Use the search button stoopid

[TWINSET]

Ok, first off, major apology to DJTheo for having a pop earlier;

Due to his totally unforgiveable neglect to use any smillies at all in a post, I read;

"Did you try the forum search"

as

"Did you even try to bother making the effort to even find the forum search facility, you idiot?"

As he pointed out, the question had alrady been answered and he was just trying to add more help but at the time, I just totally misinterpreted his sentiments and went off on one.

So, BIG SORRY THEO [:$]

 

 Now;

The reason it got me, is that a lot of people that come here asking for help are getting greeted with "use the search function"

Now, I know that's what it's for, but if someone's going to type a response at all, why not make it a helpful one?

I've seen Shodog respond to countless posts about paint stripping, the guy must have a key programmed with the response []

It seems that it's too much trouble to be helpful for some people, and yet posting pointless statements is perfectly ok.

 

Let's not turn this board into somewhere no-one can ask a question, plenty of them exist already.

 

Nuff said, SORRY THEO  

[techie]

Thanks for that, makes me feel a little less awkward about asking questions and upsetting regulars.

[DJTheo]

No problem Andy, I have also several times misinterpeted posts, we are all just humans in the end []

Cheers 

[Shodog]

 I've seen Shodog respond to countless posts about paint stripping, the guy must have a key programmed with the response []

It's always bugged me when someone says to use the search.  In almost the same amount of typing they could have given a quick answer.  Half the time a search will pull up so much convoluted information that you are left with more questions than when you started.

In the end this is a message forum to discuss topics eventhough they have been discussed ad naseum.

[Glitch]

I think there is a balance required between repeating information and suggesting a search. Often posting a link to the existing threads is a middle road: it alerts the new user to the existing thread, and takes very little time for regular users who are familiar with the search filters, key words and the history of threads on the site.

As much as the "use the search function" can be interpreted as a lazy and abrasive answer, the same questions repeated time and again can be viewed as indicative of a certain laziness on the part of the new user. But posting a link is both helpful and non-repetitive, and helps to educate the new user both about the topic they are curious about, and about the depth of info on the board...

 "The board helps those who help themselves" is my way of looking at it...

The difficulty with the initial post of the thread that sparked this discussion, was that there was a very specific question, which was very easy to answer quickly, followed by a few very vague questions, which would have been best answered by looking at existing threads... In this case i understand why DJTheo suggested a specific search...

 

 

[MikeG8]

And I may well be one of the worst offenders at asking stoopid questions!  Often, a forum newbie is also a newbie to the whole subject and may not actually know what to search for.  I'm not that much of a newbie, but I still have a lot to learn...so bear with me if I ask countless dumb questions, I'll gradually get better - in the end!

Mike

[TWINSET]

And I may well be one of the worst offenders at asking stoopid questions!  Often, a forum newbie is also a newbie to the whole subject and may not actually know what to search for.  I'm not that much of a newbie, but I still have a lot to learn...so bear with me if I ask countless dumb questions, I'll gradually get better - in the end!

Hey Mike

This isn't a 'get at the noobs post', far from it, this is a pop at the people that have already benefited from the knowledge of the wonderful folks here at TC, but think it's clever/helpful/smart to react in such a way as to deter some newcomers to TC.

Using the paint stripping as another example, every now and then something new does come up, which wouldn't have done otherwise, and it's hardly life threatening to be courteous  (although it's something I struggle with from time to time)

There are some boards I frequent where the members are downright rude to people that ask a question for a second time, and I'd hate to think anyone thought of TC that way.

 

So, who knows the difference between Sand Scorcher and Rough Rider wheels?

 

 

 

[Shodog]

There are some boards I frequent where the members are downright rude to people that ask a question for a second time, and I'd hate to think anyone thought of TC that way.

Sounds like you have been hanging around RCcrawler too long. 

So, who knows the difference between Sand Scorcher and Rough Rider wheels?

Uh hello everyone knows the difference between the two are the different pictures on the box they come in.

 

[DeeMiller]

It's always bugged me when someone says to use the search.  In almost the same amount of typing they could have given a quick answer.  Half the time a search will pull up so much convoluted information that you are left with more questions than when you started.

In the end this is a message forum to discuss topics eventhough they have been discussed ad naseum.

I FULLY agree!

In fact, new members may get the wrong idea and don't dare to ask a second time because they think they are total noobs.

It's always fun to "meet" the members at a club and "use-the-search-button" or "RTFM*" doesn't help to get that "club feeling".

It just sounds a bit disparaging.

Sometimes new things turn up in the discussion, you'll never know...

