Sorry for being such a pain...

[Badboy]

in the a**!!!

Some thing thats bother me is this:

If you go through the TC showrooms like the Rough Rider,

Then you´ll see cars added as a Tamiya RR but there´s not much

original parts to it!!! Whats the point with that?

I saw a 4x4 RR somewhere and couldn´t fint any Tamiya parts!!!

I don´t get it, do you?

Whats the "misc," or the "other" for then?

I know I added my Ford as a Ford but it has a chevy body on it...

But it is a Ford...

As I said, sorry for being...

Cheers

Badboy

[OCD]

I thought categories were for categorizing, no?  To me it makes perfect sense to list it as a Rough Rider, because it is!

If it were in misc., how would one ever find a fully modded 4WD Rough Rider if you were searching for such?

[Badboy]

Even if it´s not SRB parts in it?

I saw some where in there a CRP car with Kamtec body

and it had no tamiya parts at all and it was called Rough Rider...

I guess it´s only me then...

Cheers

Badboy

[OCD]

Well, what would you call it?

If it looks like a duck...

-Steve

[eek!]

Even if it´s not SRB parts in it?

I saw some where in there a CRP car with Kamtec body

and it had no tamiya parts at all and it was called Rough Rider...

I guess it´s only me then...

Cheers

Badboy

If a model has "zero" standard parts then I believe it is

incorrectly listed.

I thought I rememberd reading a ruling on this subject

somewhere? I believe it stated a car must have greater than 50% of

(model specific) parts to be listed as such model, otherwise it gets listed

under "parts, other, or "misc". Unfortunately I forgot where I read this and can't

find it. Maybe others know of this rule?

Anyone??

Best,

[Z]

Even if it doesn't have any genuine Tamiya parts on it, if it is made

completely of aftermarket RR parts, wouldn't it still be a Rough Rider?

Just my $0.02.

[eek!]

Even if it doesn't have any genuine Tamiya parts on it, if it is made

completely of aftermarket RR parts, wouldn't it still be a Rough Rider?

Just my $0.02.

From the POV of the owner absolutely![]

From the  POV of someone looking for a Tamiya Rough Rider (aka

what you see in the early R/C Guide Books), I think it may be

misleading. Imagine a "newbie" trying to restore a RR or SS and went by

one that was fully dressed with CRP, Thorpe and MIP accessories. What a

shock that would be with later realization. I'd probably be angry if a

respected speciality site listed something else (i.e. not close to

original, as opposed to a few minor mods)  that was presumably the

car in question.

I think Badboy's primary question is aimed at "the listing" on TC

rather than the "naming" (similar, but different) of the car. If I'm

incorrect Badboy, pls feel free to correct me.

Best,

[DJTheo]

I think a newbie wouldn't or shouldn't just look just at one RR as a guide and would soon discover that that one is special. For me even a full aftermarket RR is one and we shouldn't stuck so much on definitions as its anyway just a fun hobby and not a serious business. Of course when something is erroneously or purposely completely wrong listed (a pair of shoes as RR) you can always email the owner or use the "report" link.

Cheers

[Shodog]

The thing is that there is no Concours D’elegance to judge authenticity of R/C cars.  There is no VIN number on these buggies to definitively tell whether a car is a genuine Sand Scorcher or Rough Rider or some other pieced together SRB.  So really what constitutes a particular car is open to interpretation.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

Anyone who has seen my rides knows I love hop ups.  The reason here are so many hop ups for SRB is because it was that bad of a buggy.  Most people with hopped up rides usually take the time to list the various hop ups in the description.  If a newbie would read the description, they would find the buggy they are looking at doesn’t contain 100% OEM parts.

 

Badboy, I see a few of your scorchers have some non standard parts on them.

[Badboy]

I understand now how you see things...

As I said sorry for...

Cheers

Badboy

[eek!]

If a newbie would read the description, they would find the buggy they are looking at doesn’t contain 100% OEM parts.

