My mate had £400 withdrawn from his bank account via paypal!

[netsmithUK]

Two weeks ago a friend spotted too payments had left his bank account via a payment to PayPal.

He had never used his paypal account and nothing showed up on his transactions.

After being given the normal run around from his bank and paypal - paypal finally said they would look into. Sending him a mail to saying could be upto 30 days before they even started looking.

After chasing them every day for the last two weeks eventually they gave him a bit of info. Basically a paypal account had been set up using his cards details (his real paypal account used a different card) even though his name and address registered with the card are nothing at all like the name and address registered on the fake paypal account that had been set up. I didn't think ebay or the bank could or would allow this type of thing. It looks like someone has got his card number and been able to set up a paypal account and withdraw money from his bank account with no more details than that!!

They are still looking into it and it looks certain he will get his money back.

Chris

[MAD ANDY]

hey chris,

i bet he doesnt get his money back mate, i had a similar thing happen to me a month or 2 ago, someone got my details and raided my paypal and bank account, to the tune of over 700 GBP.

all paypal done was close my paypal account to out going payments for 10 days.......and then said it was not their responsibility, that my account was vulerable to attack.

(this is why huff didnt get paid).

my bank done nothing ....paypal have not even refunded a penny.

 

but i guess as a seller on ebay, and they know i will be back, and allowing payments to paypal account, whilst making them money.......they decided that i was not worth the time or energy.......

paypal is not good, and they will abuse their position, because they know we will continue to accept paypal payments.

another point, i would like to make, is, even when u pay someone tho paypal, and they are verified, if that person decides to rip u off, and not send the item......chances are u will not get a refund, especially if it is your 2 nd non receipt claim.

my first non receipt claim was for 2 quid....after 30 days i got my money back.

my 2 nd was for 75 GBP after 30 days i got a email saying i had won the case. but the seller did not have funds in his paypal account........8 months on.....and i am still waiting for the money.(* i will also point out, this seller is / was still active on ebay, but useing another paypal account*)

3 rd claim was for 90 GBP after 30 days, paypal explains to me that as the seller was not verified, my max amount back i could achieve was only about 40 GBP......they actually only refunded 25 GBP...

PAYPAL is a open door to your money.....i use paypal still, as it is the quickest form of payment, but it is not the safest form of payment.

people should beware of that.

andy

 

 

wishing your friend good luck

[ChrisB]

From a UK perspective this is one of the reasons I closed down the direct link from Paypal to my UK bank account and purely fund the Paypal account via my credit card. I am listed as an unconfirmed address, but that doesn't seem to both people unduly - most people go from the ebay feedback anyway.

I am not sure about the ins and outs of whether this gives me much more protection, but at least I know that the money is not coming out of the same account my salary etc goes into. Plus the fraud detection and dispute process with my credit card company seems to be much better setup than with my bank. Under Uk consumer law I think you do get extra protection when paying out from a credit card rather than direct from a bank account.

Also I know the limit on my credit card is not large so if anyone tries to take more than the limit it will bounce.

Anyone know whether you do in fact have better protection funding your Paypal account from a credit card rather than direct to a bank account?

Paypal seem very lax about consumer protection. I am surprised they have not been pulled up by any of the regulatory authorities in the UK over their practices. I would love to use an alternative, but the sad fact is these days if you don't offer Paypal on your auctions you are severely limiting your potential buyers. Sadly I don't think people actually realise how little protection Paypal really offers - they just assume there is some comeback and Paypal are happy to let them believe it...

Chris

[netsmithUK]

the thing about my friends case which is new to me and the point behind me raising this thread is that - his paypal account has NOT been hacked or abused in anyway.

The scammer has set up a completely new paypal account using his debit card number, but a different name and address.

It been so long now since i signed up for ebay, I can't remember what the process is, but there certainly seems to be some holes in it.

Chris

[WillyChang]

I hear Paypal/ePay is lobbying VERY hard not to be considered a Bank (and all the Regulations that entails), even though they're happily keeping people's money and charging for funds transfer services.

the thing about my friends case which is new to me and the point behind me raising this thread is that - his paypal account has NOT been hacked or abused in anyway.

