My conclusion: Nitro Sucks. Who wants my TNX 5.2 ?

[backtomyroots]

Well, after making a valiant effort at my first Nitro vehicle I have discovered it ain't for me.  Can't get it tuned, don't know how to tune it & been to the LHS 3 times where he is a miracle worker because it works fine for him in the parking lot.  But, as soon as I get home I can't get it going.  I just spent 20 mins trying to get it started [:@].  So, off to the LHS where I am going to get him to have it "ready" so it can be sold.  I managed to get through about 5 tanks and I'm sick of it already.  back to ELECTRIC for me [Y].  You Nitro folks must have a lot of patience !

For Sale soon: One used, finicky, tedious experiment gone wrong !

[3doorpete]

Same with me and my Savage X - pics still in my showroom - but I got the hump with it as well. I'd spend a long time driving to places where it is ok to use it - then spend 1 hour trying to get it to run and brake properly, then have 5 mins of fun and something would break!

Then I'd take it home, fix it - take it out again, and even though NOTHING had been changed, it would somehow be miles out of tune when I used it again!! Same 1 hour trying to get it to run properly.

 I've restored 1:1 cars, so it's not like I don't know what I'm doing, but 2 stroke compression ignition Nitro's are just a pain. If I buy another non-electric it will be a Baja 5B or FG that runs a proper 2 stroke petrol engine.

Still - at least it kept me fit keep running after it to restart the bastid every time it stalled....

Good luck with the sale!

[tupers]

I can only say I feal that you guys cant get on with nitro. My bos showed me how to tune nitro eniges when I was 14 and now I can do them all on my own[]. I think that for perfromance stright of the box nitro is much better and alot of poeple go for them because they like the idea of a big noisey engine, but dont realalise how much work they are to get them working propely. 

Its a shame really because electric is a lot easier to use and with good driving skills a decent equipment electric will keep up this nitro just fine. 

Tupers  

[mymonsterbeetleisbroken]

Darn man thats a shame! It looked like such a good truck in your showroom too.

I bought my first nitro last winter, a tnx 3.0

I figured the weather was too rubbish during the winter months (UK weather sucks) so i left it till March before i pulled all the bits out of the box and gave it a go.

Charged up the nicad for the electric starter, filled her up with fuel, got it all ready.....

Plugged in the starter, the engine turned over - then stopped dead and the fuse in the starter exploded!

The same happened with 2 more fuses - i couldnt believe it!

I basicly gave up and was seriously thinking of selling it. But i decided to take a trip to London to see my uncle, who has played about with nitro cars and heli's for years.

I left the truck with him on saturday night. He phoned my up sunday afternoon to let me know he was running it in!? []

I think some people just have a nack with nitro stuff. He told me the carb had an air bubble inside it, making it impossible to start.

A great tip he taught me was to forget tamiyas fuel priming intructions.

So now before starting the truck, i pull out the fuel line from the carb and pump the fuel untill it spills from the pipe, pinch the end and fit it back to the carb - then pump once more. The truck starts first time now - much better []

Considering it cost me less than a brushless truck motor and esc, its a cheap way to have a quick RC - thats why i like it [] 

 

[Metla]

I bought and sold my first nitro recently, I could tune it, Just couldn't be ******ed doing so, Much rather just plug in a battery and get driving.

 

Plus I found the noise retarded. 

[Mad Ax]

I've never been a fan of nitro.

When I was a kid I used to

look at nitro cars and imagine what it would be like to own one, then

finally saved up enough money to buy a Kyosho Sand Master 2wd buggy.

I

was so excited at having my first "proper" RC car, imagine my

disappointment when my old man told me it was too noisy for the garden

and when every time I ran it something else would break or rattle apart.

I

even got a lift from my old man all the way to a car park where local

lads used to run their nitros.  He left me there with them, 2

minutes in yet another engine mount broke and I hung around for 2 hours

waiting for him to come and pick me up again.

