Subaru Brat Re-release in March (no joke)

[bakaguyjean 7]

[] Wow im glad i have friends that give me good deals on stuff so i cant be called a collector, anyway there is a going to be a new Perfect Book also,

[Bluefoot 1]

Well I'm not a big fan of the re-res either. For me they take away the "collectability" of the model. If you can just pop down to the shop and buy one at any time, then there is no point in "collecting" it.  Each re-release removes another model from my list of cars to collect (which might be a good thing [] ).

However it's not all bad. As many people have pointed out, the re-res give us the opportunity to have a play with some of the classics without the worry of trashing something special. I like the Brat, and the Mud Blaster, but I'm glad I never got round to restoring my old Brat. It will probably become a basher now.

My guess is that Tamiya will continue to trot out re-res over the next few years until people stop buying them. They are a business, and they are only there to make money out of what they do, so why not?

With a growing list of re-res, and hence a reducing list of collectables, I can only see the "collectables" becoming even more sought-after by those of us who actually "collect".  I'm just crossing my fingers that they don't re-re any of my favourites.

 

[DJTheo 2]

I'm talking about true collectors, not the people who want to drive it occasionally to get into the hobby: you are born too late brats!

If you like RC, get the originals and drive them, treasure them, make the heritage worth it!

When you find out the parts are rare and expensive, you'll discover if you're really into this hobby or just rather spend money on other things...ask yourself, truly.

.....

I still hate re-releases.

Feel free to comment[]

Sure I will comment [] How do you think you can decide or define who is a real collector or not? You are in this hobby for a couple of years and I have seen so many people come and go and see real long time collectors like Darryn not having a problem with re-releases. You say in the previous page you are not in for the money? Then why do you care if Tamiya re-releases some kits? Something vintage and personal doesn't loose its personal value because of a re-release. I wouldn't trade my childhood Hornet for 10 re-release ones. Also I don't like the elitistic approach of collectability that something nice or rare should be obtainable only to the people with the fatest wallet. These cars are childhood dreams, so imho should be obtainable to anyone who couldn't afford them back then, not again unobtainable and just for the few lucky ones. Despite me having almost all first 50 Tamiya kits I am happy for re-releases as they give me the opportunity to build them from NIB as well to try non box-art designs and modifications and have fun running them. I am also happy Tamiya re-releases many kits as it scares away "collectors" which saw them as an investment or a status symbol, I have seen quite few selling up the collections in the past couple years, there are more then enough elitistic and "limited to the few wealthy ones" hobbies. Hope Tamiya goes on with re-releases, heard Cheetah is coming next []

Cheers 

[Mad Ax 9329]

I'm talking about the effort to restore a

precious model and a few weeks later they just re-release the ****

thing![:@]

Surely, this is just a risk of collecting /

restoring anyway?  Collectors of anything (be they models, stamps,

postcards or whatever) always run the risk of trend changes.  What

is cool today may be rubbish next week.  However, that shouldn't

affect the serious collector's opinion of his own stuff unless he is

prepared to be swayed by general opinion.

You like your original

vintage Tamiya, you spend months and money restoring it to its original

specification, you polish it up and put it on your shelf and you love

it - because you put in the effort to restore it.  Now Tamiya

re-release that identical model.  So what?  Your model should

not depreciate in its sentimental value to you unless you are prepared

to be swayed by puplic opinion.  It it still a lovingly-restored

original model; perhaps even more rare, because it has all original

parts - it was completed before the re-re was available; whereas other

collectors after you may be tempted to buy re-re parts just to finish

their restoration.

It should also lose none of its original

monetary value to collectors (although there may be less collectors if

the less-than-serious just buy a re-re instead of spending a fortune on

an original model).  But hey-ho, that's the risk of the

collector's market - you knew that when you started, right?[]

Personally

I love some early models - Pumpkin, Brat, King Cab - and would love to

own them - not for the shelf, but to drive.  I couldn't possibly

justify spending lots of money on an original Brat, because I want to

drive it (and quite likely ruin it).  I will buy a re-re so I can

do exactly what I would have done with it when I was first into Tamiya:

drive it, bash it, break it, fix it, drive it again.

