetic Mayhems? Iv'e heard they have tons of torque, but are they actually any good? Sorry I keep asking questions!

[aconsola(2)]

The M.M. motors have a lot of torque, and the can is a little longer, as they are 550 motors, not 540. They also use non-standard size brushes(square, I.I.R.C.), so you need to plan ahead for maintnence, as they may not be available locally. I use the sapphires in my clod, geared down with 11t pinions instead of 13, and they have plenty of torque, with decent top end. with the stock pinions, they still had enough power to get the truck up a curb, but the top end was too fast, it kept flipping over(probably a combo of my driving skills, and homemade chassis not being tuned that well.)

-Anthony

[Oblivion]

OK, thanks a lot![]