Conclusion: Nitro

sucks.  High-power electric is better, more reliable, easier to

use and doesn't get complaints from neighbours of fathers  

[Drjack]

I'd have to agree. I'm sure nitro cars have their benefits (relatively cheap speed for one) but they're just too much mucking around for my liking. A mate had one about 15 or so years ago and it was VERY fast, although from memory I think it was a 1/10 car with an O.S. four million or something (sorry, I'm not very familiar with O.S. sizes). Anyway, the motor was HUGE. Way too big for the size of the car. Even at quarter throttle, you couldn't keep it straight! But it impressed me nonetheless. It had the "go fast" wow factor. Well, 15 odd years on, I finally went out and bought a nitro car. I'm not even sure of the brand. I think it's BV or GV models??? Anyway it's an onroad car with an O.S. 15 and the blue Pirtek Ford Falcon ute body. You might know the one. The LHS had them going cheap at AUD$250 complete with starter kit, radio, bottle of fuel and "AA" batteries. I couldn't resist! Out of the box it's a nice looking bit of gear. Nice shiny blue alloy chassis, pretty blue oil dampers with yellow springs, 4WD, belt driven, disc brake!!!!!!! ( I'd never owned a nitro car before, remember...) It looked good. All except for the plastic Tupperware looking control arms and hubs. Oh well, it WAS cheap, after all.

The book said to run 5 or 6 tanks of fuel through it to run it in and explained how to tune it. I've been playing around with 1:1 cars all my life so running it in wasn't a big surprise. Did all that no worries, resisting the almost overpowering urge to give it full throttle! My wife and I live in a quiet suburban area and I don't like to annoy the people I have to live next to so I didn't want to run it out on the street too much. The closest decent carpark to drive it in is about 10 km away but we packed the car up (me and a mate) and took our nitros out there to give them a good run. I was still reluctant to give it full throttle, wanting to run it in a bit more so I just putted around just above idle. Drove to the end of the carpark and started turning to come back. The clutch would've JUST been engaging, i was going that slow. TAPPED one of the concrete bollards with the left front wheel, the front end lifted about an inch off the ground and then stopped. No steering..... Walked over to check it out and the lower control arm was broken in half! It had pushed the tire back far enough for the muffler stabiliser to puncture the tire and the tire had actually melted to the muffler!!!! That was my 30 seconds of driving done for the day. Needless to say, I wasn't impressed. My mate was having a ball though, zipping around the place.... until his car sputted and stopped (about a hundred metres away, mind you). Inspection found a broken engine pipe bolt, cracked glo plug washer and an air lock in the fuel line.

So, all in all, I'm sure they're great when they're running right but for me it's just too much hassle to find somewhere to run it, fueling up, getting it running right, putting up with faulty glo plugs, priming, Smoke getting in your eyes nose and mouth 'cause it's getting too much fuel and going home with a headache caused partly by stress but mostly by that god awful high pitched ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZ ZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.................

Call me what you will, I don't care. But I'm stayin' electric, baby!!!! The Pirtek ute is now a shelf queen!!!!!! lol

[markellie]

My brother in-law has 2 nitro's and its quite often painful watching him trying to get them running right, in the last year i have seen them run "right" for 10 minutes tops. Everytime he breaks something (which is everytime he drives them) he seems to need to re-tune them. He has a Duratrax Evader and Warhead, IMHO the biggest waste of money and 2 big piles of junk. I was considering nitro but after watching his efforts and success rate i wouldnt want one for a tenner. I agree if you want Gas/petrol power go 1/5 or even Brushless electric.

[Stefan(2)]

Have to agree for a part of it,

my first nitro was a Kyosho pure-ten ( the old/first series of it i think ),

It might be the luck of the engine, very simple, but, 10 years later it still works fine,

Prime it & couple of pull's on the starter, and , off you go. Easy!

But, ow yes, parts did break ( always ), looking back, and it was fully related to my poor driving skill's,

as it was for me the - first car ever -.

Trying to race it on the local track, keeping up with the pro's did not much good for the parts anyway.

