BMW V's Rover Mini's

[Duke Thrust]

Hi all,

I'm just about to buy a Mini but I'm unsure which is the one to go for. I much prefer the look of the classic Cooper, M03, but I understand that the BMW M03L chassis is superior due to its lower center of gravity. As I understand it this is because the electronics are mounted lower as there is more space available. I intend to hop it up as much as possible to make improvements, a friend is buying the BMW but I want to be competitive with the Rover/Classic Cooper. Am I better off going for the BMW as well? Any suggestions and thoughts on how to keep the classic competitive will be gratefully received.

Duke

[fury_dice(2)]

First of all, where Mini's are concerned the 'search' function (top right hand side) will dig out loads of threads about hopping up the Mini(s). Try 'M03', 'M03L' and 'Cooper' as search terms as 'Mini' by itself is likely to throw up lots of noise.

Additionally, there's a good article on the Tamiya site about hopping up the M03L (BMW) version.

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/rc/setuptips/builtowin.html

The author goes into some detail about CofG. As to the relative competitiveness, then others with more experience will need to comment. (At the end of the day the biggest difference is down to the driving!) All I can say is that a hopped up Cooper is loads of fun [8D]

HTH. David

[mud4fun]

Hi Duke Thrust, I'd totally agree that for backyard bashing the differing COG between the two chassis will make little difference. Just as fury_dice says, the driver skill will overcome that. Remember also that the new mini is larger and therfore the shell is heavier, this might only be 15-20g or so but as the shell is the highest part of the car that little extra weight is magnified when cornering.

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You can get very small lightweight ESC's and receivers which would help in the classic cooper.

[mud4fun]

quote:The whole C of G thing is rubbish, they're both the same!

id="quote">id="quote"> Tony, I assume you refer to the difference between the M03/M03L and not in general! However, the difference between old and new style bodyshells may only be a few grammes but it is high up and therefore strictly speaking is relevent. I was shocked to find that a typical lexan touring car shell weighs 65g and a pickup shell 85g - compare this to a buggy shell at 25g, big difference!

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I read alot about people using titanium screws to save weight, they should maybe also consider using a smaller shell which lowers your CoG as well as saving weight! (This probably applies more to off roaders as the extra ride height makes the bodyweight more critical to handling)

[Pellandine-sports]

Talking about Mini's, there was a guy at our local club a few years ago who had a heavily modded M chassis, with loads of aluminium and belt driven four wheel drive. It wasn't a home made set up....it was an off the shelf conversion.

It slaughtered everything on the track.......anybody know who made this conversion........better still anybody got one they want to part with?

[malcolm(2)]

quote:Originally posted by tony gray

And out of interest we've run back to back tests on cars with over 200gm weight difference. The heavier one was quicker due to the one thing that really slows down a Mini - wheelspin! The light car didnt grip as well.

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id="quote">id="quote">

But I suspect you knew where to put that extra 200 gms! Next time, don't put it low down near the front, put it high up in the bodyshell at the rear and see where that gets you! LOL

[mud4fun]

Back to Dukes Thrust original query, would it not be possible to go for a TL01 chassis and fit a new shape mini shell to that? The TL01 has lots of aftermarket parts and is very cheap to get off ebay. I think it handles and performs quite well for what is basically tamiya entry level touring car platform? I know I have fitted a new mini shell to an FF01 chassis so I think the wheelbases are the same. I think the TL01 would provide a good competitive edge over your friends M03L - Tony can you advise? I used a HPI 200mm shell as I was using wider wheels/tyres. If you have a bit more money to spend you could get a TB01 chassis which gives you slightly more flexible use as it will handle mildly rough ground/dirt track and is more rugged.

[fury_dice(2)]

quote:Originally posted by mud4fun

I know I have fitted a new mini shell to an FF01 chassis so I think the wheelbases are the same.

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id="quote">id="quote">

But yours is an HPI shell - probably intended for standard (257mm) touring car wheelbase. The Tamiya BMW mini has a 237mm wheelbase. I think you'll find the track is narrower too by 20mm or so. Anyway, a touring chassis just wouldn't be a Mini - even if it looked like one [][]

PS. Duke_thrust - you could always pick up a TG10-based Nitro mini - now that would be competitive [8D]

[mud4fun]

Oh cheers Fury_Dice, I didn't know Tamiya's was different other than in width. I think mine still has the mini spirit as it uses a front drive chassis, in fact more so because the motor sits right up front whereas in the M03 the motor sits behind, sort of front mid mounted? so what is the difference between an M03L and an FF02? is it just wheelbase?