I think

Tamiya are still making very good forward progress.  Talking to

other members at the weekend, it was apparent that Tamiya have made

some excellent releases.  I was astounded at the sturdiness of my

Dark Impact and my Blackfoot Extreme (with Lexan shell) - both were

involved in plenty of high-speed rolls, flips and crashes; both came

away with absolutely no damage whatsoever.  That kind of running

would have had my original Mud Blaster in numerous pieces, 12 years

ago.  My re-re Pumpkin (with Lexan shell) however, managed to

break two body posts in less than one battery pack.

In the last

year or so Tamiya have released a very good back-yard buggy (Dark

Impact), a good modern representation of the 3-speeds, a competitive

racing buggy (new TRF), some very successful mini buggies to rival the

Mini-Ts etc, and lots more besides.  Tamiya are still a

competitive modern RC company. However, it cannot be denied that the

re-re craze has brought lots of old members back into the hobby. 

In the day and age where NIMBYs and whingers are trying to have

everything but everything banned, outlawed or legislated into oblivion,

the more members we can have in our hobby the bigger voice we'll have

when residents associations try to get us pushed out of the local

playing fields or country parks []

 

[Corpse Thrower 16]

The re-re's won't bother the originals prices. There are enough die-hards out there to keep the prices up.

As someone said earlier in the thread, the re-releases are what drags people kicking and screaming back into the hobby. It happened to me when I saw the Frog new in the shop window.

Re-releases are a fantastic thing. It makes collecting affordable for the average punters like me who refuse to spend big money on something like the Brat, or Frog, or hornet....or whatever. And look at it this way.....if it wasn't for the re-re's most people wouldn't ever get the chance to build a classic kit!!

Might keep a few more of the original NIB kits in their boxes too, therefore preserving them.

[mrbiccies 6]

One of this has just gone to the top of my shopping list........GGGGrrrrreeeaat 

[DeeMiller 1]

Hope Tamiya goes on with re-releases, heard Cheetah is coming next []

Cheers 

LOL![]

Surely, this is just a risk of collecting / restoring anyway? 

No, I am the collector and Tamiya becomes the risk by re-releasing old stuff, not me.

What if Bburago (for instance) would start re-releasing old and rare models?

I know some people would be pretty sick...

Anyway, thx for your opinions, I have plenty of stuff to re-think about now!

 

Another Q:

Could it well be that this IS a joke after all?

-There's only one pic (afaik) of that "thing"...if it was real, a lot of pics would be there because this is "big"...

-The pic could have been taken in the shop of Jason...(pretty wild guess).

-The URL of the pic doesn't have any relation with Tamiya.com as it is stored here on TC...

-Re-re chassis is already there (Frog) so it's looking plausible...

-It was told by someone important in the vintage world (remember Chris and the re-re SS?)...again, looks plausible maybe even confirmed (sounds like Myth Buster Dee now...).

-There is a Beetle wheel+chassis showing and that could be the new M-04M (in fact, it could be any chassis with 58173 Beetle wheels),  makes it pretty real as this is confirmed by Tamiya.com...nothing about a Brat though...

-The new 934 is being showed on a board next to the Frog chassis, if the picture was real, a real 934 1/10 would have been there...(just a thought).

-The bag and coat of that person in the pic makes it look like a "sneak preview" (intentionally?)...

-When it comes out, the "damage" would be minimal because the Brat isn't as popular as the SS (remember the joke about the re-re SS?)...

-"March" sounds awfully close to "April"...

-"No joke" implies that the poster knows about April 1st...fools day.

-When building an April 1st joke, start early (done that myself*) so people will buy it, like in oktober/november... 

-When I had a conversation with Chris through mail, he didn't respond to my question/suggestion about a new April 1st joke in 2007.

