Subaru Brat Re-release in March (no joke)

[DeeMiller]

It's not about the money at all.

The fun of 'collecting' comes not from shelling out large amounts of money for something, that's always painful. It comes from the thrill of finding and having something rare. Yes, there's a certain amount of snobbery in the 'having' part, but honestly, it's the finding part that's the really rewarding bit for me.

I can see the argument that the re-releases take away this enjoyment - something that was once hard to find is now plentiful and easy to get. Sure, this means the kits become accessible to everyone who wants them, but now you can just walk down to the hobby shop or log on to eBay and get in five minutes all the parts that used to take months of hunting and dealing to get.

And, let's not beat around the bush, for some collectors there's pleasure to be had in owning a rare item. Re-res make having that model suddenly not as 'exclusive' as it once was amongst the society of collectors (let's face it, non-collectors couldn't give a toss). Certain collectible items have status or prestige associated with them. Re-re's take away some of that exclusivity.

- James

Well said.

 

Grtz Dee.

[DeeMiller]

Dee Miller : Oh man - not this old chestnut again!! [^o)]

I dont think ANYONE can define what a true collector is......

I was explaining my point in the context of the reply before: NOT in it for the money AND willing to make a sacrifice for completing that exclusive model (read: buying that expensive part/decals).

So, in context, not in general.

To all others that have doubted Jason's credability, knowing him personally - he would NEVER post rubbish up here. For Jason it is simply too time consuming. I can also confirm the re-release of the Brat - my reliable friend in Japan has confirmed its re-release. 

Long live the re-releases.

Cheers

Darryn 

 

Darryn, like Theo (maybe more?) you missed the joke (hints: "Is Chris in the conspiracy too?!!" and "Dee Harvey Oswald" -> Like Lee Harvey Oswald, conspiracy againt J.F. Kennedy, lots of stories about a bull's feaces and it still goes on and on...[]).

Sorry for explaining the joke but obviously it wasn't clear.

Will try not to be funny again [:$].

Will stick to the rules.

No hard feelings though![]

 

Grtz Dee.

PS I already explained that I wanted some more info (just in another way unlike you expected it). 

[DJTheo]

Dee Miller : Oh man - not this old chestnut again!! [^o)]

I dont think ANYONE can define what a true collector is......

I was explaining my point in the context of the reply before: NOT in it for the money AND willing to make a sacrifice for completing that exclusive model (read: buying that expensive part/decals).

So, in context, not in general.

Still its no definition or proof that someone really is a collector or enthusiast as it could be just someone with a huge wallet for which it is not really a sacrifice to stash around everything that is valuable or collectable. The love someone shows to a hobby can't be defined or measured qualitatively, someone who could afford only a re-re Grasshopper may be a much bigger Tamiya fan or enthusiast then a guy who just stashed all expensive NIB Tamiya kits or parts for different reasons.

Cheers

[Bluefoot]

Well Hunterzero pretty well summed it up as far as my idea of "collecting" goes.  And just to clarify:

I do run a lot of my cars (around 50 or so are runners), and I also have a lot that just look pretty.

I don't do this to make money. I have a real job and  other investments for that, so I'm not concerned about any perceived drop in the value of my cars. This is just a hobby.

And yes, I do like the idea of owning something rare and exclusive, something that no-one else has. That is one of my main criteria for assessing the collectability of anything - be it RC cars or bottle-caps (no I don't really collect bottle-caps!)

Everyone has their own reasons for wanting to participate in this hobby, and each to his own I say. There is no right or wrong, just lots of fun to be had....

[Dr.Robotnik]

Who are these collectors everyone is talking about?[:^)] Does anyone have a definition, because I am very confused, everyone seems to have different point of view, perhaps we are all collectors in our own way and we are all right?[]

I personally don't think re-released models devalue the original in the long run. On the contrary I would hypothesise that by bringing more people into the hobby they increases the cost of purchasing vintage cars and parts. This is supply and demand.

Perhaps in the short term some people feel that the vintage parts they had saved up are devalued due to the availability of modern re-released items and thus unload them onto the market causing prices to drop for a certain time due to a sudden increase in availability and lack of consumers (you  have to wonder why you have 900 sets of tires in the first place[H]). However prices eventually return to a steady(ish) state normally higher than before, which occurs when the new consumers want to purchase the originals.