[wriggleandgiggle]

The differences are (as far as I'm aware)

Wheelbase - remove the spacer

Track - fit mini arms and driveshafts

I've found the FF02 alot more forgiving when cornering, due to the wheelbase. The mini is more fun but I get better times with an FF02. This is mainly down to my driving style/car setup as I can get an FF02 hanging the back out at such an angle that it's actaully going backwards into a corner, already facing the right way to power out of the bend. (lift off understeer) as soon as you re-apply the throttle it pulls itself out and goes straight, quite mental to watch apparently.

[Duke Thrust]

Thanks guys, I think I'll go for the good old Cooper classic, Michael Caine style naturally...

Do all the hop ups for the M03L Mini fit the Classic M03? - The reason I ask is that Models In Motion website lists items for the BMW Mini that don't appear on their list of hop ups for the old Cooper.

Cheers,

Duke

[fury_dice(2)]

quote:Originally posted by Duke Thrust

Thanks guys, I think I'll go for the good old Cooper classic, Michael Caine style naturally...

Do all the hop ups for the M03L Mini fit the Classic M03? - The reason I ask is that Models In Motion website lists items for the BMW Mini that don't appear on their list of hop ups for the old Cooper.

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id="quote">id="quote">

MiM recently re-jigged the web-site and I found that not al of the hop-ups and spares show up in the categories that they should. Best reference I've found is here:

http://www.tamiya.com/english/rc/rcitem/parts/rc213.htm

There are also the hopup lists at the end of the Tamiya parts lists available via the 'cars' page on TC, or through this link:

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/rc/rcpss/

(BTW - try Time Tunnel for spares as well - very good service)

On top of this, other manufacturers (GPM, HPI and others) make or have made M-chassis hopups. As tony gray and others have said, the HPI x-patern tyres are excellent. HTH. David

[wriggleandgiggle]

I fitted the following hop ups to an M03 mini:

Full bearings (of course)

Manta Ray Ball diff (I think the TA03 Ball diff fits too)

Short CVA dampers

The FF02 motor heatsink should fit too as it's the same gearbox/chassis.

[Gates Mini Racing]

The centre of gravity is the same on both chassis the only difference between the two are the M03 L is black and has a little spacer in between the two parts of the chassis. You could as suggested buy a M03L plenty of BMW Coopers about, £100 all inc. on ebay or £125 all inc. at Model Zone.... You could then take the spacer out and decide which you like best, short or long and fit a Rover body....

The Proline body will not fit the tamiya mini and the tamiya body will not fit a TL01.

All in all the M03 is a good handling chassis, but watch those front tyres and burn rubber!

[sosidge]

HPI don't actually make a New Mini shell - maybe you use the Pro-Line shell? HPI do (or did) make a mini shell to fit the 210mm wheelbase minis - looked more like a souped up 850 with flared fibreglass arches than a nice road mini - but that HPI shell wouldn't fit an FF02 or any true touring car.

[mud4fun]

Sosidge I am sure my mini shell is HPI, it is a 200mm shell and it fits 257mm chassis cars fine. I have had it on both a TL01 and FF01. Admittedly I cut serious amounts off the wheelarches but that was to fit around the huge off road buggy wheels/tyres. I get all my lexan shells from my LHS and he only stocks the HPI ones. Have they discontinued it maybe? It can't be tamiya as the wheelbase would be too short.

[Gates Mini Racing]

Hey Mud,

If yours is the purple FF01 BMW Mini, that I mailed you about a little while ago, then I think it is a proline shell, to my knowledge. It certainly has the proline stickers and is a cooper s....

Like one of these...

According to the HPI website they don't do any Mini shells, there's none in the BMW section and there is no Mini section at all....

Hope this helps...

Mike

[mud4fun]

Hi GatesMiniRacing, many thanks for that, I threw the packaging away a long time ago and the stickers didn't give me any clues. Sorry to mislead anybody! LHS must have had some old stock lying around at the time as he certainly only stocks HPI shells now.

[Gates Mini Racing]

Glad I could help...

Mike

(Ps GMR is fine) lol