The end of hong kong or the start of low prices everywhere?

[Stefan(2)]

Hi guys,

i have heard the following rumour,

starting match all prices from Tamiya sellers must be the same.

Would this mean the end of buying cheap in hong kong or be the start of buying

cheap in your local hobby shop?

(if it is tru!)

 

Personally, i think it is hard if not impossible to control/check by Tamiya.. but that is my opinion ofcourse!

Stefan

 

[RETRO R/C]

You would be right too!

Tamiya are not the first company looking at "globalising" their prices

on a world wide scale. HUDY (X-RAY) - have been doing it for over a

year now - and pricing is pretty close no matter where you get it. It

is close - but not perfect - as no company can "restict trade" or price

fix.

It is a "deep and complicated" situation - however in the end - it

benefits the consumer as prices tend to be fairer for everyone around

the world. For too long the English and Australian public have paid

WELL ABOVE what is considered to be a fair price when "doing the right

thing" and buying from the local hobby shop particularly with Tamiya.

The importers have been "gouging" for a long time. Nice to see

companies "globalising" things.

Cheers

Darryn

[Stefan(2)]

Very tru, we have here in the netherlands a "predator" importer, who has the sole right to

sell in the Netherlands.

I have informed around a year or so back to start for myself, but could not get around the importer

if i wanted a legit shop. Basicly torpedo-ing my plans.

 

Result, everybody (me at least), walking away from the LHS and order with stella.

To be real selfish (and, regarding my money, i am) , i buy where it is cheapest as i don't need

service (got tamiyaclub for that )

For a starter a LHS is great, as the guy behind the counter can help you get it running or fix it if it

is broken down.

Basicly, if you buy more kits.. you don't need that, due my location i have to mail-order anyway, so a quick local pickup is out of the quistion anyway for me.

For me remains the quistion:

Do we get japan/hong kong (and followed close by germany) prices here in the overpaying country's or do they get a price raise in the far east?

Stefan

[Gilberto the great]

Interesting thread, would be great if it were true.  I agree - UK buyers are paying over the odds but there are still bargains to be had (Have picked up several from Time Tunnel) but the other thing that comes into the equation is the LHS usually cannot compete with larger overseas suppliers due to their turnover of sales.

When I look back I have only bought a handful of models in the UK - One from Modelsport, which got me back into rc a couple of year ago (Before I knew about TC and Stella models etc) and a few from Time Tunnel.  Most have been from Stella models as if you are cheeky you can usually blag a bargain if you ask for bearings and a few bits as well - as they often throw in some things for free or reduce postage costs, something a LHS cannot afford to do. 

If UK prices did come down that would be fantastic -

But if Tamiya made the kits cheaper for UK suppliers, would the shops pass on the price reductions to us?

 

 

[theshopkeeper]

If UK prices did come down that would be fantastic -

But if Tamiya made the kits cheaper for UK suppliers, would the shops pass on the price reductions to us?

I try not to give a "view from the trade" as it's not generally very popular with our suppliers or competitors, but here goes:

I'd say as one of the three UK sponsors of Tamiya Club that all three of us do pass on the savings, and believe me the prices have come down significantly in the past year on many cars where the importer has enough stock at the right price to pass on the saving. E.g. in the past month both us and Modelsport have cut the price on many popular cars (example - Blackfoot, Twin Det, Mad Bull, many TT01s and a load of cheap TL01s which seem to come and go - Focus and Subaru this time, going cheap for example).  just to clarify this as reading back it sounds like collusion - the prices tend to come out the same since there is a pretty standard way of calculating through a price, and dealers will tend to price match anyway - I've never spoken to anyone at MS regarding prices for example.

The importer has worked hard to cut the general retail price on many kits - example is the Hornet / Lunchbox which have had a good retail price in the UK, such that you couldn't make a real saving by buying from abroad, when in the past with kits at a similar yen price you could make a big saving.  As a result, the UK importer has sold a lot of these cars and demand continues to be high for them.  There are odd items that are vastly higher in price here - e.g. the TRF chassis and to an extent some of the more expensive racers road kits, but it's all down to volume - most UK Tamiya buyers are not TC members and are looking for a basic road or offroad car, that's where the volume goes and so I'd imagine the discount goes on up the line right to the Japanese HQ.  If 500 people put in an order for the next race chassis so they could import a big batch, I'm sure the price would be vastly more competitive - but it's not going to happen.  A painted TT01 though, big volumes, prices can be more competitive.