A Pure-Ten is just not ment to try to keep up with Serpent's or HPI's

Work got in the way, left rc for wat it was, then "tamiya" got in my life, but, never started with nitro again,

even that i still owned the car. ( Waiting for restauration as shelfqueen )

Now, just got into 1/5 petrol .. what a blast! , easy to start... easy to tune, and fast.

It is a old Marder with a zenoah engine, and it is still runing fine, even it is a 3e hand car with

quite a life before it.

Going to spend the holiday money on a shiny new FG Jeep wrangler with a load of engine hop-up's.

There adictive!

Have a good day, Stefan

[DCLXVI]

I love my nitro cars when they are working, feels so much better to drive with the sounds and not just the buzzing if an electric motor...

Also, I can bring a can of fuel to the track and just fill'er up so I can run for a day, since there's no power at the track I can't do the same with my batts...

[Rat Fink]

I Have 1 nitro drag bike, 1 Nitro Mini, 2 nitro buggies and 6 nitro savages of various engine configurations.

The biggest problem in tuning is the variation in fuel delivery.

When they run at full bore the pressure in the fuel tanks push the fuel to the carb very effectively so on planes and helis the higher engine revs keep the fuel movin in the right direction. Buggies and cars need the revs to drop to a tickover to diengage the clutch and this starves the engine of fuel. Stall!

I am lucky enough to have a contact called Gary Conley from Conley engineering in the sates and his solution is very simple. A fuel pump!

These little electric pumps stop the fuel starvation as the fuel flow no longer relies on the exhaust presurising the fuel tank, it also means you don't get all of that unburnt oil condensing in your tank and changing your fuel mix.

I also use high nitro fuel which makes ignition easier and deilvers a bit more power I not only buy premixed fuel but also nitro methane by the litre to boost the fuel mix.

As with all things with an engine you need paitience and the time to do some learning.

I love my nitro cars and the advent of the rechargeable electric drill was the best thing that could have happened. 7.2 volt rotostart? Nah! 14.4 volt Elu screw gun does the trick!

Stick with it even though they are a bit unsociable

Gee

[jozza]

I've got a few nitro cars, and can sympathise with a lot of the comments made here. The main difference I've found with the nitros is that if you stick with it, they will give better performance and become more reliable as the engine loosens up, whereas the electric car performs from day 1 as the motor doesn't need running in.

I normally take out my electric cars for unplanned bash days or afternoons; nitros are good fun when they run, but unless you are able to tinker with them they will never give their best, and with electric cars you have a lot more choice of where to run (most of my local green areas have byelaws stopping you running nitro, but no rules for electric cars yet).

I wouldn't agree that Nitro Sucks - it's just a different experience to electric which some people enjoy and others don't. However, I am considering a brushless conversion for my Savage, as I can't be bothered with tuning either

[The soldier bug]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with nitro "backtomyroots". I am going to wait untill october just to learn a few more tips.

[rotor]

I love my nitro Savage 4.6SS

Ran it in and had a ball doing do, then used it over some jumps, mind you said jumps were about 8ft high and i was about another 6ft in the air, broke a steering arm.

Fixed that up and back out again, thing has a decent turn of speed to it as well, so after a bit more mucking about packed it in and went home.

Then after that it just would not start, so sat in the shed for months, took it to my LHS, paid about $200 for a decent tune and other misc parts for it, got it back and its been in the shed for another good 6 months or more collecting dust haha, just never gets used anymore

Some Pics - http://www.stfocus.net/photography/rccars/...acing/savage46/

On the other hand my TG10 is a dream, hasnt been used in well over a year or so now, but when it was working had no problems what so ever, guess thats just Tamiya quality hey Ran great, even when i didnt use it for some months, get it out a few quick pulls on the starter cord and it would come to life with no effort at all, great car that one

Pics - http://www.stfocus.net/photography/rccars/...onroad/dtmmerc/

But for me electric will always win, quiet and easy to use, no mess no fuss, just plug in the battery and away you go, all with a decent turn of speed as well.

