Nitro dominance: how did this happen?

[Supershot]

Has anyone mentioned the RC10 GT?I thought this was the truck that sparked the nitro industry and made it so popular afterwards!Kind of like the "Tamiya Blackfoot" of the nitro world!

[SJoerD]

Yes Ian, but you have to bear in mind that you are willing to spend more money and have whole different (higher) expectations from your cars and equipment. [8D]

Super Roosters are **** nice but a 'rookie' would really be well of with a good Carson one. Did I mention those speedo's are fully waterproof? IMO a very nice and sensible feature for a rookie, and not even just for rookies... []

I must admit that the Carson is my secundary speedo, though on this moment it's all I have as my Tekin Formule 10 has given up service, and my Novak Duster II was dead when I got it. [xx(] Let's get meself a Novak GT-7 from HongKong or the USA... []

[mud4fun]

LOL, Sjoerd, you are quite correct, I don't think I'm a 'normal' tamiya enthusiast! I am still convinced I'll get a thundershot past 100mph [][8D][] You just wait till I get my twin motor version finished, it may only last 5 mins per charge but oh boy what fun for that 5 mins!!!!

[nismospeed]

thanks for backing me up netsmith!![]

i dont really see how this topic can on for much more....its either nitro or electric.....

1, it depends on how deep your pockets are

2, how fast you want it

3, smoke or no smoke, noise or no noise

i really got nothing else to say..i got one of both and like both of them the same

cheers ppl

dan

[DJTheo]

quote: I have not got my thunderdragon speed confirmed but I'd guess at 55mph which is still not a match for nitro but faster than most electrics will make.

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Mate, you would propably need an 8 turn motor to make a TD go 55mph (that is almost 90km/h!) with its weight, aerodynamics and friction, but earlier it would propably break into pieces from the vibrations [], its transmission isnt from a TB EVO 3 []

But you made me curious how fast it goes, you can time it on a known long straight, or you could calculate it from the max motor RPM, gear ratio and tire diameter, but the second is very theoretical, as the motor won't reach max rpm, especially with non ultra low gearing and those high speeds, where air and transmission drag is very high.

Cheers

[mud4fun]

Hi DJTheo, yep, the 55mph was an estimate based on time taken to travel a certain distance. I am saving up at the moment to buy some proper electronic timing equipment for my home circuit but something that will also measure sector times. I will then be able to get accurate timed distances point to point which from that will give us a fair indication of top speed although not as accurate as a radar gun!

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I have rebuilt the transmission very carefully and using new ballraces and everything tight the car will sit on a setup block and run at max revs with little vibration. Please remember that this wasn't a stock TD, it was lowered and used a touring car body with the suspension geometry and damping adjusted for high speed running on tarmac. Without verified radar most claims about top speed are worthless though.

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Problem with getting a high top speed is you need a bigger pinion which causes motor to overheat (tried that!) but I was thinking - could make a nice dually pickup truck to act as a pusher like they do on the salt flats....push the race car upto a speed where its high gearing will work OK....would need a clutch then though...tricky!

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In answer to the original question - how did nitro dominance happen - I have read thru some old mags and I think 1987 is the answer. Tamiya moved development to touring cars abandoning buggies as the optima was unbeatable. Tamiya buggy sales were dropping. Back then majority of nitros were buggies. Gradually into the 90's people got bored of EP touring cars so moved for excitement to nitro buggies. Tamiya and others picked up on the nitro boom and have now started to make them too. As discussed in a previous thread, touring cars need large flat open spaces which most people have to travel to. If they have to travel then they may as well go nitro which are equally at home on those large open public spaces.

[bholio]

quote:

Problem with getting a high top speed is you need a bigger pinion which causes motor to overheat (tried that!) but I was thinking - could make a nice dually pickup truck to act as a pusher like they do on the salt flats....push the race car upto a speed where its high gearing will work OK....would need a clutch then though...tricky!

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Somehow, I think that would be a bit too difficult to drive to actually make it work. Maybe a large ramp would be easier. Start the car running downhill which should make acceleration a bit easier in the beginning.

Aren't there bolt-on 2 speed devices for elecric motors? I know the big nitro cars & trucks have 2 speed systems, which is probably the way to go here too. Can a nitro 2 speed be adapted?

Does anyone here use GPS equipment for speed measurement? I've saw an RC video where a GPS device was strapped to the car and provided top speed information.

[DJTheo]

Hi mud4fun,

the pusher makes only sense in a internal combustion engines, which have low torque at low rpm, an electric dc motor like the ones we use has max torque at zero rpm which drops with higher rpms. So if the gearing is too high the problem would be to accelerate it at high speeds where toqrue is less and drags are higher, not at low speeds.