The problem is that most RC dealers wouldn't buy the volume of Tamiya to get and hold the lower prices because they'd be investing in HPI, Hobao, Kyosho, Thunder Tiger etc etc as well - in the end these dealers will end up with higher prices.  I think that's why some are inventing RRPs (which don't exist on this range at least) to make their prices seem lower than they really are.  Equally, I suspect that if I wanted to stock HPI and other Mirage products I'd end up with **** prices too because I wouldn't want the aforementioned box van full of the stuff!

BUT - and this is the key - it would be very difficult to have the same prices worldwide, as the Japanese/Asia price would have to be inflated.  It costs maybe (equivalents of) £5 for Tamiya to ship a box of 6 kits from their warehouse to a store like Rainbow 10, it costs probably £15 from Japan > HK > Stellamodels and more to USA, More to Europe and (because of the small size of the market) proportionally more to the UK.  So you'd then end up with "Rip Off China" and "Rip Off Japan".

The only thing they might be able to do is restrict trade in non-EC countries, they can't do it in the EC since it's illegal but they probably could in Japan, HK and the USA - e.g. you try to buy a Sony item from the states - none of the dealers will send it to the EC because their terms of trade with Sony stop them doing it.  It's cheaper in the states, but unless you fly their yourself you won't get it. 

[thesuper]

what an interesting thread.....

in my case.....in the part year..the majority of my Tamiya parts has

come from Tamiya USA.  it's a slight bit more expensive but it

beats having to deal with Tower Hobbies.  Tower really seems to be

reducing it's stock of Tamiya stuff lately. 

and since Tamiya has a whole ton of stuff....even stuff Tower doesn't

carry anymore....the slight 2 - 4 % price difference is worth it. 

and while i'd like to support my local shop....they don't carry Tamiya,

they quote me higher than retail on Tamiya parts, and they always take

3 weeks to get something that takes 5 days to get from Tamiya USA

direct. 

maybe it's already started here?

[Stefan(2)]

Thanks for the exlenation theshopkeeper,

Did not know it worked like this, clearefies a lot!

In the meanwhile, i had contact with a frinded lhs owner, basicly he told me "ain't gonne happen",also he says it aint to the importer that the prices are so high here in the Netherlands.What is, he did not tell..

He very much agreed with me that a general drop of the price would be very good, as it would stop people from buying over the border. But, guess he also understands why i refuse to pay at least 1/3 more for a kit when i want to buy it local.

Do think you are putting the finger right on the sore spot, as most shops stock loads of other brands they can't buy as big as a shop who would only stock Tamiya (or any other brand that is).

Don't think it is possible for tamiya to stop retailers sell to a other country, with electronics i could understand how (warrenty) , but with a item like a rc car, -if you break it, it is you to blame- think it is kind of hard to control.

But, to be on the safe side.. gonne order me a rig this week & some bits... nice excuse he?

Stefan

 

 

[RETRO R/C]

Having run a hobby business for  myself  for the last four

years, and managing another shop for 18 months - I have seen alot of

changes as well. Like the shopkeeper - I am generally reluctant to

discuss these matters in great depth, as it does indeed upset the

general business..

Supply and demand is huge issue. In the past the importers had it very

very good, now with the "Global shop" - they have to make the pricing

more competative to your local shop.

Generally - shops will have a pretty consistent margin. Asian shops run

at a much lower profit margin - and even lower when they are just an

online store. this is not a problem - just fact - and the way it is.

This obviously makes it harder for the lower volume counries like

Europe and Austalia to be super competative. We have to accept a very

low margin - even to come close on some things. In fact - our

"wholesale" price is often MORE than the landed price form an Asian

shop.[]

 This topic, as I mentioned before, is very complex, and we are

simplifying it greatly, however busines is adapting to the new market.

Hopefully everyone (especially importers), will forget the 80% margin days - and sell more

product rather than having it on the shelf. (Ever wonder why people

still find old cars in out of the way places - they were way to

expensive back in the day - similar situation - different day[] )

Cheers

Darryn

[Backlash]

Lets start by saying that this is my point of view, and mine only, and I mean no offence to any parties by posting it.

