Volkswagen Race Touareg 2 Development Thread

[Wrc action]

Firstly - The links from my showroom arent working as it keep saying that I cannot because its a dynamic page - Anyone got any ideas? as you will see my Forum code knowledges isnt that gr8

Well as some of you may have seen added to my showroom recently is my latest Dakar project. To make a race touareg that I can "race"

The reason for this is that I feel I have developed to the limits my CC-01 based touareg, Even with modifications to its weight distribution with the radio gear right out the back. Along with wheel wideners to help lower the centre of gravity it was still rather cumbersom and unstable. Also the 4 link proved unreliable to rocks and was oftern overwhelmed in some areas of west wittering beach leading to a bouncy and choppy rear end. And finally the attrotious and overly complex steering system that snaps and binds whenever u clip a rock or go into the soft stuff.

So the plan was to look at a 4wd, all independant wheel based touareg that would be more stable and reliable.

Upon looking into this the problems lied in the fact that a Touareg has a wheel base of just under 280mm with the normal touring car wheelbase set at 257mm so it was going to be difficult to find a donor car.

TL01 - No as wheel base and gear ratios are wrong.

TT01 - wheel base and tub is too wide so xc tyres will impact on the tub side.

tb01 - wheel base and tub - also too heavy depsite decent gear ratios of just under 10:1

TA05 - adjustable wheel base so perhaps - gear ratios not sure tho belt drive - hmm stones not ideal.

Tb02 - Wheel base Ratios thin tub should allow wheels movement

So with a TB02 as the donar car it was time to look at getting more ride height out of it.

Rear End

Firstly the removal of the anti-droop screws allowed for full lowering of the rear suspension - This was then supported by some old TB01 shocks (painted blue for some reason - they came in a trade so dnt ask me why) The adujustment was made the cambre settings and also to the upper arm mount points to allow for the Rear bodymounts of a TB01 focus as the touareg shell has a high rear end. Also sorted at the rear end is the wheel wideners from my Exisiting CC-01 based touareg, these effectively lower the centre of gravity as well as filling out the wheel arches in a more realistic manner.

Rear end set up.

With the Shell added.

Front End

Now as you will know getting ride height out of the rear is always much easier than the front end. And the Tb02 is no exception with the overly wide TRF C hubs and the lower arms. So in came the lower arms and C hubs of the TB01 LA suspension set- proven on my rally car these are tough and reliable. The stock TB02 hubs remain with the 5mm stock axles. The front also gets the lovely 'blue' shocks and the wheel wideners to fill out the arches and add stability. However the mounting point is a little vertical for my liking and is actually the point for the stabilizer set when used on the TB01. Does anyone have any hints/tips on drilling into the lower arm further out from the centre of the car and adding a mounting point there to make the shock more lateral.

Front Hybrid Suspension.

With the shell added.

In the Tub

The central tub sees a 16 tooth pinion to 61 spur for max accel and torque along with some old electrics, a sport tuned and a TEU esc. there is also a Tb01 inner shell and some plastic strips to cover up the base - More needs to be done here in order to ensure that its waterproof as I nearly drowned it in shakedown last weekend (20-22 july was a little damp here in pershore).

Performance/Shakedown

So far the performance has been very encouraging with a gd general reliabilty there are issues with the cup joints right on th edge of there range and the need to use some o rings to move the shafts into the optimum position - However overall the model has proved very stable with a hint of understeer into corners on power and oversteer of power - It is very stable when coming off kirbs at high and low speed and tracks straight and true when one side hits the ground first. Unlike the 4 link on the rear of the CC-01.

Future plans

Well hopefully a front steel sump gaurd and some further work on the tub with a new motor - ideas welcome and some heatsinks/fans for the running temperatures. I also plan to work on some details with lights and possibly a new shell as this one has a few cracks on the arches.

Comments and opinons welcome espically with the front end and the mounting point - How will I change this and any ideas about the best point for the shock mount? is there a formula

Final Pictures

Video Link

For reference to the real model in development and performance.