I would like to illustrate this with the price of vintage RC cars before ebay, then after ebay's popularity increased, then again after original Tamiya's were re-released. If you weren't "collecting" in these time periods, just look into peoples showrooms and look at what people say is a bargain Sand Scorcher in 2002 then look at what a bargain is now! Bear in mind there are always exceptions to prove every rule and I know people who still find the odd £20 mint SRB. However overall prices have increased.

The RC hobby has a market and it is hard to generalise about something on a world stage when I don't know all the facts but I hope I made my point well enough.

I personally don't like re-releases. However if you do then I am not here trying to stop your enjoyment. I just think that some people (no I don't mean you) returning to the hobby due to the re-releases are slightly misguided e.g. vintage hop-ups on re-released cars, is my personal pet peeve?!?!? However each to their own! All I am trying to say is why do most people want a Sand Scorcher now? A few years ago you could hardly give them away. Can anyone explain that?

As my Dad says 'there is no such thing as a free lunch'. Everything is about sacrifice and consequences in this life and that includes this hobby. Beware the re-re! [8-|]

 

[RETRO R/C]

Dee - I got your joke - you will note that I did place a statement in there saying it was in responding to other peoples comments as well - my only comment to you was "not that old chestnut again!!" You will note my "smiley" at the end of the statement too! []

Just one question though - why is it that when someone appears to respond to you in a post that you say things like "I will stay in the rules, I wont do it again" etc etc? No  moderator or other person here is trying to shut you down or put you in a negative light........perhaps I am loosing something in the translation?

Never any hard feelings

Darryn 

[DeeMiller]

Dee - I got your joke - you will note that I did place a statement in there saying it was in responding to other peoples comments as well - my only comment to you was "not that old chestnut again!!" You will note my "smiley" at the end of the statement too! []

Just one question though - why is it that when someone appears to respond to you in a post that you say things like "I will stay in the rules, I wont do it again" etc etc? No  moderator or other person here is trying to shut you down or put you in a negative light........perhaps I am loosing something in the translation?

Never any hard feelings

Darryn 

Darryn, I interpreted your smiley as "being serious" (it's a "thinking" one and not a "smiling" or "winking" one).

Your statement also made me think you were dead serious and missed the joke as you were explaining why Jason would never do such a thing.

It made me explain what I ment by my little conspiracy theory, that's all.

So, a misunderstanding my way (again? Yes, again![:@])

Now I have to laugh about myself because I was way too serious myself! (by adding that rule and humor thingy...pure frustration I guess, sorry: busy week, stress etc, no excuse but still..[:$]).

I guess my english isn't that good...

I think this covers it all.[]

Now back to the topic as I think it takes too much time away to discuss the real subject.

Ok folks, carry on, nothing to see here![A]

Now, where were we?

Ah yes: I hate re-releases! (just to keep the discussion going[]).

 

Grtz Dee.

[DeeMiller]

Who are these collectors everyone is talking about?[:^)] Does anyone have a definition, because I am very confused, everyone seems to have different point of view, perhaps we are all collectors in our own way and we are all right?[]

I personally don't think re-released models devalue the original in the long run. On the contrary I would hypothesise that by bringing more people into the hobby they increases the cost of purchasing vintage cars and parts. This is supply and demand.

Perhaps in the short term some people feel that the vintage parts they had saved up are devalued due to the availability of modern re-released items and thus unload them onto the market causing prices to drop for a certain time due to a sudden increase in availability and lack of consumers (you  have to wonder why you have 900 sets of tires in the first place[H]). However prices eventually return to a steady(ish) state normally higher than before, which occurs when the new consumers want to purchase the originals.

I would like to illustrate this with the price of vintage RC cars before ebay, then after ebay's popularity increased, then again after original Tamiya's were re-released. If you weren't "collecting" in these time periods, just look into peoples showrooms and look at what people say is a bargain Sand Scorcher in 2002 then look at what a bargain is now! Bear in mind there are always exceptions to prove every rule and I know people who still find the odd £20 mint SRB. However overall prices have increased.