Im an Aussie, and our Tamiya importer IMO, does not do a great job of representing Tamiya products here in Australia, so some items are hard (or impossible) to get here in Aust. According to my LHS, we cannot buy the Hornet, Grasshopper or Lunchbox here, as the importer doesnt want to "Bring them In", However, they are bringing in the Frog (and Im still waiting).

Now I beleive in the slogan, "support your LHS, and they will support you" so a lot of my collection and most of my spares are purchased from my LHS. The problem is that the more I surf the net, and search on eBay, I am realising that the price difference between the kits that I can buy from Japan and Hong Kong, are sometimes close to half the price of what I will pay in my LHS.

Recently, I noticed that a Hong Kong eBay seller was selling the Frog Kits for $159.95AUD with ESC, or $139.95AUD without, and with postage being only $28.95AUD, I hit the BIN, and made the $188.90AUD payment the same day. This was on the 5-1-06, and the item arrived on the 10-1-06, so postage was fast also (there is a weekend in between those dates). Now my LHS is telling me is that the Frog will sell for approx $300AUD, as their Buy price will be approx $190 AUD, although this is yet to be confirmed.

My problem is, do I support my LHS and buy from them, or save myself some money and buy from Hong Kong?

 

[Tamiya1/10]

Tamiya can't affort to loose the LHS but the ebay stores are driving them out off business. As a consumer, we all want to pay as little as possible but a retailer must make a profit.  They have store front rent to pay, maintenance fees, utilities, insurance, duty/customs/GST etc...and keep regular hrs. plus the usual the store thefts.  An ebay store could operate form home or some hidden location (miminal or no overheads), on a part time bases and the world as customers.  Lets face it RC is not exactly a cheap hobby, not everyone is into it and Tamiya is not the only RC mfger, so I can't blame LHS charging so much or have limited selections.  They are in the business to make money and most do go out of business as they also face competition from mp3, iPod, digital cameras, tablet/note books, playstation etc, etc..we only have so much money and some are caused by their own lack of business sense. I suggest support your LHS as much as you can and place order in advance where the retailer will not have its money tie up in stock.

[Drewboyaus]

G'day Backlash,

I agree mate, it's a no-brainer.....half the price.  I buy a lot of things from a couple of good shops in Melbourne, mainly tyres, wheels, paint, spares etc. All the big ticket items like kits'n'stuff I get from some of the many ebay sellers around SE Asia who sell landed kits about half the price I can buy locally for, including shipping, foreign exchange rates and the like.

Is it any wonder that local hobby shops in Oz find it hard to survive when they are having to include a fairly hefty margins for the local agent.  I couldn't believe it when the bloke at my favourite shop told me how much the Frog was going to be selling for here....

Just got a new Lancia Delta shell from Model Build in the UK...good price, Airmail only 9 quid and it arrived in about 5 days....unbelievable, global marketplace indeed!

Cheers,

Drew.

[rajicon]

Coming from Melbourne, Aust, I would love to 'support my local hobby

store'. Unfortunately that this is not the case with Tamiya. My LHS has

been great with things not related to Tamiya, or even cars. If they did

not sell Tamiya, I dont think they would miss it.

In the case of Tamiya, basically they do not have the

stock, as other brands have taken a larger share of the market than

before. What stock they do have seems to be overpriced, compared to

both other brands and the prices of Japan or South East Asia (we are

not that far from Japan, and shipping is next to nothing). Somewhere

between Japan and the retail is a large mark-up.

The Australian importer is doing a poor job. A have tried to get parts

ordered in (cash up front) only to be told that they are not available,

when I know full well that they are. This is only after two shipments

have arrived on-shore, which is about two months each.

So around six months later I get my money back and try to source

elsewhere. Last Christmas while in Japan I bought ten kits and many

spares that I wouldnt be able to get in Australia. Japan does have a

RRP which is usually discounted from most shops, more from the lager

ones. One month ago I was talking to a shop keeper here in Japan about

the price of a kit which is less than Aud$100 as opposed to Aud$250 at

home.

I am sorry if I seem frustrated with the current situation in Aust, but

I somehow think it highly unlikely that there will be a global price.

Even with minor differences with exchange rates, plus a little extra

for getting from A to B (or in this case C, D or even E). I do believe

there is room for improvement though, but exporting and retailing

around the world is an extremely difficult situation. And as Japanese

refuse to pay high prices for consumer goods, the price will not rise

in Japan.