The scammer has set up a completely new paypal account using his debit card number, but a different name and address.

It been so long now since i signed up for ebay, I can't remember what the process is, but there certainly seems to be some holes in it.

I thought one couldn't use the same account or creditcard number for more than one PP account; second time the number is registered the PP database rejects it?

 

[netsmithUK]

It was his debit card which he never used or linked with any paypal account.

Someone basically got the details and created a completely new paypal account with a different name and address.

(he does have a paypal account but that is linked to his credit card)

 

[ChrisB]

I wouldn't have thought the bank or Paypal had a leg to stand on?

If I was him I'd take a strong line with his bank saying unless they have some proof he authorised the transaction (PIN / signature) then he will be expecting a full and immediate refund of the money and any resulting charges. If he doesn't get a resolution within 5 days then he will be filing a complaint with the banking obudsman, as the bank has been negligent in verifying the credentials used for the transaction.

I think he really has to make it clear he holds one party responsible, otherwise they will both deny responsibility and pass the buck. The bank imho is the easier one to persue as there are well defined rules and processes in place for resolving disputes. Paypal its not so clear who you would escalate things to.

I think with a bit of pressure like this you will find the bank will be a bit more proactive in sorting out Paypal.

Although you can order goods and items over the phone / internet with a credit card for example, I thought the risk was still carried by the card company in the event of a dispute. The only cast iron transactions from the credit card banks point of view are those where a PIN or signature was used, and then the signature has to be a reasonable match.

Card companies (& banks) offer the convenience of buying over the phone and online as they would lose too much business to competitors if they didn't, but it was my understanding the risk was with the bank unless they have proof you athorised the transaction with a PIN or signature.

Chris

[PTV70R]

Hi Chris,

Your friend should take this up with his Bank - the fake paypal account is nothing to do with him so his recourse is with his Bank - he did not authorise the withdrawals so they must refund him. He will need to sign a declaration confirming he did not authorise the payments. They will then raise a chargeback to paypal (as long as they are still within the allowed timescales for chargeback). If not they will have to suffer the loss in exactly the same way they do for other card fraud. In the case of Card Not Present (mail order) fraud the risk is with the retailer as if a pyt is later identified as fraud they will get a chargeback. 

If he gets no joy form a 'clerk' he should ask to speak to the Fraud department - most Banks have centralised the Fraud function and many 'clerks' do not know the full rules of who is liable for what.

 

[theshopkeeper]

Probably totally unrelated to him having a paypal account already.  The card number was probably obtained in "real life" some how (dropped receipt, copy of a till receipt etc) and that was used to set up the paypal account.

I've said this before though - Paypal is open to abuse...  if I can check almost any credit card or debit card matches an address using my system (including all but two UK banks/building societies) it would be dead easy for Paypal to do the same.  They should do this check automatically when a card is entered, it takes about 4 seconds of processing time...

Thing is, they don't seem to want to.

[OCD]

I spoke to a PayPal customer support person a few days ago (about

another completely unrelated  PP problem) and the conversation

turned to the European market - she told me in so many words that

Europe/UK is still a 'very new market' and that they are still trying

to work the bugs out!?!  Try that with a new bank! PayPal really

gets away with murder and there has been very little regulation on

it.  But then again, remeber this is all about commerce, which

means the consumer is ultimately the 'victim' []

If anyone is interested - looks like Google has offered an alternative -

PayPal Killer!

Google loves to offer things for free - as that's their company model -

so we could be looking at money transfers at the cost of nothing more

than an advertisment?  I hear PP shaking in there shoes! 

Late last year Google was talking about offering free wireless internet

service to the entire San Francisco area - strangely enough, my cable

bill dropped by about 15% in the next month!  I wonder how they're

going to beat free?

-Steve

[beetlebanger]

he got off lite mate, i had someone nick my ebay account and bought £4 million worth of cars in 7 days.,that was loads of fun for me .!!!!!!!!!!

[Tinno]

4 million in cars,

Thats a lot of TXT1's Mountaineers, and Bruisers.  :-)