NO POSTS TO LIVE EBAY AUCTIONS...UNLESS...

[netsmithUK]

unless they are your own.

OK there is quite a bit of confusion here regarding the rules on this (has any one checked them recently?) largely down to me for not posting something definitive sooner.

The rules are currently being rewritten, until they are finalised this is the overriding rule

NO POST TO LIVE EBAY AUCTIONS - unless you are promoting your ownid="red">

(and that includes , posting descriptions, auciton numbers, sellers details etc which would help you find a live auction)

This might be a sledgehammer approach, but its simple, clear and most people should be able to understand it.

It may get revised once the rules are finalised.

Chris

[RETRO R/C]

Hopefully this is pretty easy to understand. []

This saves peole getting upset about "their" own personal auctions that they have found etc. Also stops people who have no idea about tamiyaclub being unfairly slammed.

Saves a whole lot of problems........for now.

Cheers

Darryn

[Twmaster]

Well done. Simple. Fair. Easy to understand. What's not to like?

Cheers,

[Porsche 928_gts_02]

I DON"T AGREE WITH THIS....

Let me tell you why. You have effectivly wipped out anyone asking questions about potential auctions, additional information gathering, etc. Another words, if I need to learn more about an auction and the selling can't clear things up, like model and so on, you have now disallowed us to do Q&A

Second, if a bad seller, like our favorite Redlinematch dude, comes about we cannot warn people of those auctions. Now, others will get taken.

Since you run this, I guess you make the rules and you can act as Godly as you want. But for those of us who use this as a tool for help, you taken a vital tool away from us....

Darin

[TWINSET]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Porsche 928_gts_02

You have effectivly wipped out anyone asking questions about potential auctions, additional information gathering, etc. Another words, if I need to learn more about an auction and the selling can't clear things up, like model and so on, you have now disallowed us to do Q&A

Darin

---

id="quote">id="quote">

Not strictly true, there have been a couple of posts recently with just the auction picture, no mention of ebay.com/uk/de etc.

The most recent one was the 'is this a srb diff' - nice straightforward post, no mention of car (it was a Super Champ auction).

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/topic.asp?...hTerms=srb,diff

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...item=3122876538

By posting just the pic, it didn't generate any more interest (I was a bidder on it, and watched the counter after the post)

Perhaps the winner (jerzirccar) can advise whether the post attracted him to the diff, or he had seen it before.

And, was it a diff????????

Really, it's down to the seller to satisfy most questions, and if he can't do that, would you buy from him?

I don't think the guys are being godly, there must have been a lead-up to this decision.

Whilst I know that finding an auction doesn't mean I own it, I also don't think it's a great idea to let auctions be highlighted here.

I've bid on things before now, and hate it when the auction 'hits the forums'

Take the 'BRAT' parts from earlier today, a lot of peoples search criteria wouldn't have picked it up, as it was neither for BRAT nor TAMIYA parts, so finding it without the help of the forums would've been a lucky accident to say the least!

Dunno about you, but I read the forums a lot more often, thru habit, than I check ebay, so the posts can sometimes alert someone to an auction they may have missed.

Also, not talking about live auctions does, to some degree, stop some of us big gobs upsetting sellers (guilty on the 9/11 paintjob too) and possibly deterring bidders from an item they may otherwise have bid on.

Whatever the comments we make, they will to some extent, however small, steer the course of the auction.

Anyone here would help anyone out with questions about an item in general (provided the rules weren't broken), and you could always email members direct.

[raemin]

quote:Originally posted by Porsche 928_gts_02

I DON"T AGREE WITH THIS....

Let me tell you why. You have effectivly wipped out anyone asking questions about potential auctions, additional information gathering, etc. Another words, if I need to learn more about an auction and the selling can't clear things up, like model and so on, you have now disallowed us to do Q&A

Second, if a bad seller, like our favorite Redlinematch dude, comes about we cannot warn people of those auctions. Now, others will get taken.