Is he in the conspiracy too???

 

Grtz Dee Harvey Oswald.

 

*= When I was into flightsimming (Falcon4, flying F-16, "as real as it gets") I had released a submarine for the game.

It kinda "flies" under water so people bought it, also because I already had released an aircraft carrier.

I started in oct/nov with a few pics of the 3D-model (same procedure as the carrier).

On April 1st, they could download the package: it was a zipped pic of 600kB which showed an S-3A Viking (anti submarine aircraft) which said: "So, you thought it was easy to catch a sub 'ey?!!!"....great succes because I had the cooperation of all the biggest websites (something like TC).

Here's how it looked like on April 1st 2004: http://home.tiscali.nl/millertime/Worldwide.jpg

Yeah, that was a rotten joke, people still hate me for that (in a good way)...

 

 

[DJTheo 2]

ROFL [], your post is a good example of how conspiracy theories are built up, it just takes people with too much free time and which don't (want to) see the obvious. Jason is a well respected member and as a shop owner he couldn't risk such a joke, also its not listed in Tamiya page as its a march release and its currently listing only items till february. But if you insist we can gladly put another bet []

Cheers 

[Mad Ax 9329]

Some very interesting points raised there Dee, will be interesting

to see how this works out.  Like I said previously, if this is a

joke it will probably crush some people's will to live []

I for one am eagerly anticipating more news...  

[DeeMiller 1]

ROFL [], your post is a good example of how conspiracy theories are built up, it just takes people with too much free time and which don't (want to) see the obvious. Jason is a well respected member and as a shop owner he couldn't risk such a joke, also its not listed in Tamiya page as its a march release and its currently listing only items till february. But if you insist we can gladly put another bet []

Cheers 

Oh no!!! Are you in it too?!![^o)]

Oh dear...

Some very interesting points raised there Dee, will be interesting to see how this works out.  Like I said previously, if this is a joke it will probably crush some people's will to live []

I for one am eagerly anticipating more news...  

Yup, just my way to get some more info...[]

 

Grtz Dee.

[mobias 0]

Well I'm not a big fan of the re-res either. For me they take away the "collectability" of the model. If you can just pop down to the shop and buy one at any time, then there is no point in "collecting" it.  Each re-release removes another model from my list of cars to collect (which might be a good thing [] ).

However it's not all bad. As many people have pointed out, the re-res give us the opportunity to have a play with some of the classics without the worry of trashing something special. I like the Brat, and the Mud Blaster, but I'm glad I never got round to restoring my old Brat. It will probably become a basher now.

My guess is that Tamiya will continue to trot out re-res over the next few years until people stop buying them. They are a business, and they are only there to make money out of what they do, so why not?

With a growing list of re-res, and hence a reducing list of collectables, I can only see the "collectables" becoming even more sought-after by those of us who actually "collect".  I'm just crossing my fingers that they don't re-re any of my favourites.

 

 

But what does it actually mean to 'collect' Tamiya's?  Its quite often pointed out here that if you're collecting them simply because they're rare and  you're doing it for the money then you're collecting them for entirely the wrong reasons. I would consider myself a collector  of Tamiya's even though I've only got three. I love building them, I love running them, I love having them sitting on the shelf.  Surely those are the three key ingredients of being a Tamiya RC enthusiast and collector. I can't really see why Tamiya re-reing something means you've got to score if off your list of 'must haves'. I mean I've just spent a fair amount of money on a shelf queen Bigwig because I've always wanted that car and thought it was a good place to start my vintage collection. I'd love it if Tamiya re-re'd it, it would mean parts would become easily available again and I could risk running the thing without worrying about braking or scratching anything.

It seems to me the only people who are worried about the re-re's are the one's who don't run their cars and want to protect investments. The latter is understandable to a certain extent but again I would have to ask, why are you doing it if its all about the money?   