[r6stu]

As I said in another post. none of my local hobby shops sell tamiya kits, spares or even paints!

The nearest shop to me that does sale kits is an hours drive away. Even then they dont sell spares!

My GH was £87 posted from an ebay seller.

The shop I use to work in had to close down because of this situation and now this happens.

[Tamiya1/10]

I bet Tamiya Inc. is fully aware of the situation with the LHS.  Is a vicious circle, few consumers buy kits for LHS, LHS place few orders with agent, agent places LHS orders plus a few more?.  LHS & Agent don't want to get stuck with the stock and hope 10 +  yrs later may become a collectors item.  Tamiya may have to distribute direct to LHS but that will increase Tamiya's cost as the current shipping department will have to be increased several folds.  Running a business is never easy, that is why substantially all of us are employees else eve yone will be their own boss.  Don't be to hard on the LHS as they have been around for many years.

[Stefan(2)]

This subject have been gone over before if i remember correct,

In basic you will have the "suport your LHS clan" , and the "i suport my own wallet clan". Myself, i don't make it a secret that i am selfish and go for my own wallet.

I have to mail-order anyway, no decent shops in a 75 km radius, and the only one having a dealership aka "i carry tamiya logo" has 2 NIB kits and... that is it. Won't even take orders for parts or paint anymore.  Beleave me, i tried to convice the guy to order me a load of parts.. but... "not worth the efford" . Guess who will not get a cent spend at his place from me anymore.

Welllll, i do order my paint & stuff local.. ehhmm... a well, 236km away from me so mail order anyway, but that is more for nostalgic reasons then anything else. (ow .. and airmail & spaycans don't match well so i have been told).

Indeed it is a circle , and for the LHS & customers good it should be broken, but.. the more i think of it and read this comments... " not likly " that anything is going to change

- i wish! - (ow.. and a way to start my own rc-store..).. wishes wishes wishes..

Stefan

[jacolouw]

Hmmm

I dont think that prices can ever be (or forced to be) equal all over the world from the main suppliers.  One of the base reasons therefore is the cost of shipping from the Original Tamiya supplier to the Local Suppliers (not LHS). 

The shipping cost varies greatly - but I think it may also be used as an excuse to inflate the prices unnaturally.  I can understand that a kit brought in by contaier (along with other parts etc) by the Local Supplier need to absorb a pro-rata part of the shippping cost. BUT my Question is, Why does the stuff I import directly from guys like Stella, HKCowboy, and Wallawalla (RIP) still land cheaper, (price, shipping and import duty included) than the COST of the Kits/spares at the Local Supplier (not LHS).  Then the LHS owner(s) still have to add their markup onto those prices!!  A friend with a HS let me even import Tamiya stuff for him for his own use (not selling in the LHS - Contractual bla bla bla) and do net get it from the Local Supplier.

The bottomline is - Where are the cost(s) gonna be cut or inflated to level prices out?  Are kits for sale in South Africa/Australia be made available cheaper to the Local Supplier by Tamiya so that the cost of shipping can be buffered and the selling price stay the same as the kits in the East/Europe/USA etc?  Hmmmmmmm

Jakes

 

[theshopkeeper]

Also to bear in mind:  As I understand it, the importer for any range who is "exclusive" in a country (whatever brand we're talking about) doesn't just pay the factory for the goods and then the shipping, he would also pay something not dissimilar to a "franchise fee" to keep his exclusivity - this also needs working into the price.

Furthermore, it's not uncommon (in fact, probably more likely standard practice) for the price quoted to one importer to be significantly different to another.

i.e. I doubt the basic price for a kit to the UK importer, US importer, German, French, Australian, the *three* importers in Hong Kong (good that, given there is supposedly no real on-the-ground market for the product) etc importer is actually the same - it could be wildly different.  Then there's the, lets call it, "franchise fee" to work in.  Then also import duty (which most buying from HK sellers avoid by illegal declaration - the importer can't exactly tick a box to say a whole container of TT01s is a "gift" and worth £50...) and then the VAT (14.9p of every pound spend in a legit UK shop - so that £100 kit you've paid for, you're only paying £85.10 to the shop for - the rest goes to the great Tony and Gordon double act - the percentage is more in Germany I believe - again that HK "gift" doesn't have it).  Immediately, you're looking at probably 20% of the EC retail being taxes of one sort or another - not profit for the shopkeeper (at least, not this one[])

And then the best one of all:  license loading. [:'(] This is where a maker doesn't count the license costs into the product price in some markets and loads the whole lot onto other markets - usually where the home economy or home market for the product is weak.

