Jugg shocks

[Tamiya_addict]

I'm thinking about purchasing some Jugg shocks for the TXT. How does the shock pivot (conically) about the screw that runs through the shock pivot eye?

Does one use one of those little things that looks like this... (rotate your head 90 degrees!) that permits the use of a tapping screw?

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These silvery thingos come with CVA mini shocks and are used with screws, i.l.o. ball studs. I guess brass ball studs can't be used as the shocks are aluminium (no give). The truck has so much axle articulation that screws can't be used to lock the shock bodies against the chassis/axle mounts.

Thanks, Mike.

[mymonsterbeetleisbroken]

The shock doesnt pivot much in the way you want it too.

The shocks were designed for a truck which doesnt have much suspension travel (jugg only articulates around 1.5 inches per axel! on the tlt-1 they are canterlevered so they dont need to pivot outwards.

The shocks mount using a bolt and a brass sleeve in true old school tamiya fashion []

the shock pivot eye is a straight hole, so it doesnt except a ball type connector without custom machining the hole, or having loads of slop by not using the brass sleeve. the movement of the shock wouldn't help much with the trucks articulation.

The other end of the shock is plastic, and uses a standard ball connector.

The stock juggy shocks are plastic and have no damping.

Using jugg shocks on a txt-1 will lower the truck by 10mm at the front and 15 mm at the rear, when using the stock mounting positions.

 

[Tamiya_addict]

Thanks MMBIB,

I should have clarified that I'm looking at the 53369 alloy TLT-1 shocks that must have been a hop-up for the Jugg. As I can't use ball connectors with alloy bodies shocks, I'm gathering I can't really use them on the TXT-1. And therefore may have to look to plastic bodied shocks. Yuck. Or use the stock cantilever system. []

[TWINSET]

The stock return springs on 'TLT' shocks aren't too great, even worse through a cantilever I would think?

Don't forget the Jugg has leaf springs for part of it's suspension.

 

Would it be possible to use a bit of fuel tubing as a pivot surface on the top end?

 

 

 

 

 

What length of shock are you looking for eye-to-eye?

 

[Tamiya_addict]

I had a closeup look at the F350. It uses what seem to be o-rings between the mounting screw and aluminium shock body eye - same as you've shown. This provides some conical pivoting for the shock. No reason this won't work for the TXT-1 also, with Jugg shocks. As I haven't built the TXT-1 yet (chassis is at anodiser's) I don't know how much eye to eye distance I want, but I do want to lower the truck over the stock setup; say 10mm.

Mike 

[TWINSET]

So are you doing away with the cantilevers and just going from chassis to axles with the shocks?

[mymonsterbeetleisbroken]

hey Mike.

I thought i'd make use of my trucks and take a few pics that might help you with the project:

Heres a High Lift shock assembly, alongside a juggernaut hop up shock. The high lift does indeed use O rings, these are to stop the shock moving side to side in its mountings. But the "up and down" slop is eliminated using a ball type pivot -

 

The high lift shock pivot hole is larger in diametre than the juggernaut one. 

 

The high lift ball connecting part does not fit into the hole in the juggernaut shock, so O rings alone will not work as they do on the high lift.

Twinsets concept works fine though []

This is how the juggernaut shocks mount on the juggernaut (note: the leaf springs do most of the work, and there is little articualtion with this chassis!):

 

This is how High lift shocks mount:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/getuserimage.asp?t=&id=img2088_13012007153420_5.jpg' alt='getuserimage.asp?t=&id=img2088_13012007153420_5.jpg'>

Let us know how you get on with the truck!  

[Tamiya_addict]

Twinset, yes I was thinking of ditching the cantilever system, where the direct link from the chassis to axle would be through dampers/shocks. Although cantilever systems are great for articulation angle, the trucks wallow about because of the wheel rates (wheel end to shock ratio displacement ratio). I.e. high diplacement at wheel end  = low displacement at shock. Running closer to 1:1 (e.g. axle mounted shocks) provides better body control, and with such I'm wondering if I could ditch those stab bars? The monster truck Samson did run high leverage ratio cantilevered shocks on its rear axle around 2001. Great for launching the truck of cars, but the body control was probably poor and the system subsequently dropped. 