But as i write this at work on the graveyard shift :S i have my new one here with me, Losi Micro T - 1/36th scale and that is great fun keeps me entertained when im not reading the forums, or actually doing work haha

Pics - http://www.stfocus.net/photography/rccars/losi/microt/

[SubaruBrattJunkie]

I have more nitro cars in my showroom than electric, why? Because once you learn how to operate them and yes there is a learning curve, they are much quicker and able to go where no electric can. I live in the country and the track I race at doesn't even have electric races any longer. It might be a good idea to go and see a nitro event and talk around to some of the people that are making their cars and trucks do lap after lap day after day and not messing with them all that much. Weather does change the tune a taste but I have several trucks and buggies that never need so much as a tweak of the screws, they were run in properly and were set up correctly to begin with. How come the guy at the LHS can make it run and it gets taken home and won't run, have him show you what to do to make it run, there is a lot of information on the net about trouble shooting and dialing in an engine. I don't have pumps on any of mine but would if they cured a problem, sometimes it is as simple as loose exhaust screws, other times it is more complicated, but a 2 stroke engine is a very simple machine to operate. I race 1/8th scale on road cars, I drive a Serpent 950R and the races last from 1/2 an hour to 2 hours. This means tire changes and fueling the car or pit stops as well as tweaking it if necessary, it also means not hitting the wall or another car which causes more damage due to the speed than anything else. Another thing that has made nitro much more user friendly is the advent of electric start. I also have a quarter scale buggy that runs a Zenoah engine and it is no more difficult to operate than my weed eater. I like electrics as well, but after the first few mins of running really well they start to slow down, I used to race on road electric when there were still races for them, but a 4 or 5 min heat is not the same as a 30 min race. I have the nitro bug and it didn't happen over night or by quitting when I got frustrated which I did. I broke a lot of parts when I was learning but mainly due to bad driving and hitting things at great speeds. I suspect if the first time out with an electric the motor would have burned or the ESC or MASC burned or a dog bone fell out or the diff was too tight or the hundreds of other things that can and do happen to electrics as well we all would have packed her in, you cannot expect one type to behave as another type and not have to understand the differences. Another good trick is to take the engine out of the car, put a prop on it and mount it in a run in stand and tinker with it outside of the car, this is also how I break mine in. Then it is easy to get at the screws etc and see if it is bubbling in the fuel tank or the exhaust manifold is loose, or the carby for that matter. Mind the prop when messing with the screws. Gary Connelly is a legend in fuel engines, his start at over 5,000 dollars US. His V-8 Cobra engine is one of the most sought after and coveted engines ever made, SBJ

[Rat Fink]

Gary Connelly is a legend in fuel engines, his start at over 5,000 dollars US. His V-8 Cobra engine is one of the most sought after and coveted engines ever made, SBJ

Gary is the Guy that advised me to include one of his pumps to help maintain consistant fuel supply and therefore no variation in tuning due to simple throttle operation.

It's OK if you have dialed in your engines and are capeble of delivering the "tweak" but the inclusion of a Conley fuel pump eliviates the moment to moment variations which causes a car to stall if it's running on the edge.

I'll ring him and see if he will write a short mail to me about the issues of Nitro engines which I will post in his name.

He's a nice Guy and very informative. WARNING this may elevate your phone bill.

Gee

[backtomyroots]

How come the guy at the LHS can make it run and it gets taken home and won't run, have him show you what to do to make it run, there is a lot of information on the net about trouble shooting and dialing in an engine.Another good trick is to take the engine out of the car, put a prop on it and mount it in a run in stand and tinker with it outside of the car, this is also how I break mine in.

Beats me, I stood there, watched him, listened to him but just couldn't get it to run like him. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to "tinker with & tune" a nitro - unlike some others. I got frustrated & off it went. Electric - plug & play ! Sounds like a great idea to mount & tinker with the engine. Unless of course you have neighbours nearby . I wasn't expecting nitro to be similar to electric but maybe my nitro experience was unusual. Thanks for the tips though.

