Some custom work of my own ! !

[federx]

Federx - I think thats really an unfair post, I personally dont think

we should discourage people from trying to improve themselves, just

need a little pointer to whats more achieveable.

 

i only wanted to be realistic with the 3d modelling.

if you model something only for your pleasure is one thing.

but if you must design something that somebody else must use to get a real object i think is quite different.

i do not want to discourage him, but maybe is more useful to get some spares, some designs and try to modify them, improve.

when you get some skills you can cat a brand new object, but i think it deserves a good experience, or not?!

my "i have a dream post" is something maybe unrealistic too, so i didn't want to offend anybody

 

[Dr.Robotnik]

Hi Joel,

First of all good luck with this project. I think first of all you need a plan of action. You are about to learn a lot of skills and it won't be easy so slow and steady wins the race. A full custom car would be ideal for you I guess  from what you've written, however I think its unrealistic.

My advice to you would be to make an on-road pan car like Mike T said for simplicity's sake. Ideally I'd guess you should buy a donner car from ebay and look to retro-fit a new chassis. This would allow you to quickely select sheet chassis material and get an idea about simple CAD drawing and your actual access to manufacturing from your brother. After assembling your donner car on a custom chassis it'll be easier to then eye up what other modifications you could do.

For a road car for a chassis I'd expect to use something like;

1.5mm to 3mm sheet, this could either be aluminium (many different types available but most will do e.g. a road sign), GRP or FRP.

For an off-road chassis I'd expect to use something like;

2mm to 4mm sheet for a single deck and maybe down to 1.5mm if you add another deck. Using the same materials as above.

To gain experience in what to use just see what Tamiya has used in the past. For example an SRB used thin GRP sheet and the chassis was to flexible. Hop-up companies then made chassis of about 1/8 inch or approx 3mm thick. You should look into material properties to gain an understanding of what you'd want out of your chassis material and what is available. However to make a complete custom off-road car would be a massive undertaking so if I were you I'd look at adapting all the spares or parts of your favourite cars into one homologation special on your own custom chassis.

For CAD programs, I have used all these and more through work and anyone is a great starter CAD package and by that I just mean simple to use in comparison to say Catia with lots of online tutorials and support;

Solid Works

Pro-E

Auto-CAD

Thats about it I guess, but good luck, don't be put off, everyone has to start somewhere. Please post lots of pics of your progress and just focus on this project until its culmination.

Cheers

Dr. Robotnik

P.S. Thanks to whoever posted Grahoo's showroom, check it out its got some great customs e.g. a Hornet and Dark Impact combined as one car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[TWINSET]

Slow right down chap and REALLY think about what you want to make, you've gone from drive belts to pan chassis to TLT axles in about 3 posts!

One thing I think I will have problems with on any car I make (and probably the most easy) are the axles/drive shafts. I think I will have trouble getting them mounted on and also having the wheels attached (but I think I would probably have hex fitting wheels so I could just use some tamiya hex wheel holders)

I would go down the A3 pad and pencil route for a while if I were you fella, then draw up the good bits if there are any.

Try to stick to very simple designs; they'll be easier to design, easier to make and cheaper too.

[terry.sc]

my first post said that I would be buying the materiel's form here - http://www.hillfoot.com/   not quite B&Q

Just to point out to you that Hillfoot are steel stockholders. All they supply are various types of carbon and alloy steel. Also machines set up for working with metals are not set up for working with carbon as they use different cutters and cooling fluids, so you might be stuck with just alloy parts.

Acrylic (plexiglas, perspex, etc.) is too brittle. Both Grahoo and I use 6mm thick polycarbonate sheet to make plastic parts from. The rear pod in my F1 is all hand machined in polycarbonate to help with cooling.

If you want to have a go at building your own pan car I usually build my own, see here for my latest one

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...069&sid=297

The Associated front end on it is the standard front end for pan cars and makes it easy to put together.

Alternatively you could start off making parts for your TA05. Shock mounts would be easy, a new chassis and alloy gearboxes like the TRF415 would look good and you have the parts already to take the measurements from.

Can't help with the CAD work though, everything I've done is cut or machined by hand. BTW all of Grahoos work is also done by hand, no CAD involved.

[MikeT]

Terry, your hand-built Pan-Car is awesome, that's what i was thinking of when i suggested it to Joel, but i couldn't remember who built it!

Foam bumper looks abit Ghetto Fabulous though

Mike

[InetRC]

i took 2 full years to learn how to 3d drawing (quite) properly.... i think that this project is quite unrealistc 

That's funny, because it took me all of a week to learn the basics of CAD and then CNC to produce our first parts and less than two months to set up the company I own that many are familiar with called InetRC.com - so to blatantly call Joel's project unrealistic based soley on your learning curve may be 'unrealistic' in itself. If someone sets their mind to it and has a natural gift I'm certain whatever they set their minds to can become reality. Joel's not looking to become the automotive world's next CAD designer here so why flat out discourage him instead of helping him start off with the basics. Who knows, maybe he might end up BEING the automotive world's next CAD designer.