MMBIB, Sincere thanks for taking the effort for the great pics. Nice beverage counter there. Sounds like I'd either have to enlarge the TLT-1 shock eyes to receive the hi-lift ball pivots or use Twinset's idea of tubing - the latter would seem to work. I picked the TLT-1 shock because its diameter is close the prototype, and well it's Tamiya of course! I do like the ride height that these shocks provide. Did you use 2 black zip ties on each arm for the stab bar, or is it something else there I can't recognise? I was chatting to Dan Wyatt who created such truks as Excaliber Clod. He runs twin shocks per corner (ex. Trinitys) and no spring can be seen. I asked him about the truck where he stated he runs TLT-1 springs inside the shock - must be on top of the shock piston. So the shocks looks very similar to the prototype, but work via a spring. It would be pretty cool to have an air charged RC shock, as per the prototype to provide the spring rate. Wouldn't be supple, but it would be realistic. 

As a side note does anyone run foam inserts inside their TXT-1 tyres? New Era did offer them but I'm sure some can be homemade. This would reduce the tyre contact patch surface area = lower torque servos.

[mymonsterbeetleisbroken]

Not a problem []

yes, i used 2 black zip ties on the stabilizers. i thought they looked a little less rubbish when compared with the big white ones tamiya provide!

I'll be ditching the whole setup soon though as i'm going to get the New Era setup - it looks to nice to resist []

The stabilizers on the txt-1 dont make much difference to the articulation. they are to help prevent the torque twist of the chassis - which is a big issue with the txt-1. The whole chassis twists, raising up a front wheel when pulling away, due to the torque of the motors and the soft suspension.

I guess if you can get the jugg shocks hard enough, you could loose the stabilizers. The forces on the shocks will be large though, the truck will try and tear them apart as it accelerates!

I think foam inserts are a good idea for the txt-1, as it lurches quite a lot on the soft clod tyres. Most R/C hobby stores stock foams that should do the job.  

[Tamiya_addict]

Purchased two pairs of 4 TLT-1 shocks off the bay - out with the fuel tubing! Once they arrive the bodies will be anodised in silver and black, and along with the black anodised lightweight TXT-1 chassis (thanks JR-RC), my build will continue. Looking at either reproducing Bigfoot #14, Nitemare or Anger Management, with a scale V8 in the back.

Personally I don't appreciate the generic TXT-1 body styling so both bodies and decal set are on ebay. Prefer the proto look typical of Tamiya. Otherwise I'd be drivin' the Losi's!

Does anyone make a good F350 xtra cab? I prefer not the Proline (cowl too high), though the Parma Bigfoot Chromalusion looks okay (bad grill stickers). As the real monster trucks use fibreglass, Lexan is the better choice than ABS (hi-lift body - between the lines).

[mymonsterbeetleisbroken]

Sounds like its going to be an awsome machine when its finished!

I've got a franklin mint scale model of bigfoot 14, its in my showroom:

 

Unless you've got access to some good chassis pics of the real thing, i could take some pictures of the models chassis for refrence?

Its got a full tube frame under the shell - just a shame it isn't an r/c model [] 

 

[Tamiya_addict]

No one makes a tube chassis for the TXT-1. New Era advised me that their Jugg tube chassis is not compatible. I'm sure it could be, but these are expensive and the roll cage limits how low the body can be mounted. So I will customise my TXT-1 chassis to resemble that of Bigfoot #14 (Chromalusion). Will post a pic in due course. Mike.

[mobias]

I do love the scale look of having the shocks going from the axle vertically to the chassis but you're crawling days are over if you go for this set up, its much more rigid. Great for high speed though.

[Tamiya_addict]

I set up 2 & 4 Jugg shocks per corner. What do people think?? The centre two would do the work, with springs inside the damper body, on top of the piston. The 1&4 shocks would be there just for the looks. The wheel centre is a long way forward, so the shocks nearly hang off the front of the chassis. So I'll probably just go for 2 per corner. Will use the outer most holes on the axle case to mount the lower shock eyes to, or something like that. Cheers, Mike.

[mymonsterbeetleisbroken]

I think 4 shocks per corner will look really scale, and impressive!

The black chassis looks the business too [H]

Just be carefull that the shocks don't come too close to the tyres. As the suspension articulates, the the tyres will get very close to the shocks as the angle of the axles increases, they may rub on the shocks. You may need a set of wheel widerners - but hopefully the setup will work great without the need for the wheels to be further from the shocks.

Nice work!