Since you run this, I guess you make the rules and you can act as Godly as you want. But for those of us who use this as a tool for help, you taken a vital tool away from us....

Darin

---

id="quote">id="quote">

For this purpose I assume a given user can add the link to the picture only or just a few text abstracts and let other users react?

EXAMPLE

quote:

Hello, just want to know what you guys think of these Supershot copies

---

id="quote">id="quote">id="brown">

Would such a post be acceptable?

[netsmithUK]

I am not saying this is the best rule, but it is the CLEAREST rule we can think of that everyone will understand. At the moment is just too grey, leading to confusion and too much work on all parts.

We have tried the other 'grey' set of rules for the past 18mths now and I think it fair to say it wasn't getting better. Surely we can at least give some other system a try for a while. If it doesn't work I have no problems changing it to something else (but only after we have given it a fair try)

Its not about anyone acting Godly, it is about trying to work out a system that is best for the majority of our members. This is going to be a simple job - first two responses to this thread are from completely opposite side of the fence. At the end of the day someone has to make the rules, thats just life.

Finally, and this is not intended to sound arrogant/godly/bolshy either, the simple fact is this board and website cannot be all things to all people. Chances are most people like bits and hate bits. If there is anything you don't like about the way it is moderated or the rules we have here then you have three choices

1. Let us know, we'll always listen, but you have to understand that you won't always get the outcome you want.

2. find another board that does suit your needs

3. set up your own board.

RCMT.net and TamiyaNitro.com are both great examples of great boards with thier own set of rules that suit specialist markets. Maybe its time someone set up for specifically Tamiya and Ebay?[]

[TWINSET]

Response to the Raemin post;

quote:

---

Originally posted by netsmithUK

(and that includes , posting descriptions, auciton numbers, sellers details etc which would help you find a live auction)

---

id="quote">id="quote">

I suppose not - perhaps not mentioning live auctions at all IS the way to go, that way no-one gets upset, and it's left to the buyer and bidder to sort it out.

That's not to say a potential bidder can't post a question like "is a blazing blazer really gas powered?", but it would need to be posted in 'Vintage' as opposed to 'ebay'

Perhaps ebay forum is best left to selling and buying tips (if people want to give their own magic secrets away), substantiated 'bad seller' info and 'what do I do now it's all turned to ****' posts

[netsmithUK]

Look at it another way, if we stop post to live auctions (excluding self promotion one) what are we actually losing?

Consider the types of post it should stop...

1) "Look at this really cheap, badly title auction..."

- This may look harmless enough but chances are someone on the board (or more likely lots of members) will have aleady spotted it and have it bookmarked, expecting a bargain later. By making it public it does nothing but bump the price up for all concerned.

2) "What a ridiculous Buy It Now price"

- what a waste of space these post are. What you mean is it is more than you would pay. Sellers can charge what they like its not against the law and what is high to you, will be someone else bargain. Again chances are most of the board will have seen them anyway.

3) "Don't buy from this crook"

- OK getting a bit trickier now, may be a generally useful post, saving members a lot of money. But for this type of post to be allowed on the board its needs to be backed up by an awful lot of proof. There would be no problem discussing redlinematch, because all the links could have been to previous auctions. No need to promote his live ones for him here. We can only really condemn people when we have proof and unfortunately the best proof comes after auctions have finished.

4) "Do you think I should buy this"

- how many times do we have to say it, only you can answer that. You buy things you like and want.

5) "Is this the worse car you have ever seen"

- again, just your personal opinion. You might not like other may do.

At a guess I would say the majority of us are avid ebay watchers anyway and very few of the above auctions would have gone by unnoticed by us anyway - so whats the point. Especially when you consider the downside could be effecting sellers, when they have done nothing wrong.

