Can sellers rip you off when you pay via paypal...

[netsmithUK]

Now I don't want this really to turn into a step by step guide for an dishonest sellers out there but I wondered how easy it was to get ripped off when using paypal(and I'm not talking about paypal commision [])

If you see a 'too good to be true' item and the buyer takes paypal - does that give them some credability that they are real sellers? Do you get any insurances? What does it mean when the 'Buyer protection' in 'inelgible'?

Chris

[Twmaster]

It is quite easy to do. Send somebody money, wait for them to not send you your item in the meanwhile they take the money and run. Which means that PayPal has nothing to charge back from their account.

It really is that simple. (I was going to go off on a small rant about PayPal being crooks, but you said not to [])

The other scam pulled via PayPal is usually from Russia, Ukraine or Indonesia where a person buys your item, pays via a credit card funded PayPal account, you ship the item only to find that PayPal comes along a bit later and takes the money from *your* account due to the credit card being stolen. Since you shipped to an 'unconfirmed address' you don't even get the 'seller protection' and are out the item and the money. *sigh*

[professorslot]

if the seller gets the money into his paypal account, and then transfer it to his bank account there's very little chance that you'll ever see the money again in case you're ripped off, especially if it was paid out of you paypal balance, there might be some chance to block a payment idf you pay by credit card as the money normally gets debited six weeks after you actually have paid (best case zenario, you pay on the 14th of the month, and the money gets debited 6 weeks after), then you should actually have some time to do something about it, meaning that you can contact your credit card company if you think you've been defrauded, they can block the payment , but only if you've really got proof (and that is difficult to get). I think this buyer protection thing is new (perhaps due to the increasing fraud that's going on), I think you need to sign up for it as a buyer or seller (not sure) to get some sort of insurance, in case you paid for an item but were defrauded.

Franz

[Twmaster]

I will also add that most of the organised fraud online is with persons outside the USA as it is so very very hard to track/enforce/aprehend across oceans.

[netsmithUK]

great![V]

[coffo]

have you been ripped of then chris

[netsmithUK]

Fortunately not - just had a bit of a run-in with a possible scammer though, who wanted payment via paypal. I was just curious as to how he was going to get away with it.

[akihabaramallrat]

Actually if you pay by paypal funded by a credit card and do a chargeback through your credit card company you can always get your money back. How paypal reacts to this in terms of your account is another issue.

Its brings up the otherside of the coin - buyer fraud - and has happened to me 4 times (though 3 from the same person) this year, even with proof of delivery. Thats why many sellers will only ship to a confirmed address, which is a requirement for paypals seller protection coverage

[netsmithUK]

aaah so how does the buyer fraud work then?

Someone pays you via their credit card through paypal. You send the goods. They claim they never got it and stop the credit card payment So paypal take the money back from you account?

Can you tell when a payment arrives that it is a credit card payment?

What does their protection system cover you for?

Chris

[akihabaramallrat]

quote:Originally posted by netsmithUK

aaah so how does the buyer fraud work then?

Someone pays you via their credit card through paypal. You send the goods. They claim they never got it and stop the credit card payment So paypal take the money back from you account?

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Yup, and they charge you a fee also

quote:Can you tell when a payment arrives that it is a credit card payment?

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Not if you have a standard account but there is one type of account where payments can only be accepted from existing balances (non cc)

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What does their protection system cover you for?

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It doesnt cover me at all as it only applies to US, and maybe Canadian/UK sellers. But for them, if a chargeback is placed and the seller has online proof of delivery by USPS/UPS/FEDEX after investigation paypal will then cover the chargeback and redeposit the funds

[Twmaster]

The buyer fraud I eluded to in my previous post is perpetrated via identity theft. Where the crook will hijack a person's credit card info and pretend to be that person and pay you via a credit card funded PayPal payment. What usually happens is you ship the item, then the real credit card holder finds an odd charge a few weeks later and files a dispute. Then PayPal takes your money away and you are out the item and the money.

As Jason also mentioned some folks pull the 'it never got here' game and try to get their CC company to chargeback PayPal.

*sigh* people.

[Jozza(2)]

Whatever happened to trust [V] It's a shame that this happens, I'm always a bit naive and think that everyone's as honest as I would be, but it appears that there are a few Paypal transactions which go bad due to fraud.

What about Nochex, is that less open to fraudulent transactions? I've used Nochex a lot for paying people, but not accepting payments, and went to Paypal in the end because it's much more popular on Ebay..

[Twmaster]

The truth is that most transactions are completely legitimate and conclude to everyone's satisfaction. Sadly there are crooks in all walks of life and they are the ones whom make everyone wary.

I have made litteraly thousands of deals on ebay with paypal as the form of payment and have never been ripped off in a fraudulent way. Although I have had a few sellers pawn off trash on me.

[urban warrior]

quote:Originally posted by Twmaster

I will also add that most of the organised fraud online is with persons outside the USA as it is so very very hard to track/enforce/aprehend across oceans.

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I may state that from my side of the ocean too. But accordingly to your last comment on this thread, I also never had any problems either with PayPal-payed auctions or whatever. Well admittedly I also never had deals from/to Russia or Indonesia.

I remember a mail from Indonesia that I received, where a guy asked for a large amount of spares and kits for Indonesia, you guys warned me loudly, imagine what may have happened to me!

Seems like there is no more love in this world [:0]

Martin

[dave.t1]

I unfortunately have had problems with items I have bought from both UK and abroad. I bought some PC hardware from a UK guy with good feedback, (won the auction and paid straight away via Paypal). I contacted the buyer but never heard another thing.

I bought a signed Tamiya RC guide from a guy in the US and he kept promising to send it untill finally he started bouncing my mail.

And yes I have experienced the Ukraine scam on a Palm Pilot I sold. Due to the time difference between the buyer and myself, I got paid & the money seized by Paypal before I got the chance to contact the buyer again let alone post the item (close call).

It is all a bit of a gamble. I only accept money from confirmed Paypal users and will either ask for a cheque or postal order instead or return the money if they are not. If you put these requirements on the auction than you can claim your fee back as anyone not fitting your requirements can count as an unwanted claim, etc.

[DJTheo]

Unfortunatelly for non-US Paypal members I think there is no way to have your adress confirmed, if you don't accept them you loose all non-US buyers.

Cheers