You are absolutely correct Jim "if" a newbie read the

descriptions, but how many times have you had questions asked on your

models when the answer was right above in your carefully written

description? I remember this point brought up somewhere on a previous post. I think

I've had this happen to me once or twice. (I may have even been one of

those individuals at one time.[])

There are no unique chassis or body identification

numbers, but the showrooms do clearly list each model number. I think

the issue here may be quantitative, one boiling down to "how much" of

the original vehicle remains? Certainly, lightly modified cars should

be listed with original names. What if the bulk of the car no longer

remains?? The owner should name it anything desired but its listing is not so clear. Example:

A RR body placed on an Associated RC10 chassis (assuming they fit). What is its appropriate classification? Is it

a Rough Rider? Is it a RC10?

I look at the "listing" question on a relatively large Tamiya-oriented site

this way; (Hypothetically) Would Tamiya Corporation consider a heavily modified

car (>50% non-Tamiya parts) one of theirs?

I'm not convinced they would. If I'm wrong I accept that.

Best,

Kee

[Shodog]

You are absolutely correct Jim "if" a newbie read the descriptions, but how many times have you had questions asked on your models when the answer was right above in your carefully written description? I remember this point brought up somewhere on a previous post. I think I've had this happen to me once or twice. (I may have even been one of those individuals at one time.[])

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

Why do you need to cater down to the lowest common denominator?  If some people can’t be bothered to read the description of a car then do you really think they care whether or not a car is original or not.  The newbie’s really interested in restoring a particular car will probably read up all they can.

 

There are no unique chassis or body identification numbers, but the showrooms do clearly list each model number. I think the issue here may be quantitative, one boiling down to "how much" of the original vehicle remains? Certainly, lightly modified cars should be listed with original names. What if the bulk of the car no longer remains??

 

Is a Rough Rider or Ranger with a Sand Scorcher body on it still a Rough Rider or Ranger?  Case in point is my scratch built 4WD Sand Scorcher.  There really isn’t much there that is a Tamiya but it unmistakably looks more like a sand scorcher than anything else. 

 

I have surfed the showrooms extensively.  I don’t really see too many errors but what I do see is people having multiple listings for the same car.  This is against the rules of the club and it throws the car stat numbers off.

 

I look at the "listing" question on a relatively large Tamiya-oriented site this way; (Hypothetically) Would Tamiya Corporation consider a heavily modified car (>50% non-Tamiya parts) one of theirs?

I'm not convinced they would...or maybe I'm mistaken?

Best,

Kee

 

I don’t think Tamiya would claim it but on the other hand I think they would be pleased with the way some people have taken their creations and built upon them to make something special.  Remember that they are model builders at heart also.

 

I understand the point your making.  This is Tamiyaclub not Kyoshoclub or Associatedclub.  But those other makes are the spice of life and that’s what makes this site so appealing.   

[eek!]

Jim, I'm not in argument with you. I chose to present a case for

Badboy's observation. I believe he has a valid concern. It doesn't mean

its necessarily right or wrong.

I used the RR/RC 10 example to illustrate the difficulty in classifying

a car. I haven't seen a rule or argument for model-specificity. I did

however find one regarding "model" vs. "parts" from NetsmithUK. He set

a quantitative minimum required to properly list an entry. I feel this

is a good idea. I think Chris's intent to set some minimum rules for

proper classification was intentional as a foundation to go by. This

makes a lot of sense to me.

"One last thing, you have to

have over 25% of a model before you can classify it under a model

number. Below this percentage and it really should just be under

'Parts'."

This is under "Car Classification & Showroom Use" under "Club/Forum

Rules". I realize this is not the precise discussion of this post but the

similarities are clear. He chose 25% and that's fine. At least there is

a starting point. I have no disagreement with modified cars. I would

say close to 1/2 of mine have been modified in some way. I never hide

the fact I enjoy modding. Its part of the fun. I agree the other makes

are also valuable and although I am not familiar with your custom

Scorcher, as I'm interested in RRs, the RR/RC-10 could be considered a

Rough Rider simply based on its shell. It could also be easily

considered an RC-10 without any basic guidelines.

I am asking "when" does a

car no longer qualify as that specific model? I haven't heard a

response to this yet. I don't feel this is an unreasonable question. The closest was by Chris above in

describing vehicle versus parts (not an insinuation a heavily modded car=parts.) This makes sense to me..

Best,

[TWINSET]

Out of interest, are there any SRB's here that are totally hopups? not looking for a fight, just curious.