Touareg 2007 feature

Showroom link

Showroom link

cheers for reading - Must be my longest post in months lol.

Ryck

Edited May 25, 2008 by TWINSET
Title changed from "A Touareg That Doesnt Role Over? - Cant Be True"

[Mad Ax]

Interesting post - keep us up to date with how it runs and what changes you have to make over the coming months.

[federx]

very interesting.

i'd like to create something similar on my tb01

[Wrc action]

Firstly a big thanks to mymonsterbeetleisbroken for helping out with how to link in the items from photobucket that will allow me to add more pics of developments.

Mad Ax - Yes I intend to add all of what I do in developments as way of a progress thread that like the one thesuper has for the TA03 rally which now includes the TB01 has proved really helpful to me and Im sure others in working on our rally cars.

I picked up some .5mm mild steel sheet today so plan to start work on a new front skid plate to replace the bottom part of the TB02 front bumper arrangement as this has a detrimental effect on the front approach angle.

Federx - Yes I had thourght about using my Tb01, as its a really tough chassis with good ratios but I found that the tub was too wide for Xc wheels even on the spacers it was very close. Maybe u could use some smaller wheels? or trim the tub.

You could always make some new chassis plates that way you could get the wheel base that u want e.g. 280mm for touareg or 257 for the kamtec bowler.

Just look at the front rod set up if u are using a road car as a donar because I found out last night that what is a few mm out and no problems when on road car lead to some serious misalignments when u are using larger tyres, spacers and have the suspension all jacked up some exagerating the movements.

But all sorted now so she shouldnt pop the drive shafts under hard left cornering lol.

Cheers Ryck

[mymonsterbeetleisbroken]

Those mods look excellent!

[Wrc action]

Update.

Have had a steel front sump gaurd made today. dad made it whilst I did the decals on his M3 around the windows and lights.

It is made from 0.5 mm sheet steel that was brought from B&Q at 4.50 for a 250mm by 500mm sheet.

The Sump has replaced the exisiting lower part of the bumper holder on the TB02 - And gives a better approach angle and impact protection to the rest of the car.

It has been made by first cutting out the plate from a template which was done using the very thin tin found on the whisky tins - Next the crease lines where added in a vice and the holes drilled at the front and for the mounting screws where the original TB02 lower bumper part was installed. The design allows for a spring like action when an impact occurs and In the future I will be able to mount the front of the shell on with Velcro allowing my to transfer the upper part of the sump down and to mount it onto the top of the upper TB02 bumper section for more rigidity.

Appearance -

Close up - Note shape and holes added to lose weight and add to visuals.

Tho need to file down the chassis edge to make it smooth enough to not snag when off road.

Also shown below is the total ground clearance with the machine fully loaded with battery and radio gear - 30mm at the front and the same at the rear should be ample for the off road tracks

I hope now to sort out some new inner protection for the electrics - Anyone any ideas on the best way to seal the plastic covers into the base of the chassis and also add some rear mud flaps.

best regards Ryck

[thesuper]

Wrc action.....wow..this is coming along really well....i really dig the progress and pics.....

30mm of clearance is really good too since it seems to be well within scale.....

when's the next test run?

what sort of things will you look for in the performance?

chance of a video?

[Wrc action]

Wrc action.....wow..this is coming along really well....i really dig the progress and pics.....

30mm of clearance is really good too since it seems to be well within scale.....

when's the next test run?

what sort of things will you look for in the performance?

chance of a video?

Yeah it is comng on well - And I am happy with ground clearance and scale looks - tho the shell is getting on a little bit with cracks on the front arches

Does anyone know where I can get a new shell and decals?

Next test run will most likely be mid week - I hope to take it out for some more off road style running - perhaps a bit of mud as its rather wet round here and also some rocky paths up the local wood -

As for performance well I want enough power to get it up ontop of the terrain - I want it to be stable and reliable off road a bit like the real race touareg.

For the motor I am thinking about a tamiya TZ motor do you have any experiance with these?

A video - that would be nice lol - I will hope to get one some time if I go out with another person who can film then I shall try and get you one.