Joel, using a CAD program like BobCAD (which has a free trial - go to www.bobcad.com) should help you with your 2D drawings that a laser cutter would deal with (you won't need 3D for a laser cutter or your pan chassis). Saving the file as a DXF format should give your brother what he needs. Otherwise, BobCAD can also generate CNC code and your brother can then massage that for his machine.

The main thing though is what the last several posts have keyed in on and I can't agree more with them - slow down. Figure out what YOU want. A pan chassis is a good start because it is 2D and learning CAD is much easier in 2D than 3D. 

WHatever you decide to do, heed the advice given from some of the good folks here - slow down, figure out what you want to do, plan it out then follow the plan. Otherwise, you're just going to spin your wheels and frustrate yourself.

 -Alex

 

[acorn]

To widen this conversation out a bit:

What are we calling 'hand built'?

The reason I ask is that so far this thread had talked about CNC and pan car modification. I for example made a twin deck chassis for my old F189. Later I added double wish bone front suspension. It still had the tamiya's rear pod and front up rights. All of it was built by hand. Ie, saws, files, drills etc. But I'd never call it a hand built car. Had I hand machined the front up rights and rear gearbox and diff, and made the wheels, then maybe.

But is CNC cutting/routing some ally or fibre plate really a 'hand built ' car? Surely thats just a chassis replacement. And you can do that with any number of cars.

As for CNC, thats not exactly hand built its it? Anyone can do a 3d drawing, and load that in to a comercial CNC machine. Not exactly a work of skill is it?

Sure, the diff and tyres are hard to make, and I'll let you all off screw and nut making, but surely there is more to a 'hand built' car than replacing a pan chassis? Or is my Vanquish with alloy chassis plates now a hand built car?

Dont get me wrong, its hard enough making a new chassis, and the best way to start this sort of project it to replace parts on an existing model with ones own handy work. But I do raise the odd eyebrow when I see a car claimed to be hand made and see it has a stock front end, stock rear end, stock wheels, stock shock, stock diff, etc.

 So er, how are we defining a hand build car?

 

 

[federx]

i took 2 full years to learn how to 3d drawing (quite) properly.... i think that this project is quite unrealistc 

That's funny, because it took me all of a week to learn the basics of CAD and then CNC to produce our first parts and less than two months to set up the company I own that many are familiar with called InetRC.com - so to blatantly call Joel's project unrealistic based soley on your learning curve may be 'unrealistic' in itself. If someone sets their mind to it and has a natural gift I'm certain whatever they set their minds to can become reality. Joel's not looking to become the automotive world's next CAD designer here so why flat out discourage him instead of helping him start off with the basics. Who knows, maybe he might end up BEING the automotive world's next CAD designer.

 

 

if you're such a great genius of design, engineering and  entrepeneur world i'm very happy for you.

next step try to become God, it's easy.

i know CAD basics are easy but now try to get a Catia project. we were talking about 3d, not 2d in that post.

 

[Guest joelvardy]

First I would like to thank you for all of your replies to me on this subject!!!

I would like to say that I have been looking into doing a custom car for about 5mths and over that time I had decided a pan car would be best.

I merely chucked in the idea of a TLT as I had seen many of them that had got custom chassis’s.

When I see pan cars I always see them as being the most simple of cars, they are really just a flat plate with the uprights at the front and the solid axle mounted at the back!

I think that a pan car will be the best option for me as it will be my first.

I would like to say something that I had really not said because I wanted to be independent! My brother says that he will make me the plans in CAD as long as I give him the measurements I just want to learn the basics of CAD drawing also. Sorry if I made out that I would be creating the plans myself.

My intention as to use tamiya parts in the build to keep things simple, but I don’t want to just put on a tamiya rear assembly onto my chassis. I would much rather use the tamiya axles and uprights and use my own motor mount (if you get what I mean.)

So you might not say that it is my custom car but it will be good enough for me!

PLAN  << so far

Chassis plate - 2mm light aluminium

Chassis length - 300mm

Chassis width - 145mm (at widest point)

I want to mill my own motor and axel mount from aluminium,

Here is a little plan I made just to show the basic layout!

[MikeT]

Joel, only having that narrow bit in the middle will give you alot of torsion-flex in the chassis, you might want to make it the same width all the way down, then run the battery in a saddle pack configuration, and put the ESC and RX infront of the battery.

Mike

[MikeT]

Also, are you not having rear suspension?

[Guest joelvardy]

thanks mikeT

I was undecided on having a double deck configuration or having the chassis the same width all the way down! ???

I will probably have a chassis that is the same width all the way down or at least wider that ion the pic above.