The RC hobby has a market and it is hard to generalise about something on a world stage when I don't know all the facts but I hope I made my point well enough.

I personally don't like re-releases. However if you do then I am not here trying to stop your enjoyment. I just think that some people (no I don't mean you) returning to the hobby due to the re-releases are slightly misguided e.g. vintage hop-ups on re-released cars, is my personal pet peeve?!?!? However each to their own! All I am trying to say is why do most people want a Sand Scorcher now? A few years ago you could hardly give them away. Can anyone explain that?

As my Dad says 'there is no such thing as a free lunch'. Everything is about sacrifice and consequences in this life and that includes this hobby. Beware the re-re! [8-|]

 

My hero![}]

Also well said!

 

Grtz Dee.

[Singapore_959]

 

Having a vintage Tamiya means if you come last in a race it's still COOL! hahaha

 

No, seriously that's not why I race only old cars. No really; it's not.  ...could it be? No, surely not! but then, come to think of it.......no..  hahahahaha!  [] [] [] [] ROFLMAO

 

Ah, come on >  being a collector surely only really means YOU get SOME SORT OF pleasure out of having more than a couple of the things.  

 

Regardless if it is visual, memory lane, status, thrill of chasing hard to get etc.

 Who cares if it's a re-re?  Only you do. You know when you buy or sell what it is and will value it accordingly.

 

It's all cool []

[Jak Rizzo]

All I can say is thank god for the re releases. Without them I wouldn't have any "real" Tamiyas.

Coming from a childhood where all my Father would buy me is a Nikko Turbo (Panther) buggy as the Tamiya's were too expensive, I now have 2 frogs, 1 runner & one in the box to build on a rainy day, weirdly enough, when my father saw the Frog, he wanted one, so I bought him one too! Strange turn of events!

Then just last week I was showing him an old Tamiya catalogue & explaining that the Subaru brat has the same chassis as the Frog & I couldn't see why Tamiya couldn't pump those out as well. Then I saw this post....................

I rang my Father right away & told him, he immediatly asked when can I order one for him, we want the re release of the Beetle as well! I might be 20 years too late but when I lifted the lid off the box of my Frog & saw Tamiya 1983 stamped in the lexan shell, the Nikko Turbo buggy that I got for Xmas instead of the Frog all those years ago was forgotten.

Thank u Tamiya!

regards

Jak

[mobias]

I can kinda understand those who feel a car has more importance to them if they know there are fewer of them about, that's only natural after all. But on the other hand I think they're taking things a bit to seriously, not that people shouldn't take their hobby seriously but there are levels...

There seem to be so few reasons why Tamiya shouldn't continue with the re-re's and so many, many more why they should. And if you ask me Tamiya have realised that, possibly after a years worth of feedback courtesy of this forum, and so have thankfully decided to continue them.

Now I'm holding out for a Monster Beetle although I still doubt they'll re-re any of the 80's 4X4 buggies.

 

[clarkey]

jak rizzo i couldnt agree more i didnt have my first tamiya until the age of around 14 when i was younger i too had a turbo panther and loved it and drove it to death see my showroom homepage for the pic of me driving it and looking daft too.

[scrapperboy]

There is something i still cant digest. If you dislike re-re's, then dont buy them, or their parts. If you want to restore a vintage piece, keep looking for vintage parts on evil-bay. Use original parts to restore original kits.

If I'm allowed to digress a bit here, it happens I collect Transformers too, and the re-re's in that line are very much welcomed. The vintage pieces don't lose their collectable value. They do lose a portion of their monetary value. But hey, we don't collect for the money do we? []

Collecting is the art of hoarding trivial stuff, be it vintage or re-re.

[Wandy]

Another thing to take into consideration is the old "can they, cant they" argument with regard to re-releasing cars where the licence to produce a model that is based on a full size vehicle from the 1980's might not be available to Tamiya anymore. Surely the re-release and identical marketing of the Subaru Brat has shown that there would be no such problems for the company to re-issue models such as the Ford Ranger, Blackfoot, Monster Beetle and dare I say it the Sand Scorcher.