BTW, I can turn this on it's head - we sell a lot of Corgi models to Australian, Japanese and Hong Kong customers, aparantly our price posted is cheaper than the cost price over there.  Equally, Corgi models sell in the USA for about 1/3 less than in the UK, but unlike Tamiya the range has very little overlap so most wouldn't be aware or couldn't buy what they wanted from overseas anyway.

Really, the whole model sector is in turmoil worldwide - the better question might be - "can Tamiya (or Corgi) survive long term with only web shops and ebay sellers?". 

Anyway, off to eBay to list model buses:

Item Location: Hong Kong

Fast shipping from UK

[Drewboyaus]

Indeed, but shouldn't the agent be doing their job and actively promoting the products? 

I'm from a sales and marketing background ('still doesn't make me an expert though...there is more than one way to skin a cat) and yes, I understand the beancounter view that stockholding should be kept to a minimum, but seriously (I am going to talk from an Australian perspective here), I have never in the last 15 years seen a single advertisement or promotion for Tamiya R/C outside of anything in the R/C related press.  Maybe they should import some kits and get the badword out there and start actively selling and promoting them.  Are the agents here actively seeking new market share against the like of Xbox and Playstation etc???......I think not.  How about some demonstrations in schools, get 'em while they're young (like they did when most of us were kids).  No wonder sales are dropping off and prices are going up.  If they were my agent....well, they wouldn't be.

On the flip side though.....maybe it's the multitude of cheap-***, Chinese RTR 'Toy cars' swallowing up the market. But I guess that all comes back to educating your potential market.

Cheers,

Drew.

P.S: Here's a tip for the Aussie agents....why not advertise the re-release of the Frog in some non-rc magazines that are read by 30 something Gen X'ers who bought the original back in the day.  Plenty of us are cashed up and starting to have families, why not get our kids into the hobby?

I'll shut-up now. Here endeth the lesson. LOL. 

[walawala_com]

Guys,

Just called HK Tamiya distributor and no sign on globalizing price yet. Could be a rumour for now.

Joaquim

[walawala_com]

By the way, Hong Kong and Macau are almost tax free, cost is much lower.

[steviedee]

i wish it were like that here in the uk [:'(]

[WillyChang]

i wish it were like that here in the uk [:'(]

Hah... don't the UK have some fantastic social security benefits like here DownUnder? []

Like the dole, national pension schemes, multitude councils & departments to overregulate every facet of life, generous family assistance where a single unmarried mother with 4 kids each by different fathers can receive more money than someone earning average wage...

HK has max tax rate 15%, no social security and their budget runs surpluses every year.

 

[drschwangenstein]

Whether prices are "globalized" or not really won't affect how I purchase my parts or kits. Here in the U.S., my LHS carries a total of 2 NIB kits and that's it for Tamiya. When I beg and plead and order anything through them, they just turn around and order from Horizon or Tower. Even then, Tower is notorious for long back orders. So, why should I let someone else order a part when I can do it myself for cheaper cost, faster shipping and a larger selection overseas? I would love to support my LHS, but when they couldn't care less about supporting me, why give them my business?

I go where the service is best. Everyone has at one time or another done business with eBay sellers either for convenience or in my case necessity. Every seller I've dealt with has treated me fairly and been helpful in finding me parts I've needed. So, let Tamiya standardize prices. I'll still support the same people I do now. It ultimately becomes an issue of availability rather than price.

[Stefan(2)]

Direct contact, that is good

"low tax"  .. ow men.. that sounds good for someone who is giving back his earned cash back to the goverment close to 40% !

<yuuuuuughh!>

And for the remaining 60%, you still have to pay taxes for everything you buy []

End of complaining, lol (just took a break from doing the financial-papers). i hate that.

Stefan

 

[theshopkeeper]

 And for the remaining 60%, you still have to pay taxes for everything you buy []

I worked out once at Uni in business studies that about 80% of your earnings ends up as Tax if you spend it all by the time it's passed through the hands of whoever you spend it with and they've spend it too.  A bit depressing really - if you extend the graph far enough, it ends up that 90%+ is tax since each time it goes through another person or company a bit more is grabbed by the government...