In the mean time if u need a dakar fix youtube is a gd place to start

cheers Ryck

[Wrc action]

Time for an Update after the touaregs less than convinceing first run at wrexham where it was beset by electrical problems which limited the run to about a 1/3 of a pack in very short stages. Still a decent first appearance which showed promise as well as flaws. Firstly the ball diffs and mainly the front suspension setup with the shock mountings far to inboard. Still at least it didnt role over

Now to the updates today I replaced the TB01 LA lower arms with a modified version of the original TB02 trf lower arms which have better shock mounts in the middle of the arm not the inside.

The reason for these arms not being used first was that they didnt allow for the downtravel required. As thus they needed to be modified with the enlarging to allow the C hubs which are from the TB01 LA set due to there better profile.

See the stock arm (1st pic) and modified arm (2nd pic) which will allow the required down travel.

The modified arm was then put into the suspension as a like for like replacement for the TB01 LA lower arm. I chose to keep the strong non ball stud lower mounts with a smooth screw which is stronger under impact than the ballstud ends.

In the picture below is the comparison of the last gen suspension on the left and the new gen suspension on the right hand side, which shows the better angles of the shocks that should give a more compliant and stable front end as well as using the whole stroke of the shock.

After doing the suspension I sorted out some plastic coverings for the holes in the base of the chassis using soft plastic and held in with hotglue from the hotglue gun. Should keep most of the dust and grit out even if its nt 100% waterproof.

Next to sort out was the problem of the TB02 tub having no switch mounting point. so out with the drills and files to make one in the side of the chassis. Admitedly the swtich head is exposed which is why I have orientated it around to make the on direction be at full backwards so the car wont suddenly cut off due to a stone hitting the switch off.

Next came the fitting of the electrics a TEU-101Bk as it has a full reverse unlike Mtronicks esc that was previously used. Also replaced was the kyosho reciver for a 40mhz acoms one mounted low down behind the esc.

Final changes where the glueing up of the rear diff after removing the balls from the ball diff. Not sure if this will hold up in which case I might just need to get the bolts out :L

comments welcome on the car as are ideas.

cheers Ryck

[Wrc action]

Done some more work today on the Touareg.

First change was to properly sort out the rear diff which is now locked with a big screw through the middle and two smaller screws either side - Was there ever a spool function for the TB02 that could replace this in time and be lighter in the process?

the next update has been to the rear suspension in order to get more travel and hopefully a supple car I have noticed that the rear shocks are not using all there stroke with the long shock ends, As thus I have replace the long ends with short ones and moved the mount point in to mean that full possible downtravel from the suspension before it binds is the same as the full stroke of the shock. This really starts to show its benfits in the fact that the car now has a whole 7mm more uptravel and that the front and rear travel range is now the same making the car much more balanced espically over bumps and undulations.

the old set up with the long ends to the shocks that failed to give the maximum suspension travel.

new ends to the shocks and moving them in has allowed me to get the same downtravel but more uptravel by 7mm

Finally a comparision of the travel both have the shock shaft in the same position but as u can see the new system is higher up already so when an impact arrives it will av more stroke and be more supple over the bumps and crests of a dakar rally.

Unfortinately my test only lasted about 5 minutes as the car twice threw out the rear left driveshaft leaving it 3wd which on the slippery grass left it struggling and spinning a little bit, But was definately very impressive with the suspension leaving the car very flat and stable in need of more than the stock motors power I think.

Two questions that Ive got are that I still need a little more front end grip and was wondering if using the optional alloy suspension mounts in order to angle the front arms in would be of any help? I havent had any experiance with this hotup so am keen to see what you think? alloy ones are on my hotups list but if I can get ones which help the front end be more positive now that I have locked the rear diff would be great.

Also I am looking at possibly get a 2:1 reduction box from Rc4wd in order to get a ratio thats around 16:1 and then install a gt tuned motor that I ahve had great experiances with in my rally car and allow the motor to really rev freely and generate the torque and power without being under to greater load which will shorter the motor and battery life.