I am making a plan for the suspension set up now. I couldn't show suspension on the pic above, sorry

Thanks for your help

Joel

[acorn]

Having a 'twisty' chassis can act like a crude form of suspension. Although firmly strapping the battery down will stiffen the chassis alot.

[MikeT]

Acorn, that is VERY crude, LOL.

Joel, i think you'd be better off making the chassis wider to remove chassis flex, and having a floating rear pod, like on Terry.SC's.

Mike

[InetRC]

Federx - even 3D for simple RC parts doesn't take a genius... our latest products (aluminum axle cases for the TLT and the TXT) were done in 3D using AutoCAD and CNC coded in a couple of days and it certainly wasn't rocket science. In fact, the biggest time expense was in optimizing the CNC code. So give me a break. I doubt it would take anyone with half way decent mechanical skills 2 years to learn how to use CAD software and render simple RC parts, even in 3D.

Sorry for hijacking the thread Joel - it just disgruntles me to no end when people discourage others with blatant statements like that and offer no constructive alternatives.

-Alex

 

[federx]

give me a break??? i never said anything to you.[:^)]

i even like a lot your ford 350 stuff! []

i didn't want to discurage with blatant statements as you say, but only put some things in perspective.

his brother can do the computer stuff , so no problems at all.... hope he can get what he wants.

 

 

[Guest joelvardy]

guys, guys!!!

C'mon, I don't want to start an argument!

I am currently on the dining room table with a A3 pad pencil and a rubber! lol

Will scan in my designs later!

Joel

[mymonsterbeetleisbroken]

I am currently on the dining room table with a A3 pad pencil and a rubber! lol

 

Go for it mate! Thats one of my favorite ways of comming up with ideas!

Have you got the chance to go for a technical drawing course? I did tech drawing as part of my BTEC National at college. It certainly teaches you lots of new skills. You can only do so much with CAD, in my opinion you cant beat a bit of paper for some pure creativness though [H]

 

[Guest joelvardy]

well I will start having to think about GCSE courses in Jan 07 so I will probably go on a design course and will certainly be on the tech course I might also go on the physics for my extra science unit! hmm. (to be honest I haven't decided  - need to be told my options really)

Not on the subject but I am terrified of Englisher (well you lot have encountered how truly awfully it is lol)

I will scan the plans from the dining table in tomorow as I cant see my scanner at the moment lol.

On the subject though I would like to know if I have to have suspension as I have seen a few without it and would like to keep things simple???

Do any of you have some links to some good showrooms showing pan car chassis's and also any web sites showing pan car chassis's as it is an impossible fete looking through showrooms to find any???

Joel

[BiggusDitchus]

Joel, the problem I see is that you are imagining a pan car to be simple... simpler than a tourer they are, but they are far from simple. Dont get me wrong I dont think its a bad basic idea. They have quite a complex rear suspension set up, using pivots, shocks etc.  You are doing the right thing by wanting to look at other pan cars.

 Search the web for the likes of..

Trinity Switchblade, associated rc12, etc

I found these when I looked.

 Can I make a suggestion, how about a basic car, maybe designed for a beginner, similar lines to a mardave v12?? but with your own twist.

[terry.sc]

Pan cars used to be a lot simpler, before we needed to be able to adjust everything. The RC12i won a world championships

http://www.geocities.jp/kamiaraya5881/assorc12i.html

[rajicon]

On the site terry.sc mentioned there is a Kyosho Phantom E4WD (

http://www.geocities.jp/kamiaraya5881/1stfantom1st.html ).

4wd,

maybe use a TA03 belt and the pulleys. Also has a double deck. Looks

simple yet a bit of planning involved, all of which could introduce you

to ideas to use later on.

Copy some axles and modify them a

little maybe. You could even make it accept 1/10 touring car bodies

with a bit of inspiration from the F103GT,because on the TA03 the

pulleys are place at 257mm apart, the same as the wheelbase. No majorly

complicated designing, just a lot of forward thinking. 

[Madmat]

I am currently on the dining room table with a A3 pad pencil and a rubber! lol

 

That's how i used to design aswell! I could spend hours on end just drawing stuff! I like to plan out projects though by just doing rough sketches then draw all the parts with measurements and then draw them in autocad!

 If you want some inspiration have a look at Thorbobs website, The ultimate custom project builder i can think of www.thorbob.com. Thor gave me more inspiration than i knew what to do with!

 

[Guest joelvardy]

sorry I've been neglecting the thread,

I have started being nocturnal as it is much more easy to work when everyone is asleep. it's now 03:00 and I'm not tired but I will have to go to bed soon!

I have been drawing plans and I don't think I will have rear suspension. as that is the most complex part and also the tires will act as suspension (OK then I will tell the truth, I cant be bothered and don't want to ask to much of my bro.)

I will update again tomorow, sorry for the little updates but I can hardly tell you a 500 word paragraph over a few lines and measurements on some paper! lol

Talk soon, Joel