 

I always classify my trucks by which kit the axles come from, and even then usually only Clod or TLT (as opposed to Super Clod, Bullhead etc.) solely because that's what i needed to buy to start with.

 

I guess if you have a RR and gradually change every part, it kinda evolves into something else, but is still a RR in spirit?

For those who like Only Fools and Horses;

Trigger proudly displays a medal to anyone who will look which he was awarded by the local council for having contributed to the community by using the same brush for the past 20 years. He then proudly holds up the brush and claims

"Maintained it for 20 years. This old broom's had 17 new heads and 14 new handles in its time." When Sid inquires how it can be classed as the same brush, Trigger angrily shows him a picture of him receiving the medal and demands

"Well there's a picture of it, what more proof do you need?"

[DJTheo]

I have surfed the showrooms extensively.  I don’t really see too many errors but what I do see is people having multiple listings for the same car.  This is against the rules of the club and it throws the car stat numbers off.

As long as people list those multiples as extra info its ok, if not please use the report button (not only you, but everyone) its nothing bad, usually many members just don't know this rule.

Cheers

[Shodog]

Jim, I'm not in argument with you. I chose to present a case for Badboy's observation. I believe he has a valid concern. It doesn't mean its necessarily right or wrong.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

No argument here, I am just trying to present the other side of the issue.  If I was implying someone is wrong, it was not my intention

"One last thing, you have to have over 25% of a model before you can classify it under a model number. Below this percentage and it really should just be under 'Parts'."

 

To me there is a big difference between a car wearing a lot of hop ups and being classified as an SRB and a TL-01 conversion with a blitzer beetle body being called a Sand Scorcher. 

 

 

Out of interest, are there any SRB's here that are totally hopups? not looking for a fight, just curious.

 

Take a look at my Hopped up Rough Rider.  There is not much left from Tamiya but it still looks like a Rough Rider.

 

 

I am asking "when" does a car no longer qualify as that specific model?

 

My interpretation is when it no longer resembles the car it’s categorized

 

As long as people list those multiples as extra info its ok, if not please use the report button (not only you, but everyone) its nothing bad, usually many members just don't know this rule.

Cheers

 

While it is a bit annoying to see multiple listings, is any worse than seeing some of the other stuff people put in their showrooms like BMX bicycles and 1:1 cars?

 

 

 

[DJTheo]

While it is a bit annoying to see multiple listings, is any worse than seeing some of the other stuff people put in their showrooms like BMX bicycles and 1:1 cars?

One wrong thing doesn't legalise or justify another, for 1:1 cars the real car reference option was recently added so people who don't want to see them can switch them off, for wrong listed as well as anything else you can similarily mail the owner or use the report link.

Cheers

[Stickman]

Hi,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Just read this thread with interest, I think if you have a hopped up SRB (for instance) like the 4x4 SS (seriously tasty!) then its classification is correct as a SS, all the hop ups were designed for the SRB's therefore the car had to start out (at some point in the dim and distant past) as a standard SRB, not a Sand Rover for example.  As the builder popped a SS body on top it then became a SS rather than a Ford Ranger or Rough Rider.

Just because the majority of the car is not made by tamiya doesn't mean its not a valid SS - the car is an extreme example of utilizing hop-ups!

When I put a lexan SS body on my Baja Champ and added big wheels I didn't classify it as a Monster Beetle.  Its still a Baja Champ, it may have looked like a MB (if you squinted) but I don't think anyone would get too confused by it![]

I think its a good topic as its gets people thinking about their own classifications and interpretations of the club rules.

Cheers

Dave

[MikeT]

I agree, if i want to see a heavily modded SRB, i'll look at Rough Rider's listings, or Sand Scorcher listings ( nobody seems to mod Rangers? ) i WOULD NOT look under Parts!

I think that no matter how many options are on the car, as long as you know what it is, and it still looks like it, it is!

How many people bought a Rough Rider ( for example ) and put a Beetle body on it! I bought a Ranger that had a tasty BIN, but had no intention of keeping it as a Ranger, because it isn't my favourite SRB, but the Scorcher is. ( Which is a good deal down to Moosey's and Volksrod's Sand Scorchin' 1/2/3/4/ videos!

 

Mike