Has anyone used this box? and if so what was ure experiance with it or any other RC4wd product?

Cheers Ryck

[Wrc action]

Right some futher small developments with the chassis very stable in its last testing I have looked at how to get by using the wheel wideners as these i fear are putting to higher strain on the axles and I was fearing the day when i clip a rock at the front and snap something big off.

the offending wheel wideners

comparision of the old alloy wheel wideners and the new short blocks + spacers and the new look +2mm offset mesh wheels that match the new touareg ones

comparision - not a major loss and stronger in the long run.

So with the TB02 using the conventional tamiya touring car axles I have replaced them with the longer tamiya wide ones. Next using the longer hubs, spacers and +2 off set wheels on new XC tyres I have managed to get what I think is a stronger solution that is only about 5mm narrower overall at still over 200mm wide.

[thesuper]

Wrc action...i've got more questions than answers......

as for the suspension blocks and low ratio box....i'm not sure of that stuff since i've never really read up on that......

but i've found that if there is understeer.....i try to let off the throttle a bit.....at least with the R it helps TONS......the front end dives and if i turn the wheels while it's diving, it'll corner really well.....

have the arms show any sign of failure due to the removal of the material?

the switch on the side was GENIUS! if i get a TB02 i want to have that......

[CarKing]

Well I would say the blocks would be good for durability and bling, but not exaclty what you are looking for.

Changing the spacers was a good idea. When you put a large wheel spacer like that on the vehicle, it will make it more stable, but will also make it push more. The force that you have to put on the suspension with the larger spacer to get the same amount of suspension travel is a lot more than say the stock spacing. Everytime you put more width into it, the force needed for compression will change slightly.

[Wrc action]

thesuper - Ok I know that those arent options on our TB01's/TA03's which is why I havent delt with it yet either.

Yeah I do try to go into the corner off power and use the power to then flick the rear round and drive it like the real wrc with a rear bias whilst offroad on the gravel. This was just a thought to see if I could make it more balanced and neutral in the handling so its at home of all kinds of tracks equally.

The arms havent shown any sign of failure yet and seem to be holding up just fine, I would first expect them to twist laterally as the material I have taken out goes into the arm. I am thinking about doing the sheetin on the underside of the arms like the real dakar machines nowadays in order to improve the footprint when in the sand and protect the arms from rocks etc. I will post pics of what I mean as I look into it.

Cheers about the switch - took a while to remove the material but I think its a a very elegent solution to what could be a major problem and has been in the past with the nocks of on road rallying breaking the switch of its double sided servo tape.

CarKing - Well Ill go for the same ones as on the car at the mount but in alloy, I am going to get them anyway as they arent to expensive and I think that they will add a lot to the durability of the car. The Bling factor isnt something that I am to fussed with, will be dusty soon enough after a run :L

Yeah I know what u mean to do with the moments and the force applied etc I think that the present setup with the wideraxles and offset wheels is more supple than the existing one which is a bonus to it also being stronger and putting less strain on the wheel hubs and axles.

New parts arrived today to finish the axle change over and new silver/grey mesh wheels which should look gr8. new development shell is also nearly done so hopefully be able to get some pics tomorrow of it all

Cheers Ryck

[thesuper]

Wrc action......what if you used the tie rods for wheel toe in rather than the blocks? or does that do something else?

the twisting of the arms is another thing.....although i'm not sure if you think these arms are just as thick....or less thick than the arms for the TB01 long arm kit. the arms look sturdy.

the plate idea would be awesome! i hadn't thought of that or see it on a dakar vehicle.....you could even have a spot on the plate where there would be a bit of a bevel to protect the leading edge.

i saw what you did with the bumper......do you think you'd bolt or glue that to the underside of the arms?

also, is there not supposed to be a plastic top deck on this chassis?

[Butler]

Picture rich projects threads are great for any forum.

I do quite fancy a tourag. I am going to to check out a near by BMX track at the weekend, if its to rough for my M03, this would be the next logical step. Prefer cars to buggies at the moment...

