Kyosho Scorpion...

[njmlondon]

I have a Wild One which is about to be built and love the realistic sand-rail design. I have never bought a Kyosho before but have seen the Scorpion recently and wondered what it was like? Is it as well designed and built as a Tamiya? Is it actually a good car? Is there a Turbo or Gold version?

Thanks for any advice.

Noel

[WillyChang]

For a 1980 design and a competitor to Tamiya's RR/SS, its a magnificent contraption - no wondering why Tamiya didn't have a chance against it on the track. Kyosho had genuine trailing-arm compliant suspension, decent coil-over shockers & adjustable castor.

There is indeed a Turbo Scorpion.

[terry.sc]

The Scorpion outperformed anything by Tamiya on the track. Very adjustable front suspension geometry which was tricky to set up until you knew what you were doing. If all you have seen from that era are SRBs, the Scorpion suspension seems way too soft, but actually it is just about right. At the time seeing a Scorpion running off road for the first time was a revelation, the car just floated over the track instead of bouncing all over the place like an SRB. Much better engineering than equivalent Tamiyas, proper rear driveshafts, and trailing arm suspension which worked properly.

There was the Scorpion with no diff, the Beetle and Turbo Scorpion with a differential, and finally the Tomahawk with a fibreglass radio plate (like the Super Champ) instead of the radio box.

[stulec52]

although Terry, how many of those driveshafts did you lose??

As I recall mine were painted brigt yellow so I could find them when they popped out !!

Man that car was great, mine weighed in at 2 ounches under 3 lbs with the old Demon 2DH speedo !! and a MR.T. Motor !!!

ah them were the days...

[WillyChang]

quote:There was the Scorpion with no diff, the Beetle and Turbo Scorpion with a differential, and finally the Tomahawk...

id="quote">id="quote">

Slight correction... think Scorpion (sand rail, = RR) has a diff.

The yellow Beetle (VW, = SS) doesn't; we've had that 1 since new.

The diff can be retrofitted, but bear in mind the main diff gear has finer pitch teeth than the solid spool. You need to change the top gear too (both sit in a wet sump).

Didn't realise that until after I had bought all the bits from UK to build a diff, but still couldn't use it. That was 20+ yrs ago... [8)]

[stulec52]

and also after every race day you had to re-shim the diff to keep it running nice...

[njmlondon]

Thanks for the advice - my appetite for sandrails is increasing so now all I need to do is find one! Does anybody know of any good sites to get more info about these cars?

[terry.sc]

Willy, just checked some old magazine articles of the pair and an old Ripmax catalogue and here in the UK the Beetle came with a diff and the Scorpion didn't. My Scorpion never had a diff either. Can't think why there was the difference as the kits sold for the same price.

Stu, managed to hang on to my driveshafts (after loosing one or two at first) by fitting a tie wrap loosely around the shaft so the shaft could rotate freely, and used another tie wrap on the tail of the tie wrap to trap it under the trailing arm pivot. There's an answer to just about any problem if you think about it long enough.

Mine was an ex works version and had/has (I've still got it) machined rear arms and down stops in the shocks which prevented the drive shafts coming out as easily.

A Demon 2DH speedo. Hmm, very small. I used a Demon 2B ESC that was wedged into the chassis where the RX battery box was meant to go. It never needed sticking down it was that tight a fit.

[TWINSET]

quote:

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Originally posted by njmlondon

Thanks for the advice - my appetite for sandrails is increasing so now all I need to do is find one! Does anybody know of any good sites to get more info about these cars?

---

id="quote">id="quote">

http://rc-off.com/index.html can't read a word of it, but it's got some nice pix

Then there's

http://www.oople.com/rc/

And of course;

http://www.darrynsretrorc.rtox.com/

Looking at Kyosho, the Javelin and 1986 Ultima are quite nice!

[WillyChang]

quote:Originally posted by terry.sc

Willy, just checked some old magazine articles of the pair and an old Ripmax catalogue and here in the UK the Beetle came with a diff and the Scorpion didn't. My Scorpion never had a diff either. Can't think why there was the difference as the kits sold for the same price.

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id="quote">id="quote">

Guess Ripmax is wrong? []

Sounds like both Scorpion and Beetle didn't have diffs then.

Perhaps it was a Turbo Scorpion and Tomahawk part?

(I think I built it out of OptionHouse packets.)

The spool that sits in there in lieu of the diff is made of nylon

gear and aluminium centre. Kept stripping this nylon bit even

though I didn't use any crazy motors in it. A few yrs down

the only place that had spares for that were shops in UK.

[stulec52]

I clearly remember buying my Beetle brand new back in 1984, and it had no diff, but the guy I got it from said the reason the Scorpion cost a little more was that it did have the diff.