It may even be the person who is going to trade that particular part for your own car/project...

Just my € 0,02.

 

Grtz Dee.

*=Read The Fruity Manual[]

 

[Dephcon5]

I, for one, never minded answering a question or post (providing I actually had an answer) a second or third time. I am guilty of asking questions that were already asked by me or other TC members. I do most times try to search the forum archives to see if the thread already exists. Sometimes it does and I need not post it again. Sometimes it does exist but the info I seek might not be there so it gets posted again. I have learned a LOT from the ppl here (Twinset, Shodog, Theo, Netsmith, Volksrod, Moosey, just to name a few, the list goes on and on...). Im thankful for the tips, info and ideas from all and always am happy to share what I know. As well, Im greatful for the open forum that promotes this infectious community disease of Tamiya RC.

I like sharing what I know and learning what I dont.

If I share what little I do know many times over it, does it seem like I know more than I actually do?

well..... maybe not.

Thanks to all, and if the opportunity ever comes up, the first is on me

 

g

[JTWTravill]

Also the search has changed and brings up a lot of useless rubbish!

[TWINSET]

[] I thought the search was a lot better now, cretainly finds a lot of older stuff it didn't used to

[DJTheo]

Also the search has changed and brings up a lot of useless rubbish!

Not really, the only thing is you must use AND between the key words, as otherwise it finds also topics with just one of the search keywords. Chris should really make a sticky of how to use the search as this way most people really can't find much even if they have all good intention.

I personally preffer posting links when existing subjects are asked, as I find them more complete then giving just my own reply, also this way the original topic may be continued and information won't be cluttered around several topics, that's why the search is also recommend in most other forums, not to put down newbies as some people here think. Also by telling new members to use the search you show them how to find information in forums, which in the long run is more usefull then just one reply on a specific topic. This belongs to the standard forum netiquette http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette maybe Chris could make also a sticky of it here

 

Forum etiquette

Certain rules of unspoken etiquette should be followed when using Internet forums.^{[original research?]} They include:

1. Read any rules and guidelines established by the community; some
   may have different regulations on a particular subject. Always be
   courteous.
   
2. Before creating a new topic thread, search to see if a similar topic already exists.
   
3. Follow standard grammar/spelling rules and try not to use slang.
   
4. If the forum is categorized, post in the correct section.
   
5. Include as much technical information as possible if posting a technical inquiry.
   
6. Stay on-topic.
   
7. Avoid double posting.
   
8. Respond to topics started by others more often than starting topics
   of your own so that you don't appear arrogant and unlikeable.
   
9. Avoid the use of all CAPITAL LETTERS in posts. (All CAPS is considered "shouting" and causes readibility issues)
   
10. Do not resurrect a very old topic if you have nothing extremely significant to add.
    
11. Try to refrain from lashing back at a poorly behaving member or participating in a flame war; instead, notify the messageboard's staff of the event
    

Cheers

[JTWTravill]

I'm sorry but every time i try and use it comes up with a load of garbage. tried to search lexan paint stripping and it came up with someones mini for sale! with none of the search words even in it!

[T.C~Tamiya]

I'm sorry but every time i try and use it comes up with a load of garbage. tried to search lexan paint stripping and it came up with someones mini for sale! with none of the search words even in it!

This is true, put "lexan and paint" into the search and it returns 21908 posts ??

The first one is this one, http://tamiyaclub.com/CS/forums/thread/184861.aspx which has neither lexan nor paint in the text.

[TWINSET]

This is true, put "lexan and paint" into the search and it returns 21908 posts ??

 

I think it's actually finding the 'and'

 

lexan and paint finds 23,991

(space) and (space) finds 23,873

lexan paint finds 2678

 

Leave the 'and' out []

 

[T.C~Tamiya]

Also the search has changed and brings up a lot of useless rubbish!

Not really, the only thing is you must use AND between the key words, as otherwise it finds also topics with just one of the search keywords. Chris should really make a sticky of how to use the search as this way most people really can't find much even if they have all good intention.

I put the "and" as mentioned by DJTheo, please see above.

[JTWTravill]

How do you make it search for posts only with ALL the words you have searched for? Not just which word it feels like finding. []

[WILD WILLY]

I have to say i have tried using the search for some things in the past and its come up with some totally unconnected thread , so then i have posted something and once or twice had a pm sent saying use the search which if it was'nt for the fact i have skin as thick as a rhino i could have taken it the wrong way , never the less it does make me post less as i cant be bothered to check all the returned search findings like with lexan it returns over 2000 so i end up asking the people i know !