[SubaruBrattJunkie]

I realize that is who you were referring to and agree that if anyone knows engines, he is the man, however, I have never had a problem with any of mine or felt like I needed a pump, most of his engines are multi cylinder, however if a pump solved a problem I was having, as I said I would use one. There are very few of us that run bigger scale cars that do not know who Gary is or what he has contributed to the industry, which is why his engines command the price they do and are coveted by their owners. His new engine has built in electric start and replaces the Cobra whose molds and drawings were destroyed in a fire at his foundry. The prospect of not adding more lubricant to the fresh fuel would be a bonus, but in 75 to 100 cc's it doesn't seem to be that big of a problem, another factor is tank mounting, if the out line of the tank is close to level with the intake of the carb the engine will run without any help from the exhaust, in the old days they were all run that way. The exhaust pressure is mainly to get the fuel up to the carb, again bubbles and leaks can cause erratic running just like in a real car, but they are relatively easy to diagnose and repair. You have to admit they are selling an awful lot of them, so I would tend to believe that there are a lot of owners that are having success with them rather than the other way around, there certainly are at the track I run on. Good luck with your's but I would give it another go before I pitched it.

[Rat Fink]

I realize that is who you were referring to and agree that if anyone knows engines, he is the man, however, I have never had a problem with any of mine or felt like I needed a pump, most of his engines are multi cylinder, however if a pump solved a problem I was having, as I said I would use one. There are very few of us that run bigger scale cars that do not know who Gary is or what he has contributed to the industry, which is why his engines command the price they do and are coveted by their owners. His new engine has built in electric start and replaces the Cobra whose molds and drawings were destroyed in a fire at his foundry. The prospect of not adding more lubricant to the fresh fuel would be a bonus, but in 75 to 100 cc's it doesn't seem to be that big of a problem, another factor is tank mounting, if the out line of the tank is close to level with the intake of the carb the engine will run without any help from the exhaust, in the old days they were all run that way. The exhaust pressure is mainly to get the fuel up to the carb, again bubbles and leaks can cause erratic running just like in a real car, but they are relatively easy to diagnose and repair. You have to admit they are selling an awful lot of them, so I would tend to believe that there are a lot of owners that are having success with them rather than the other way around, there certainly are at the track I run on. Good luck with your's but I would give it another go before I pitched it.

It's not a question of "pitching it" it's a question of owners getting as much enjoyment from this hobby without the frutration of lacking the experience in setting an engine up. I run multi engined savages which demand fuel at an alarming rate and the larger tank takes even more to pressurise it, The single engined cars are all set up to run well and are flushed and cleaned before storage, This ,as you know, is the greatest source of frustration, The bleeding thing just wun't bleeding start! Try igniting a bottle of olive oil and see how far you get!

Nitro's need to be stored properly the same as all of my 2 stroke equipment, strimmer, chainsaw, nitro cars, generators. The tanks are drained and the carburettors emptied either by draining or running unil dry.

I use a 12 volt starting box not one of those poxy 1.5 volt batteries on a stalk glow warmers as you have no indication of the performance when you try and start up. this means a further investment which some people refuse to make.

Nitro power takes more prep and greater naintainance, electrics you can pull off the shelf and walk out of the door.

Instead of slating the Nitro powered machines, learn before you buy it that it's not a dark impact or a clodbuster and you need more than a handset and a low powered baterry starter to get the best from this extention of the hobby.

On a slightly different note, Gary Conley built a fully funcional V10 viper engine before his foundry burnt down taking the moulds with it. This one off unit sold for $250,000 and will probably remain as the only one in existance.

RF

[backtomyroots]

Nitro power takes more prep and greater naintainance, electrics you can pull off the shelf and walk out of the door.

Instead of slating the Nitro powered machines, learn before you buy it that it's not a dark impact or a clodbuster and you need more than a handset and a low powered baterry starter to get the best from this extention of the hobby.