With regard to questions about auctions, that what the "Ask Seller a Question" option on ebay is for. There is nothing to stop you posting a question based on thier responses or even pictures - but in this instance there is no need to mention it is even an auction. If you are even thinking about buying an auction the worse thing you could do is post a link to it here, you may get some advice but chances are you'll also get a whole bunch more people (and more competition) looking at the same item

And finally like I said in my other post, all the mods will listen to any questions you ask. So if you spot a live auction that you think just cannot go by without being mentioned on this board then ask us and we will give you a ruling on the spot - if it is earth shattering of course we'll say post it, but my guess is most of the posts will fall into the 5 categories listed above

[RETRO R/C]

[^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^][^]

Ebay is ebay - they even have a forum to discuss it !!

Cheers

Darryn

[DJTheo]

Accept and respect this choice, just wanna add an idea:

If in the end the decision not have any live auctions is final, why dont we delete the ebay discussions completely like in Robys board, since then it would be used only for self-promoting auctions which IMHO isnt so interesting as anybody who wants something in ebay can find it there and it would just take forum space for something barely interesting or helpfull...

And if we want to keep self promotion (actually to forbid it in Robys board wasnt such a bad idea, am sure Darryn agrees) anyway we can still alow it in the forum for self promotion. You may say then, whats the difference of it then having it in the ebay discussions, its that no ebay directory will exist which could make new members start topics of the "forbidden" type and then start these kind of discussion again, anyway I also preffer clearly defined solutions, all or nothing, no grey areas...

Just a late night idea, forgive me if its bad, but as said its late []

[netsmithUK]

I think the ebay thread still has its place and makes an interesting read. There is no downside to leaving it open. Even though you can't post to live auctions you can still use it to post...

-You great finds

-great things you are selling

-tips/help/advice

-shipping/packing issues

-paypal issues

-warnings on bogus sellers and buyers (IF you have enough proof)

-auctions with incredibly ending prices high or low

and probably a bunch of other stuff I've not thought of.

You are right Theo, not all of these will be of interest to everybody, but this is the same as any other section on the board. If it ends up not being interesting to anyone then there is no one forcing them to read it.

By having it at least it keeps all the ebay stuff together - making it easier to find for those that find it useful and easier to avoid by those that don't.

You are

[minijosh]

So what you are saying is that I can add a link to my own ebay item? How hard it that to understand? too many [)][)][)]'s

[TAZ-NZ]

All this rule does is course bidding wars, that inflate the prices of the auction items. This is only good for the sellers, it only hurts buyers.

Lets take your examples for starters:

1) "Look at this really cheap, badly title auction..."

I come across truck loads of items that are of no interest to me, or I just can't justify buying another one of, even at such a great price. But may be of hugely interest to someone else, trying to find odd ball part. Now if I post it yes the buy get more interest, but it also means that someone who may have been look forever can get the part they need, instead of someone with little interest in it, picking it up for a song and then turning around and re-listing it correctly at three times the price. (it happens all the time). You said yourself that it more than likely a dozen member have already seen the item, what's a few more.

2) "What a ridiculous Buy It Now price"

These are good, because it teaches new members what they should & shouldn't pay for the item and why. It may seem like an ok deal at first look, but when looked at by an experienced eye may be a total rip off. But your right sellers have right to list their items at what ever price they like, but it still doesn't mean that they aren't on crack for asking three times the going rate.

3) "Don't buy from this crook"

This one you've got to be careful on, one has to hope that the member posting this is being straight up. This type of post should be worded more carefully with the item be the focus of the post, but with an attached warning to would be bidders about the seller.

4) "Do you think I should buy this"

This is a bit of a dumb a#% question, "what do think this is worth ?" or something to that effect may be better, but then again an experienced member may be able to point out something in a reply that helps the poster with their decision.

5) "Is this the worse car you have ever seen"

A fairly pointless post, but then again, this type of post can be used to educate other member about what to look out for, or just a conversation starter.