[Wrc action]

Butler - Yeah pictures are better than a 1000 words as they say. It ran well today, more on that later tho perhaps one of the new xb cayanne's unless u want to take on a project like this as well?

thesuper - the tierods affect the wheel angle and only work on the front, these blocks would be affecting the whole arms angle and the main part would be to effectively add toe in/out to the rear wheels.

the arms on the TB01 are pretty thick and I think i will replace them with alloy ones some in order to add some extra strength and some low down weight which might not be a bad thing as she was very light today in her run,

ran her inside on carpet and then outside on a small patch of rough grass and rocks. Inside was very light and skitisih with the front diff definately subservient to the rear diff. Once outside where the front wheels could gain more grip she did really balance up tho very easy to spin around with the locked rear diff to do a handbrake turn, the stability was very impressive with no problems over the bumpy terrain despite being narrower and at times when the front hooked up more it was really joyous.

I wil snap some shots of the car with its new test shell tomorrow which needs some work to mount properly as I am re-doing the front bodymounts in order to make sure that the front is more impact proof that the last design that snapped in half when hitting a pot :L

also needing to be sorted is the front driveshaft on one side that nearly pops out on a tight corner and binds the wheel up. I might look at spacing the shaft into the centre more or by restricting the overall front turn to not allow it to pop out.

Have you guys had any experiance when running a car with two locked diffs?

Cheers Ryck

[Butler]

I am happy with a project. Enjoy sitting cross legged on the lounge floor in front of the tele with a can of stella in one hand, soldering iron in the other, and my M03 on my lap. Plus I would want a dakar car, not a chelsea tractor.

[Wrc action]

Butler - Dont blame you a chelsea tractor is no fun, Cant get it proper dirty :L

could do something like this a touareg, or a bowler as kamtec do that shell or perhaps a pajero?

any of those take ure fancy?

Cheers Ryck

[Wrc action]

right now finally for some pictures - apologises for the low quality but light here is a preminum its so dull due to all the rain the lights are on in the middle of the day to stop it feeling to grim :L

To start with just some pictures of the chassis as it did its test run, New tyres and wheels and using only 1 little spacer between the wheels and the hubs in order to make it so the nuts go on fully and arent a little thread short so to speak.

As im sure you can see the car is pretty high up with 30mm of ground clearance front and rear and is now running the same springs all around in order to make sure that the ride height isnt slopy at the rear and hopefully get the chassis more balanced like my Tb01.

There is however a couple of problems the main one being shown in the picture below when you turn on full lock the inside wheel turns way more than the outside one pushing the limits of the driveshaft stayin in the cup joint, does anyone have any idea of a solution for this?

Next I fitted the newly painted development shell that is like the real touareg development shell in late 06 for the 2007 (last years) dakar.

the main problem at the moment is with the front body mounts the stock style ones that I were using before are too weak having been broken in the last test run so I have used the front sump gaurd as a temporary solution with the bodyposts for the test run tho I will be looking to do a more permenant solution before the next run.

Finally some shots to show you the current articulation that I am very pleased about and the car is feeling very supple which I think is why it was very stable in the last test run.

finally to thesuper there is an uppper brace of the tb02 but thats a carbon option that i think also needs the carbon braces front and rear that will open up the spur gear arrangement which isnt wat i want to do. however there is a lower carbon brace that i will be getting in order to stiffen up the tub and make the suspension work harder so to speak.

cheers Ryck

[thesuper]

Wrc action....oh man...that toureg shell in those colors looks awesome! very cool looking.....reminds me of a vehicle from some mad max type movie...only not as dilapidated.

as for limiting the steering.....on the TA03...i unthread the turnbuckles about 1 mm on each side and it narrows up the space between the steering rack arms and the gear box.....so when the wheels are turned, the arms tap the box and the steering range ends.....

is there any binding of the upper arms when the suspension drops to it's lowest setting?

also.....since you own a TB02......is it possible to get a 257 mm wheelbase?

i see that a TB02 has a 259 mm wheelbase by default.

but i also see that there are spacers used on the shafts between the arm and the the steering block.

i also see that there are mounts on both the front and rear leading edges of the front lower arms. is this true?

if you need me to move these questions to the other thread....let me know......