 

just my 2p worth [:S]

[pleiku68]

For what it is worth I have never had any luck with the Search engine or woman for that matter.[:'(].But I have not tried using the magic "and" word..Do we need the Quote marks on the and or is just any old and ok for the search...and like Shodog I don't think drawing the  "check the search" like a gun is very helpful..All in all the site is great..Just because I don't get emails from subscribed topics, lost my trades room, lost several hunder posts, and can't post a picture to the forum, forget my password and get lock out occassionaly. that does not make it a less than desirable place to pass my remaining years.[]..I just hope I do not forget where I am and have Theo tell me to "do a Search".  [*-)]LOL 

[DJTheo]

You need to write AND with capital letters as I was always posting (I never shout in my posts as you should have known that by now [] LOL so it had a reason I was always writing it with capitals), maybe I should had explicetely had written it, so when you search for

lexan AND paint

it gives only 460 relevant posts. It is true that the search of this forum is inferior to most other I have seen, thats why I rarely now tell people to use it, hope Chris will finally reveal the Davinci code of how to use this search engine effectively LOL

Cheers

 

[TWINSET]

How do you make it search for posts only with ALL the words you have searched for? Not just which word it feels like finding. []

 

No idea, but putting 'and' is pointless, as shown earlier.

 

The search function here is better than some, it will search for 3 letter words (like BTA) whereas a lot of other forums say the word is too short.

For single words it seems fine, it's just when you need a phrase or two word (or more) result that it seems to fall down

 

Just tried Gravel Rash for instance, and it shows results containing either word.

 

 

Aha  put " at either end - so for just posts containing Gravel Rash, search for "Gravel Rash" [H]

 

I'm bored again

 

[TWINSET]

Jeez, this is hard;

 Gravel Rash

 

"gravel rash" will find gravel rash with no words in between

 gravel AND rash will find posts containing gravel and rash but not necessarily together; http://tamiyaclub.com/CS/forums/thread/155840.aspx

The AND must be in uppercase to work (as Theo said, but didn't emphasise enough [])

gravel rash will find posts where either gravel or rash are used

gravel and rash will find all posts, containing gravel, and & rash whether any 1, 2 or 3 of the words are in the post - The and is totally unnecessary in lower case, unless you want to find posts containing 'and'

 

 

 

 

One thing to be aware of if the words don't seem to appear in the post when the search says it does; Photo links also count as words searched

Search for rashvid - it's a directory I dump pics in, and the photo link is found during a search for rashvid.

 

 

[netsmithUK]

The search engine is now based on an open source project called Lucene. Its a very powerful system and is used to drive wikipedia and lots of other top sites too. Its very powerful if you can be bothered to learn how to use it properly.I was in the process of writing an idiots guide but seeing as you seem to working yourselves up into a flap, he's the full techie thing.

I've not had the time to test that all of these options are incorporated 100% but most should be. I'll still write my guide with the key options in it, but in the meantime enjoy []

Terms

A query is broken up into terms and operators. There are two types of terms: Single Terms and Phrases. A Single Term is a single word such as "test" or "hello". A Phrase is a group of words surrounded by double quotes such as "hello dolly". Multiple terms can be combined together with Boolean operators to form a more complex query (see below). Note: The analyzer used to create the index will be used on the terms and phrases in the query string. So it is important to choose an analyzer that will not interfere with the terms used in the query string.

Fields

Lucene supports fielded data. When performing a search you can either specify a field, or use the default field. The field names and default field is implementation specific. You can search any field by typing the field name followed by a colon ":" and then the term you are looking for. As an example, let's assume a Lucene index contains two fields, title and text and text is the default field. If you want to find the document entitled "The Right Way" which contains the text "don't go this way", you can enter: title:"The Right Way" AND text:go or title:"Do it right" AND right Since text is the default field, the field indicator is not required. Note: The field is only valid for the term that it directly precedes, so the query title:Do it right Will only find "Do" in the title field. It will find "it" and "right" in the default field (in this case the text field).