I still went out and bought a diff for my Beetle, what an awesome car...

[miramar]

Both the Scorpion and the Beetle were first launched without diffs. Here in Europe, the Scorpion got the diff after a year or so. I don't know about the Beetle though, but as racers bought the Scorpion rather than the Beetle, it's likely that the Beetle never got it.

As for Tomahawk and Turbo Scorpion, the Tomahawk came before the Turbo!

[DJTheo]

Yup, in the 87 Kyosho catologue the Tomahawk isnt already included anymore while the TS still is.

[night_owl]

Yes.

Scorpion and Beetle has no diffs

Tomahawk and Turbo Scorpion came with diffs and a hardern top gear (the gear that goes on top of the diff).

IMHO, the battery fitting of the Tomahawk is way better than the radio box treatment of the other 3. I have many scorpion radio box and most of them are drill out for cooling and also to pass the ESC battery plug down to the battery compartment.

[WillyChang]

ESC?

I love it how Kyosho uses the ally chassis rails and the rear susp mounting plates as the heatsink for the 2 ceramic MSC resistors.

No chance of toasting those in a hurry!

[wldnas]

While you guys are arguing about which Scorpion based cars came supplied with diffs and which didn't I thinkyou have overlooked something..... What about Cox and Graupner Scorpions?

I have Cox Scorpion and that came with a diff as standard, I also have the remains of what I think was a Tomahawk and that has a Diff too, Cox and Graupner cars also had various small detail differnces over their Kyosho Cousins, most notably the colour of the chassis tub which was Black, there was also some slight differnces in the wheel designs and both Cox and Graupner did their own Turbo versions, still when you compare any Tamiya SRB car agains a Scorpion based machine, in terms of performance, CHALK AND CHEESE []

BTW: Cox also did a pick-up truck based on the Scorpion chassis called the SIDEWINDER

[tanker(2)]

quote:Originally posted by miramar

Both the Scorpion and the Beetle were first launched without diffs. Here in Europe, the Scorpion got the diff after a year or so. I don't know about the Beetle though, but as racers bought the Scorpion rather than the Beetle, it's likely that the Beetle never got it.

As for Tomahawk and Turbo Scorpion, the Tomahawk came before the Turbo!

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id="quote">id="quote">

No doubt Kyosho Scorpions are better than our Tamiya SRB. Even a fully hop-up SRB with all the after market parts are no match with a stock Scorpion with a differential. Scorpion series are made to be very light when compared with SRB. Around 1983 onward, most cars were promoted as 'light car' and that implied 'faster' car. For example, AYK sidewinder was marketed in Japan as 1450g fully equipped, Scorpion probably was in similar range. SRB are very heavy to start with, even with the best options available, they are seldom lighter than stock. As a matter of fact, most hop-up for SRB were not meant to save weight but only one of the many attempts to get the SRB more drivable. In most cases, I found the hop-up SRBs were heavier after hop-up. Anyway, I remember back in 1984/85 in one of the Japanese RC magazine, an article described a slimmed down Scorpion that weight less than 1000g fully equipped with radio and battery. But we are talking about a scorpion without a lot of little things.

Also, the Scorpion shocks are good when they are new, after a short time in used, they tend to leak a bit.

[WillyChang]

quote:Originally posted by tanker

Also, the Scorpion shocks are good when they are new, after a short time in used, they tend to leak a bit.

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id="quote">id="quote">

A bit?

Mine (1 kiddy owner/driver from new = well used) are so worn they can't even hold GREASE inside them... [:I]

[terry.sc]

Just like my SRB, I used to mount my shocks upside down just to try and keep the oil in for the days racing. When I stopped racing it I turned them round the right way. The oil is now on the lower ball joints.

[Shodog]

what is the differences between the scopion and turbo scorpion. Just the name? TS had the diff?

Jim

[DJTheo]

Here are the differences:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4584

Cheers

[volksrod68]

hi all.

i have just bought this scorpion off ebay for 70 english pounds, was it a good buy?

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...id=10766&id=140

looks to be in very nice condition, with complete radio set-up.

are they full aluminium/alloy wheels?

i take it this is a standard model, judging by what has been said about the turbo scorpions.

but seems like a quality car, with metal wheels/metal shocks, etc etc.

anyone got any information on this car, and what the value is?

should i restore it to show or clean it up and run it?

thanks

[terry.sc]

It does look to be in very good condition. It is a standard Scorpion - easy way to tell is the yellow radio box. Unfortunately the wheels look like the standard Scorpion wheels to me. They are just chrome plated plastic, not aluminium.

It does look completely standard, no option parts or modifications to it. Most Scorpions I know of were bought to be raced, so the majority of Scorions were not lft as standard like this one.