[Wrc action]

The super - Yes the shell did come out very well I just need to add the final white decals to it to finish it off - and maybe get some bigger front cuts to be more like the real touareg once I have beefed up and sorted out the front end to be able to take all the knocks that it will no doubt take whilst on a run.

I dont quite get exactly what u mean with the TA03 steering is there any chance of some pics to make sure that what i think you are thinking is what Im thinking (sounds like an old conservative election line :L)

there is no binding in the arms at all something that I am really pleased with - there is still a little clicking from the inside driveshaft which is on the limit of its cup joint tho this will no doubt improve with Uj's and also sorting out the steering with the problems outlined above.

i think it is possible to get a 257mm wheelbase as my TB02 came with an Impreza 03 shell and that fitted superbly so I think that its more than possible - are you thinking about a TB02 for your next rally car project?

The lower arms are spaced out forward and backwards on the metal shaft and using spacers this is how I managed to get the wheelbase of just shy of 280mm for a touareg shell.

yes you can reverse the arms to get the mount on the otherside that is a compromise of the two on the main side -

Cheers Ryck

[thesuper]

Wrc action....so on a TA03....the ball cups are connected with a tie rod. and the cup meets the steering arm (not the knucle but the arm).

on an 03 the arm....at the limit of the steering range bottoms on the side of the gear box.

so on the 03, if you want to limit steering, you unthread the ball cups some (and compensate this by using a ball cup and tie rod connector instead of the carbon steering plate) and rather than add toe in, you will effectively limit the steering range.

i'm not well versed enough in the TB02...but if this is an option....the TB02 seems to have the ability to adjust more things......you could effectively limit the steering.

so here is a shot with a position with the wheel pointing straight ahead.....

and here is one at the limit.....

as for the wheelbase....i was hoping that since tamiya states that the wheelbase for the TB02 is 259 and not 257 (like most other touring cars) that the shell would fit like this.....with the wheels not centered in the wells....

it made me wonder if the TB02 shell was some special shell for 259 mm wheelbases......but i figured that tamiya wouldn't make it that complicated....then again......

i've already put in an order for a TB02 kit. i see things like this. parts support for the TA03 is getting tough. mainly because it's all the more expensive stuff from GPM and so forth.....i can still get tamiya brand parts but it's limited. and honestly...i think i've taken the 03 as far as i can. the real issue with it remains: the shape of the lower arms and the low damper mount on the lower arm mean it's just not as well suited to off road rally. i'm not saying it doesn't work.....it just doesn't work "well". i find myself being very careful about how i drive it.

the TB01 is great too but again....parts are getting hard to get. my bro has tons of TB01 parts spares. so he's set for a while. and that's great. i just don't feel like investing a small fortune on parts that i need to buy in multiples to keep a TB01 of my own rolling. but i will say this....for off road rally....and on road too....the lay out and chassis and suspension are awesome. i love watching my brother's car just glide through the rough stuff with those long arms and the effortlessly attainable ride height.

i started looking at the current stable of cars that tamiya has......the TB02 seems to be the best next option. the belted ones are nice and all but totally exposed. i found a TB02R but...the cost of replacing things like the lighter diff that comes with the R and a few other things that would make it a bit more robust...would be too expensive......

there IS the drift 02 variant but i would like an all black and silver chassis. and the drift version has no body. i also won't need the wheels or tires off of it.

the TB02 with the impreza shell is $150 at tower. add to that the steering set for $35 and the motor mount for $20 and i'm still doing well at $205. none of the other hop ups are going to benefit for rally purposes. i'll add my low friction dampers and it's ready to go. nothing else to spend as it'll be tested lots first to see if it's a viable option for me.

one other thing i considered was that the guys on this site (http://www.mz-racing.net/foto/2007/foto2007.htm) are using the TB02 with covers for off road rally.

you have to check out these links for yourself....the tracks and detail are AMAZING!!!!!

look at this one....snow in the way through sisteron?