Term Modifiers

Lucene supports modifying query terms to provide a wide range of searching options. Wildcard Searches Lucene supports single and multiple character wildcard searches. To perform a single character wildcard search use the "?" symbol. To perform a multiple character wildcard search use the "*" symbol. The single character wildcard search looks for terms that match that with the single character replaced. For example, to search for "text" or "test" you can use the search: te?t Multiple character wildcard searches looks for 0 or more characters. For example, to search for test, tests or tester, you can use the search: test* You can also use the wildcard searches in the middle of a term. te*t Note: You cannot use a * or ? symbol as the first character of a search.   Fuzzy Searches Lucene supports fuzzy searches based on the Levenshtein Distance, or Edit Distance algorithm. To do a fuzzy search use the tilde, "~", symbol at the end of a Single word Term. For example to search for a term similar in spelling to "roam" use the fuzzy search: roam~ This search will find terms like foam and roams. Starting with Lucene 1.9 an additional (optional) parameter can specify the required similarity. The value is between 0 and 1, with a value closer to 1 only terms with a higher similarity will be matched. For example: roam~0.8 The default that is used if the parameter is not given is 0.5.   Proximity Searches Lucene supports finding words are a within a specific distance away. To do a proximity search use the tilde, "~", symbol at the end of a Phrase. For example to search for a "apache" and "jakarta" within 10 words of each other in a document use the search: "jakarta apache"~10   Range Searches Range Queries allow one to match documents whose field(s) values are between the lower and upper bound specified by the Range Query. Range Queries can be inclusive or exclusive of the upper and lower bounds. Sorting is done lexicographically. mod_date:[20020101 TO 20030101] This will find documents whose mod_date fields have values between 20020101 and 20030101, inclusive. Note that Range Queries are not reserved for date fields. You could also use range queries with non-date fields: title:{Aida TO Carmen} This will find all documents whose titles are between Aida and Carmen, but not including Aida and Carmen. Inclusive range queries are denoted by square brackets. Exclusive range queries are denoted by curly brackets.   Boosting a Term Lucene provides the relevance level of matching documents based on the terms found. To boost a term use the caret, "^", symbol with a boost factor (a number) at the end of the term you are searching. The higher the boost factor, the more relevant the term will be. Boosting allows you to control the relevance of a document by boosting its term. For example, if you are searching for jakarta apache and you want the term "jakarta" to be more relevant boost it using the ^ symbol along with the boost factor next to the term. You would type: jakarta^4 apache This will make documents with the term jakarta appear more relevant. You can also boost Phrase Terms as in the example: "jakarta apache"^4 "Apache Lucene" By default, the boost factor is 1. Although the boost factor must be positive, it can be less than 1 (e.g. 0.2)

Boolean operators

Boolean operators allow terms to be combined through logic operators. Lucene supports AND, "+", OR, NOT and "-" as Boolean operators(Note: Boolean operators must be ALL CAPS). OR The OR operator is the default conjunction operator. This means that if there is no Boolean operator between two terms, the OR operator is used. The OR operator links two terms and finds a matching document if either of the terms exist in a document. This is equivalent to a union using sets. The symbol || can be used in place of the word OR. To search for documents that contain either "jakarta apache" or just "jakarta" use the query: "jakarta apache" jakarta or "jakarta apache" OR jakarta   AND The AND operator matches documents where both terms exist anywhere in the text of a single document. This is equivalent to an intersection using sets. The symbol && can be used in place of the word AND. To search for documents that contain "jakarta apache" and "Apache Lucene" use the query: "jakarta apache" AND "Apache Lucene"   + The "+" or required operator requires that the term after the "+" symbol exist somewhere in a the field of a single document. To search for documents that must contain "jakarta" and may contain "lucene" use the query: +jakarta apache   NOT The NOT operator excludes documents that contain the term after NOT. This is equivalent to a difference using sets. The symbol ! can be used in place of the word NOT. To search for documents that contain "jakarta apache" but not "Apache Lucene" use the query: "jakarta apache" NOT "Apache Lucene" Note: The NOT operator cannot be used with just one term. For example, the following search will return no results: NOT "jakarta apache"   - The "-" or prohibit operator excludes documents that contain the term after the "-" symbol. To search for documents that contain "jakarta apache" but not "Apache Lucene" use the query: "jakarta apache" -"Apache Lucene"

Grouping

Lucene supports using parentheses to group clauses to form sub queries. This can be very useful if you want to control the boolean logic for a query. To search for either "jakarta" or "apache" and "website" use the query: (jakarta OR apache) AND website This eliminates any confusion and makes sure you that website must exist and either term jakarta or apache may exist.

Field Grouping

Lucene supports using parentheses to group multiple clauses to a single field. To search for a title that contains both the word "return" and the phrase "pink panther" use the query: title:(+return +"pink panther")

Escaping Special Characters

Lucene supports escaping special characters that are part of the query syntax. The current list special characters are + - && || ! ( ) { } [ ] ^ " ~ * ? : To escape these character use the before the character. For example to search for (1+1):2 use the query: (1+1):2

[TWINSET]

I reckon you made that up