Cheers

[mud4fun]

Cheers DJTheo, I guess my overheating problem was that I was tring to race my car around a small track with too high gearing. Simply running a straight line speed test would be fine. The car seems fine now with a 14tooth pinion, it was originally a 17, running a Team Orion TOP core 14x2 modified, I think these motors run quiet high revs, 28-30K+?

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Does anybody know what the 'honest' speed of a RTR nitro buggy would be? a proper verified figure? I'd be interested to know what the electrics are up against. Cheers, Ian.

[Top Force Racer]

Going back to the original question of how nitro dominance came to be, I think Supershot has a point by saying the RC10GT sparked the nitro truck market. However, the Kyosho Burns first sparked the nitro scene at the beginning of the 90s. Kyosho was, and still is, very active in promoting their gas buggies at the racetrack, for example the 1/8 Worlds Championships, and on the pages of your favorite R/C car magazine. The third (and final) piece to the nitro boom was Traxxas and their RTRs. Take a look at the rear cover of Hi Torque's Jan '04 R/C Car magazine. Traxxas claims the following:

T-Maxx: 40+ mph

Nitro Rustler: 51.8 mph

Nitro 4 Tec: 60+ mph

Nitro Sport SE: 38+ mph

Also, lets not forget the 70mph truck known as the Schumacher Menace offered in both ARR and RTR flavors []

[Top Force Racer]

Extreme R/C Cars magazine (November 2003 page 71) did a review of the XTM Racing X-Cellerator 2WD nitro stadium truck RTR (sorry, no RTR nitro buggies in that issue) and posted an acceleration (0-60ft) of 1.96seconds @ 38.1mph and a top speed of 50.6mph. Unfortunately, I don't know what measuring devices they used.

[bholio]

quote:

i dont really see how this topic can on for much more....its either nitro or electric.....

1, it depends on how deep your pockets are

2, how fast you want it

3, smoke or no smoke, noise or no noise

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4, Do you have little kids who use your cars..

[nismospeed]

hmm i dont have kids.(and i hope not at 17[8)][8)])

i guess though who would let a little kid use one anyway??....unless they where atleast 12 or so and in a "large" open space...

[]dan

[GTA]

I would prefer to run a car in the less well used areas of a large park or a disused off road area, like our local mountain bike area. These rough and grassy areas are only really suited to large 1/8 cars due to their large wheels, strong construction and excess power to push through the grass etc. Electric cars just can't cope with these conditions too well. They are more suited to smooth areas. This is why I'll be getting an 1/8 inferno.

[dhes2809]

I have just bought a Schumacher Menace at the weekend, and Schumacher claim that this buggy will do 70mph. It has the same 21 size 3.5 horse power Thunder Tiger engine that is in the Fusion touring car which I also have, which is claimed to be able to do 80mph. Although I cannot confirm these speeds with any proper testing equipment. What I can say is that by sight alone these things must be getting close to the claimed speeds of schumacher. I really carnt see how any electric car will keep up with these. Not when your out on the tarmac or grass watching these things go.

[Top Force Racer]

I believe R/C Car Action did a track review of the Menace in their latest issue. The have confirmed a top speed of 67.5mph. Don't crash it into something--or someone!

[dhes2809]

I will try not to.[] The main reson I got it, is because the fusion was so fast there was no where big enough to take it without wrecking it. The menace can be taken almost anywhere.

[SteveH(2)]

quote:It has the same 21 size 3.5 horse power Thunder Tiger engine

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The 3.5 refers to cc. I think they are about 2.2hp, but still quick!!

[Top Force Racer]

The Menace will do about 60mph in second gear! I've seen pictures of it and that front shock tower looks a little fragile in comparison to the rest of the truck. I hope you have lots of fun with it! As a side note, I got a chance to play around with Associated's new Monster GT truck. That engine is so loud, it's offensive. That is probably the only nitro r/c vehicle that I would not buy for myself, nor would I want my neighbor to have one.

[dhes2809]

Well after spending a good few hours with it on Sunday morning i give my mate a go. He slammed it into a car tyre at about 40mph and the shell didnt even crack i was so suprised. Seems asif it is going to be alot stronger than the fusion. By the way it has three gears. []

[Top Force Racer]

Oh, I know the Menace has a 3-speed tranny. I was just saying that the truck tops out at 60mph in second

[nismospeed]

**** that is fast....

wouldnt you have trouble seeing it??

[dhes2809]

No not really just dont let it go to far away. []

[mud4fun]

LOL, dhes2809, it isn't that easy - even my thundershot travels 100m in less than 7 seconds and at that distance I can barely see which way around it is... so full throttle bursts are limited to about 2-3 seconds! I think this new dayglo paint is a good way to go, might try that on the next car (flourescent yellow), should be able to see that at a good distance []

[dhes2809]

Painting it a bright colour should help you. I only noticed when I painted the body on my fusion black how hard it was to tell which way round it was.