I must say, I think you included the last two just to make you case look stronger than it is. (but that's just my 2c)

All the members here are into collecting or restoring and sometimes bashing Tamiya R/C cars. The forums should be used to share information with other members and to learn from them too. We should also use it to help each other find what we need to add to or complete our collections.

Having an ebay finds forum works for the good of all in the end, if you want proof check out http://www.mcarterbrown.com/cgi-bin/index....orum&board=ebay "ebay finds" forum for classic paintball markers, everyone there uses it as a way to help other member to find the items they are interested in, and to help inform other members about what to look out for. They also use it to stop bidding wars between multiple members.

It cuts down on bidding wars that only make seller richer, if everyone pays less for auction item everyone can have better collection, sellers may get less for there items but then if there a collector they don't have to pay as much for there next item.

The only way it can hurt members is that it could have a noticeable effect on the average sale price of collectors items at auction, and thus reduce the value of there collections. But i believe if you are a true collector, you should be worried about how you would get if you sold your collection, only on how much it costs you to add to it.

It's not like the forums has so many posts each day, that adding and ebay finds forum would just add more clutter.

I think this site is a great resource, but the ebay auction rule is short sighted. Forum rules are a must, and I don't think this one is unfair, its just doesn't make sense to me.

[netsmithUK]

Hi Taz,

Welcome to the forum!

What a lengthy second post []

I appreciate that we don't all habe the same views and all I can say is the rules we have have developed after member requests over the years of running the board. Rather than being short sighted they are constantly evolving and since this particlar rule has been in place the amount of hassle on the board has gone down.

Just to answer a few of the points you raised

You said

quote:

---

All this rule does is course bidding wars, that inflate the prices of the auction items.

---

id="quote">id="quote">

But you don't really explain how this is? By not publicising live links to auctions how do we drive prices up? Its exactly what the rule was introduced to NOT do. We had people trawling ebay searching for great deals, then watching them for 7 days thinking they were going to get a bargain only to find at the eleventh hour someone posted a link here and publicised it to 5000 interested visitors a day to the forums. Suddenly every looks and rather than anyone of us getting a bargain you virtually gaurentee creating a bidding war where everyone but the seller loses. Our rule keeps prices down not makes them higher. Some of the posters in the link you posted activelt seem to encourage and enjoy getting into bidding wars with other members?? I don't quite understand how thats good for anyone but the seller.

On commenting on BIN prices you say

quote:

---

it teaches new members what they should & shouldn't pay for the item and why

---

id="quote">id="quote">

We are in no position to teach people what they SHOULD pay - all the time we recommend people pay, want they want to pay and what they can afford. But at the end of the day a BIN is a personal choice is none of our business - lots of items go for their BIN price that I would consider ridicously high - its down to the buyer and the bidder. And the rule doesn't even prevent people talking about the BINs - just not while they are live.

Q3 - I agree people should think/research, but the fact is we did/do get a lot of badly worded and thought through posts on these type of subjects, with people adding 1+1 and getting 3.

What can I say about Q4 & Q5, regardless of what you think, we do get those sort of posts. You will still see them time to time if you stick around. Again there is no good arguement for allowing discussions of them while the auction is live. You can have the same discussion after its ended.

All in all the rule is there to try and be fair to sellers and buyers a like, many of whom are our members.

Regards

Chris

[MonkeyFooty11]

The only live auction links I'd like to see are our own (which are allowed) and the 'this guy is a crook' type. The latter can be extremely useful as a warning of the risks involved with high value purchases on Ebay and evidence that you can look for to avoid the pitfalls.

Naturally I understand how difficult it must be to try and create a rule that is easy to understand and allows the latter type of post without opening the floodgates to unfair accusations against Ebay users.

I hope you can find a way to allow these links as I'm sure they've saved people out there money.

[jocktheglide]

easy to understand and I understand why now after reading those posts why the rule was implemented cool.......