RF

Well, I wasn't necessarily slating the entire nitro world - but instead I based this thread on my experience with it. I did some "research" before I bought, however, it just wasn't for me.

[SubaruBrattJunkie]

Ok now I am confused, this started out with nitro sucks because of a single car that cannot be made to run, I said try it again before you quit, then maybe the enjoyment will follow, obliviously it did for me and apparently you. I would agree still and did about multi cylinder applications possibly benefiting from a pump, I wasn't suggesting he quit but try and learn the basics before giving up. I run my tanks dry and pour out what wasn't picked up by the tube leaving no "olive oil" in the tank, so starting the next time is never a problem, the engine gets after run oil and a good cleaning with compressed air and the air cleaner washed and re-oiled, screws checked etc, just part of whats necessary to stop problems from starting. They are an entirely different beast than an electric car but they perform and sound much more like a real vehicle than an electric does. Quite a few of the new and some of the older RTR's have a self diagnostic system that gives an indication of plug and battery condition, you have to buy what is necessary for the hobby or don't go down that road. It is the same with electrics, a cheap ESC will put you on the side in short order, or worse yet the stock MSC which a lot of people won't go to the expense to change either. I would advise the same, to do the research and at least get an idea of what you are in for and said so. How do you get enjoyment from anything without learning how to do it and sometimes it is frustrating, I have had engines that were difficult even though there was no oblivious reason, but I have had electronic failures without good reason as well but the learning was and is part of this I like and mastering any complicated task is gratifying. I went with the opposite opinion of the initial theme of this post, nitro is a little more trouble than electric but the benefits for me are worth it. You need special equipment for it, but the LiPo capable battery charger I have was not a give away either. I use a power panel to start mine and a starter box to save weight and drag on the engine of a puller or an electric, although sometimes when I am being lazy I throw the Tmaxx in the Brat and a quart of fuel and head out using the on-board electric start, it works wonderfully well and is easy. I have a Rody modded RB engine that I cannot get to keep its settings and the set-up drill precedes every run, but it may quit or do it until it dies, tolerances are pretty touchy in these engines especially modified and had it been my first engine I would have been frustrated but I would not have decided that the entire nitro experience sucks. Again they would not be selling them as fast as they can without some reason, I will trade the convenience for the power and noise any time, not to mention run time, I never said they were for everybody although if you can make and build an electric car, there are not too many differences to learn to run fuel. The man said he tried it, didn't want to mess with it, and was going back to electrics, for him that may be the best choice, for me the rigs I run all burn some type of fuel either nitro or petrol, but I would never say that electrics suck because of their proclivities. I didn't read about the single engine getting that much money just that the molds had burned for it as well, I had thought his website said he was going to redo it, maybe he won't, he has enough work to last a couple of lifetimes. The new engine looks and sounds good, the Cobra was a fantastic piece of work, I just wish I could afford one without having to mortgage the house, not to mention the divorce that would happen! SBJ

[Rat Fink]

Well, I wasn't necessarily slating the entire nitro world - but instead I based this thread on my experience with it. I did some "research" before I bought, however, it just wasn't for me.

send it to me and I'll look after it.

RF

Always enough space for "just 1 more"

[backtomyroots]

send it to me and I'll look after it.

RF

Always enough space for "just 1 more"

Too late - my LHS sold it in less than 24 hours . I've aleready spent the funds on some cool things for my High Lift . . . . . . . that's my electric high lift . Cheers for the good discussion everyone.

[Drjack]

I don't think anyone was really slating nitro engines. I researched, asked around, went to track meets, etc before buying mine and I really thought I could get around the noise factor so I bought one. And honestly, I'd only have to spend more time with it to get used to it but personally I just can't be bothered. They're great for going fast, no arguement there, but I'm a big fan of rock crawling and controlled four wheel driving and nitros are just too... hectic, for want of a better word. Horses for courses, hey? Let's be honest now; electric, nitro, steam, jet turbine...... as long as it's RC, who cares? They're ALL COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!