So if anyone wants to continue a discussion about why a car wont get a re-re just dont drag up the old "licence" argument. []

[Jak Rizzo]

That is such a cool photo. Mine was red. I also found a perfect 1/16th scale plastic vw shell at the local supermarket at the time so mine looked like a mini Scorcher. All my mates had Hornets, Frogs, Wild Willies & Wild Ones so I was the odd one out.

I loved it at the time & it flew until it got near my mates Tamiya;s then it looked slow.

I'm still putting vw shells on rc cars, can't help myself.

http://tamiyaclub.com/CS/forums/thread/191477.aspx

regards

Jak

 

[Old Busted Hotness]

It IS possible to be a collector without owning any vintage models []

"Tamiya collectors" can enjoy the re-re Brat. "Vintage collectors" can continue to track down and restore knackered old originals. Fanatics will want one of each, Philistines will restore originals with re-re parts.

[clarkey]

yes they did seem quick back then i remember my friend had a green nikko buggy that was just like the mantaray and the shell was a straight swap so i ran that for a while then went for the black look with the aid of some terrible youth painting dont know what happened to it after that lost in the passage of time i guess

[DJTheo]

Here are some pics which extinguish the conspiracy theories [] http://tamiyaclub.com/CS/forums/thread/191821.aspx

Cheers 

[DeeMiller]

Here are some pics which extinguish the conspiracy theories [] http://tamiyaclub.com/CS/forums/thread/191821.aspx

Cheers 

Yes, I know...I got an email from Time Tunnel Models: They are in the conspiracy too, sorry to disappoint you.

I'm confused here:

I thought TamTechs were small (1/24).

So why is it that this TamTech looks the same size as the vintage 1/12 934?

Or is it the 1/10 30-anniversary version?

If so, the wheels look very alike the ones on the TamTechs then...[*-)]

Help me out here!

EDIT: Found answer: It's a 1/12 TamTech...duh...

 

Grtz Dee.

[Mad Ax]

Surely the re-release and identical marketing of

the Subaru Brat has shown that there would be no such problems for the

company to re-issue models such as the Ford Ranger, Blackfoot, Monster

Beetle and dare I say it the Sand Scorcher.So if anyone wants to

continue a discussion about why a car wont get a re-re just dont drag

up the old "licence" argument. []

This isn't really a

valid argument.  Before releasing a direct copy of ANY copyrighted

design, Tamiya must seek permission ("licence") from the holder of that

copyright.  As I understand, that licence may be granted

indefinately, or it may be time-limited.  When the time limit has

expired, Tamiya must re-apply for permission from the copyright holder.

Also

the licence may be "free" (i.e. Tamiya can make as many copies as they

like free of charge), or it may have an initial cost (say so many

thousand dollars up-front) or it may have a fee based on the number of

copies produced (like royalties on a music CD - say a dollar for every

shell sold).  Obviously, Tamiya need to decide whether they can

financially recoup the losses of this fee when during their production

run.  If not, the shell does not get made.

For vehicles such as the Brat, maybe Tamiya had an unlimited

licence to produce as many shells as they liked - or maybe they

re-applied to Subaru and were granted a new licence on affordable

terms.  Since the days of the Imprezza WRX, Subaru have had a huge

global following and they are aware of their public image. 

Allowing Tamiya to make high-quality reproductions of their old designs

can only work in their favour.

However, other companies (such as

Ford, for example) may be less interested in granting licences for

things like the Ranger shell.  Because Ford have a major drive to

sell their current trucks, they may only want their newest shells

depicted on RC products (like the F350 Hi-Lift), because this helps get

their new designs into the public eye and thus helps to sell more

trucks.  Allowing Tamiya to sell an old design like the Ranger

might work against their sales strategy.  If this is the case,

they may refuse to grant a licence.  Alternatively, they might

want a huge fee for the licence.

Alternatively still, some

companies may have agreed sole licence with another company.  This

means that, for example, they may have struck a deal with Burago for a

1/10 scale die-cast Ranger which forbids them from agreeing another

1/10 scale deal with any other model manufacturer.