[zakspeed 187]

Firstly this is great news and i'll be first in the queue to order the new brat. You've just to look in my showroom to know i'm a fan. This was my very first Tamiya back in 1983 (oh I remember it well !! - I found some original pics from 1984 which i'll post soon lol).

Anyways back on track, what strikes me about the first picture is the horrendous bonnet graphic !!! arrghh bring back 4WD ;-) the glass appears to be a very dark tint, and also it has the oil dampers. I'd bet that this is just a frog chassis with the Brat body which in't a bad thing but this will make the original Brats still an original piece of kit. I must be the only one how likes the old MSC,s original steering set up, no diff etc etc.

 I assume they'll sort out the tilting body problem when you fit a 540 motor? Also anyone tried fitting a brat body on a reissue Frog chassis with original mounts? I have, they don't fit. The chassis is about 1 1/2 mm wider !!!! at the body mounts.

 Still like I said it won't stop me from buying one, I'd never sell my original NIB Brat or my restored one so the value of original issue has no concern with me.

 

[3doorpete 0]

Well I got back into the hobby after a break due to the Lunch Box re-re. Now I have more models than I can count!! As I now have some vintage models thus increasing the demand for a limited supply, the re-re's have actually served to drive up the price of the vintage Tamiya's that haven't been re-re'ed as I'd never have been in the market otherwise []

Personally I think it is great - True collectors will not be bothered by the re-re's and see it as an opportunity to collect another model. What it does do is weed out the people who are just buying up rare parts to hold onto to sell for a profit. These are not true collectors - they are either the type that just want something because no-one else has it, or just in it for the money.

As stated above - this should save some NIB originals as their owners can run a re-re rather than always be tempted to build the NIB's to sample running the cars they loved as kids/teens.

Long live the re-re's !!!

[RichieRich 685]

I have, they don't fit. The chassis is about 1 1/2 mm wider !!!! at the body mounts.

 

I noticed this too.  Also, is it me or are the rear body mounts uneven too...one higher than the other? 

[bakaguyjean 7]

Wow, anyway i took the picture,its real!!!!!!!!, you have Two people that live in Japan telling you that they are re releaseing the Brat,so dont worry if you want a Re re brat you will be able to get one.[]

[Jim the wookie 0]

What an interesting and varied read! []

I'll say up frount i'm pro re-re (don't hurt me!) and i don't think it hurts the originals to have them around as there are always differences re-re to original and the trained eye can pick them. For instance how many auction with "original frog" or "original grasshopper" have you seen since the re re looked at the details and gone "nah thats not!" i've sent a few emails and received sheepish replys from sellers.

On a personal note I still have my orignal hornet from when i was a young fella, painfully restored pre re-re with all orignial bits and i don't regret the resto one bit. The subsequent re re let me 1. build one nib all over again and 2. drive it like i stole it all over again! The bonus to this was since i was actually out with it rather than staring at it on a shelf one day on a bmx track a local family wandering past came and watched. The dad had had a hornet himself and thought it was great, so i taught his kids to drive the re-re hornet and they had a ball, dad got the details of the online shop i buy from and now 3 little budding tamiya fans are getting hornets of thier own to build with dad on christmas day, who was encouraged after seeing the car from when he was a kid. Should they be denied that to protect some ones idea that their original might lose value?

Just my 5 cents feel free to tell me i'm wrong!

Cheers and i will be buying a brat!

Jim the wookie

[Solan 0]

I´ll have to say, I love the re-re!

I have a Mountaineer, Pajero MTW, Izusu MU, Isuzu MU type X, Jeep Wrangler, Honda CR-V and more - Highly Collectible! - BUT, I´d love to see 

rereleases of these.. Why? because I could DRIVE the re-re, leaving the OLD ones on the shelf - they would always be the first, eldest, most collectible! 

The main point: They are ment to roll on 4 wheels by radio control... Static model kits are available; also by Tamiya!