[Wrc action]

thesuper - Ahh thats what i thought u where on about. However unfortinately having a quick look at my TB02 that wont be an option for the steering is imbound and the arm doesnt go near the side of the gearbox. However the end of the hub does travel upto the lower arm where there is a supension mounting point as the arms are reverable. As thus I think I have put in some kind of blocker on the arm to limit the movement on the inside wheel whilst turning and prevent the overextension of the driveshaft and cup joint.

I know what you mean with regards the spare parts support for our older chassis and thankfully I am still ok for TB01 spares tho Im looking to stock up soon as they seem to come in batches and we are on the up at the mo I feel with whats on ebay.

yes a stock TB02 is the best option the R has carbon decks front and rear that make it to open in the steering and also the pinion gear and spur gear at the back. You will need to modify the chassis by removal of the material like I have done with my touareg and quite possibly adopt the TB01 LA hub carriers as they are much narrower than the TB02 Trf ones.

I have seen that link before and its is seriously impressive - I really want to know where they get some of the different shells for example that lancer 2005 and the skoda fabia which would make a great change from the run of the mill focus's and impreza's.

Are you planning to run with the ball diffs then? In which case I would advise the purchase of some spare centre screws and perhaps a spare diff to take with you on runs in case the centre screw can break very easily espically when running the diffs stiff and to replace it is a real pain!. however to swap a diff is a simple job of removing the rear diff cover which unlike the TB01 means not touching the supension and only 3 screws to get the diff out and another 3 to get it back in. Then u can carry on playing and re-build the diff at home.

Overall tho espcially on tarmac the TB02 should wipe the floor with the TB01 once setup its a good 200grams lighter and with better balance the only problem is that is can be a little skitish and light on bumps. You will also need to gear down so 7:1 becomes 6:1 as there is less mass to shift.

cheers Ryck

[thesuper]

Wrc action....you could also drill two holes thought the cover that's over the left steering arm and set two screws as limiters? you'd have the back the screws with a nut on the inside but that could be an option.

i figure i'll have better ideas about that when i get my kit.....i'm excited to get some comparative testing done.

i'm going to have the TB-01 and 02 with the same motor, esc, servo, camber and toe in settings, as well as final drives, and tires and maybe shells if we have some spares.

the great thing about the TB01 is that it's soooo durable. the things i could figure breaking easy are....hmmm.... maybe a bent axle?

one thing on the chassis tossing the drive shafts.....are you still using the urethane spacers that center the drive shaft between the axle and the outdrive? also, it's possible that the use of the TB01 rear uprights sets the axle too far from the outdrive?

could you also please post a pic of the under side of the tub so i can see how much material to remove. knowing me i'd go at it with the dremel and end up with no place to mount the gear box. although the idea of still being able to use the "stroke" screws (as tamiya calls them) is a nice idea to prevent the driveshafts from binding.

and yeah, i saw the R....lots of hop ups but way open to debris. yikes!

i think the hub carriers for the TB01 are still available....and i still need to order a second diff (don't want to end a drive due to a broken cap screw as some have experienced) the slightly longer EvoIII drive shaft that's "supposed" to prevent the bevel pinion from eating the teeth on the ring gear. nt sure if this is true but sounds interesting and the shaft isn't too expensive. and teh alu. steering set and the metal parts bag A that will allow me to build two spare diffs. but even with all that...it's a very inexpensive package.

also note that they have the peugeot 307 shells as well.....czech is not an easy language to translate.....but i'm always amazed at their fervor for rally!

i'd already read about the cap screw on the diff breaking.....thanks for that tip cause i like to drive with spares....makes me feel ok about pushing in the corners. i read that people were breaking the cap screws at the head because they put the spring on and then the thrust bearing instead of the thrust bearing and then the spring. have you had them break at the head? or do they break at the threaded end?

i think i'll have one made up as a locked diff with screws to hold things down as you did. i kinda dig the idea of a locked rear diff to help get the car sideways.....

if there's less mass to move, and i leave it as 7:1....shouldn't acceleration be better?