There are

alternatives to seeking licence - Tamiya got away with this on the

Pumpkin and Clod Buster by changing box descriptions and castings to

remove copyrighted logos.  However, this sort of thing is

expensive because it requires new castings to be made and means that

any old stock must be destroyed.  This was obviously financially

viable for the Clod, since it was still a "current" model when the

Chevy logo was removed; and also they deemed it worthwhile for the

Pumpkin - but doesn't mean it can be used for every eventuality. 

Just

because Tamiya are able to reproduce the Brat shell and others, doesn't

mean they are free to re-release any old shell they feel like.

Hope that helps... [] 

[monster_beetle]

Here are some pics which extinguish the conspiracy theories [] http://tamiyaclub.com/CS/forums/thread/191821.aspx

Cheers 

Which conspiracy theories?

[DJTheo]

This isn't really a

valid argument.  Before releasing a direct copy of ANY copyrighted

design, Tamiya must seek permission ("licence") from the holder of that

copyright.  As I understand, that licence may be granted

indefinately, or it may be time-limited.  When the time limit has

expired, Tamiya must re-apply for permission from the copyright holder.

Also

the licence may be "free" (i.e. Tamiya can make as many copies as they

like free of charge), or it may have an initial cost (say so many

thousand dollars up-front) or it may have a fee based on the number of

copies produced (like royalties on a music CD - say a dollar for every

shell sold).  Obviously, Tamiya need to decide whether they can

financially recoup the losses of this fee when during their production

run.  If not, the shell does not get made.

For vehicles such as the Brat, maybe Tamiya had an unlimited

licence to produce as many shells as they liked - or maybe they

re-applied to Subaru and were granted a new licence on affordable

terms.  Since the days of the Imprezza WRX, Subaru have had a huge

global following and they are aware of their public image. 

Allowing Tamiya to make high-quality reproductions of their old designs

can only work in their favour.

However, other companies (such as

Ford, for example) may be less interested in granting licences for

things like the Ranger shell.  Because Ford have a major drive to

sell their current trucks, they may only want their newest shells

depicted on RC products (like the F350 Hi-Lift), because this helps get

their new designs into the public eye and thus helps to sell more

trucks.  Allowing Tamiya to sell an old design like the Ranger

might work against their sales strategy.  If this is the case,

they may refuse to grant a licence.  Alternatively, they might

want a huge fee for the licence.

Alternatively still, some

companies may have agreed sole licence with another company.  This

means that, for example, they may have struck a deal with Burago for a

1/10 scale die-cast Ranger which forbids them from agreeing another

1/10 scale deal with any other model manufacturer.

There are

alternatives to seeking licence - Tamiya got away with this on the

Pumpkin and Clod Buster by changing box descriptions and castings to

remove copyrighted logos.  However, this sort of thing is

expensive because it requires new castings to be made and means that

any old stock must be destroyed.  This was obviously financially

viable for the Clod, since it was still a "current" model when the

Chevy logo was removed; and also they deemed it worthwhile for the

Pumpkin - but doesn't mean it can be used for every eventuality. 

Just

because Tamiya are able to reproduce the Brat shell and others, doesn't

mean they are free to re-release any old shell they feel like.

Hope that helps... [] 

Spot on, excellent post! [Y]

Cheers 

[DJTheo]

Here are some pics which extinguish the conspiracy theories [] http://tamiyaclub.com/CS/forums/thread/191821.aspx

Cheers 

Which conspiracy theories?

Dee made some jokes before that the Brat re-release is fake news and just a big conspiracy of everyone supporting it.

Cheers 

[DJTheo]

I'm confused here:

 

I thought TamTechs were small (1/24).

So why is it that this TamTech looks the same size as the vintage 1/12 934?

Or is it the 1/10 30-anniversary version?

If so, the wheels look very alike the ones on the TamTechs then...[*-)]

Help me out here!

EDIT: Found answer: It's a 1/12 TamTech...duh...

 

Grtz Dee.

Only the original 80s Tamtechs where 1:24, the new TamTechGear buggies are 1:16 and the new TTG on road chassis 1:12

Cheers

[DeeMiller]

Only the original 80s Tamtechs where 1:24, the new TamTechGear buggies are 1:16 and the new TTG on road chassis 1:12

Cheers

Thx, nice to know![Y]

Hmm, Tamiya tanks are 1/16 too....hmmm....[^o)]

 

Grtz Dee.