And I think Tamiya may have done their marketing, and listened to their customers - they may the want re-re, maybe because like me, the first rc car they saw or even owned was a Tamiya and they still dream about that particular car - Whatever that car was!

Tamiya is a company which make their money from customers, like all other companies. And their existence rely on selling the right product, at the right price, at the right place with the right promotion. The re-re wave might have saved Tamiya as a major RC manufactuerer - who knows? If so, I´m very glad!

In fact, if it wasn´t for Tamiya I would probably not be in to RC at all! 

   

     Thanks Tamiya! (it´s better than smoking, I quit when I started in RC... :-))

Cheers!

[HunterZero 76]

But what does it actually mean to 'collect' Tamiya's?  Its quite often pointed out here that if you're collecting them simply because they're rare and  you're doing it for the money then you're collecting them for entirely the wrong reasons.

 

It's not about the money at all.

The fun of 'collecting' comes not from shelling out large amounts of money for something, that's always painful. It comes from the thrill of finding and having something rare. Yes, there's a certain amount of snobbery in the 'having' part, but honestly, it's the finding part that's the really rewarding bit for me.

I can see the argument that the re-releases take away this enjoyment - something that was once hard to find is now plentiful and easy to get. Sure, this means the kits become accessible to everyone who wants them, but now you can just walk down to the hobby shop or log on to eBay and get in five minutes all the parts that used to take months of hunting and dealing to get.

And, let's not beat around the bush, for some collectors there's pleasure to be had in owning a rare item. Re-res make having that model suddenly not as 'exclusive' as it once was amongst the society of collectors (let's face it, non-collectors couldn't give a toss). Certain collectible items have status or prestige associated with them. Re-re's take away some of that exclusivity.

I would consider myself a collector  of Tamiya's even though I've only got three. I love building them, I love running them, I love having them sitting on the shelf.  Surely those are the three key ingredients of being a Tamiya RC enthusiast and collector.

You're missing the real point of collecting. I believe the 'true' vintage collector enjoys the thrill of the hunt for rare out-of-production items more than all of the above. The fact that the items being collected are actually toys you can build and use is just gravy. It's a great feeling to finally track down that last elusive part you need to restore the car you had from your youth.

And don't forget, often once you have that car, you realise it wasn't as great as you remembered it to be, and that can be a bit of a disappointment. But you still had the fun of tracking down all the bits.

It seems to me the only people who are worried about the re-re's are the one's who don't run their cars and want to protect investments. The latter is understandable to a certain extent but again I would have to ask, why are you doing it if its all about the money?

Then you haven't the whole picture. It's been said before, if anyone is in this hobby for the money, then they're in the wrong hobby. This hobby is all about the thrill of finding that holy grail from your youth. The re-re's mean that the nostalgia trip is reduced to 'instant gratification' that's so pervasive in today's market.

That said, you'd think I was not a fan of the re-res. Not true, I do like the re-res. As said before, there are enough differences that a true hard-core collector can still say, "mmmm, that plastic doesn't feel right, it must be a re-release Frog C parts! Mmm, those tires didn't come in fancy boxes! Mmm, that Frog doesn't have the right dampers! Mmmm, that XR311 doesn't have the plastic tortion bar!" and still try to track down original parts for those anal enough. If anything, it makes it tougher to hunt for the original parts, for those who absolutely must have a period-correct example of an original kit.

The re-res do allow me to enjoy the other parts of the hobby - building NIB kits up without the guilt of wrecking old blister packs.

And often, the re-res are substantially different, and are great kits in their own right or even improvements on the original - like the Lancia 037.

- James

[Gixer Jay 0]

Some very interesting post here.

Let the re-re's come. Just remember the original Tamiya kits are the ones responsible for all of our childhood memories which brings us all here together on this website.

Re-re's are a great way to re-live those childhood memories with the building and driving without emptying your bank account.

[HunterZero 76]

Indeed.

In fact, without the re-re's, I'd never have even bought certain cars - like the Top Force. The Top Force came out well after I'd parked my interest in RC the first time around, so I have no nostalgia associated with it. When the re-re came around, it brought it to my attention as a pretty cool kit for the money, so I bought one. Sure am glad I did, great kit.

And since the Top Force didn't get a re-release here in Australia (we only got the Frog and the Hornet from what I've seen), it's cool even to just have the re-release.

- James

[stulec52 50]

This debate came up every time a Re-release ( I HATE the term Re-Re ...) was announced.

  Me, I have have some, but dislike them [:S]

 What I mean is - I, like many others, love the thrill of the hunt for old cars, probably at least as much as actually owning them, and Tamiya bringing them back to the hobby stores makes it like shooting fish in a barrel !!  But, that said, it is still fun to own some of the original models nice and new again in their boxes.

 Oh well, each to their own !![]

[secretsg 0]

Jason, i must ask

 Was there any new 1/16 scale armour there?

Rumors sugest that tamiya would present one there, a german wwII tank.

 

Back to the brat...

Cool !

 Spyshot for you.

 

 

[DJTheo 2]

Agree to most above replies and don't understand why make a fuss about the re-releases as imho they don't damage anyone. The mad collector (like me [:$]) will anyway want for his collection the originals and also would never sell his collection so he doesn't bother about price drop. So let the re-res exist for people who want to relive their youth, have some fun runs, build some NIB classic and try some different paint schemes and mods without guilt or bankruptcy! []

Cheers 

[bakaguyjean 7]

look for re release 911 GT3 body sets also[] no decals but with both the wing sets

[RETRO R/C 59]

I'm talking about true collectors, not the people who want to drive it occasionally to get into the hobby: you are born too late brats!

If you like RC, get the originals and drive them, treasure them, make the heritage worth it!

When you find out the parts are rare and expensive, you'll discover if you're really into this hobby or just rather spend money on other things...ask yourself, truly.

.....

I still hate re-releases.

Feel free to comment[]

Sure I will comment [] How do you think you can decide or define who is a real collector or not? You are in this hobby for a couple of years and I have seen so many people come and go and see real long time collectors like Darryn not having a problem with re-releases. You say in the previous page you are not in for the money? Then why do you care if Tamiya re-releases some kits? Something vintage and personal doesn't loose its personal value because of a re-release. I wouldn't trade my childhood Hornet for 10 re-release ones. Also I don't like the elitistic approach of collectability that something nice or rare should be obtainable only to the people with the fatest wallet.

Cheers 

 

Dee Miller : Oh man - not this old chestnut again!! [^o)]

I dont think ANYONE can define what a true collector is......I hate to think how much my collection is "worth" in money terms - but then again - I did not acquire them because they are worth something to anyone else - or because someone else had one. I am not made of money. My collection is very large and valuable - however not in money terms for me - as it owes me pretty much nothing in that respect.

The Re-Re's only add to the enjoyment of the hobby, as it means that I can now go out and thrash around my vintage Frog runner and just order some parts if I break something. The re-release program also makes any car that has been re-re'd much cheaper and easier to restore. What this "re-re phenomenon" also means that I can keep my original NIB just as it is - preserved as it left the factory for future generations of my family - perhaps others.

My collection is valuable, (both to me emotionally and other monetarily), because I really do love this hobby and every single car means something to me. I dont see the re-releases having any effect on the value of my collection for ME,  ever.........

Please note - I did not take the comments personally at all - just responding as me - as I have been told I am a pretty serious collector[:|]..........to be honest I never really noticed the build up until the last few years...such is the passion. I consider myself a "Vintage Enthusiast" more than a collector - as collector implies you sit and look at the models and never do anything with them - I am right at the other end of the scale if that is the case!

To all others that have doubted Jason's credability, knowing him personally - he would NEVER post rubbish up here. For Jason it is simply too time consuming. I can also confirm the re-release of the Brat - my reliable friend in Japan has confirmed its re-release. 

Long live the re-releases.

Cheers

Darryn