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[terry.sc 16]

I stand (possibly)corrected with regards to the Porsche then.

So what about the Sand scorcher body? when they brought out the Monster beetle they changed the stamp inside,or are there more subtle differences?

There are many rather unsubtle differences between the Scorcher and Monster Beetle shells. There is a very comprehensive forum posting from 2003 that I can't find right now, but the guide on Tamiya101 should go a long way to showing just how different they are http://www.tamiya101.com/article_sand_scorcher_shells.asp

If i understand your post properly,i am very dissapointed that Tamiya are rereleasing the Mounty body actually on a Hi-lift chassis.That is awfull,and a big kick in the pants for anyone with a Mountaineer.

Why? A Mountaineer is still a Mountaineer it most certainly isn't a High-Lift, Mountaineer owners haven't bought the cars purely because it is a Toyota but for the chassis that's under it. It might hurt a lot who have paid seriously over the odds for the limited release shell and must have considered the body being worth that much at the time. After all if no one had paid a fortune for them they have sold for a more sensible price.

[terry.sc 16]

never seen a "58001"... aren't they RA-1201 ?

Yep, its a RA-1201. But then apart from us old timers how many people would recognise Tamiyas old numbering system.

[DeeMiller 1]

People who are afraid the cars they own will drop in value (in terms of money) they should ask themselves: "Am I in it for the money?".

Yes, it hurts when you've payed a lot of money for it back then but nevertheless, no one forced you to buy it in the first place!

Be fair, it's your own fault, not Tamiya's.

You are warned several times before...(it started in 1986 with the Monster Beetle, remember?).

I think there is a difference between value and value.

If you want to express value in terms of money, get some gold.

If you want to express value in terms of collectablility, get the original kits/parts (may take some study and time though nowadays but that's the challenge, right?).

If you want to relive that good-old-80's feeling again, buy a re-re and drive it like someone is chasing you...sometimes it is.

Yes, a Black Porsche (NOT RA-1201 nor 58001, that's the other "regular" kit) is very collectable (in terms of "rare") so you have to think what it's worth to you...no one is going to force you to buy it.

Still, the Black Porsche is very unique for the parts are almost all different from the "regular" kit and I don't expect it to be rereleased for it's old fashion technic.

You want it? Pay up and feel a king for a few weeks or so.

But I warn you, you'll get used to it no matter what.

And, more importantly, there's nothing left to wish for...for me that is...

So no Black Porsche for me.

Grtz Dee.

PS Still, I don't like re-re's for a different reason: it's just not the "real thing" but that's very personal for everyone.

[RETRO R/C 59]

This seller has been around for a very long time; She's well known amongst the 'serious' collectors.

Interesting to see so much being offered at once... Perhaps a peak in the market?

ammmmmmmmmmm - I know this collector rather well - and HE is definately no "she".......

As I and others have stated on more than one occasion - the re-releases have relatively little effect on the value of a true original kit to a collector. This is because they are NOT original - quite obviously the reason for wanting to collect the originals in the first place is to do just that. The re-releases are great for re-living your past, introducing your children to what you loved etc etc. They are NOT collectables and should only be seen as replicas.

Either way - the Black 934 is most definately the #1 most desirable car if you are a one fo the guys that has to "have everything" original.

Cheers

Darryn

[DeeMiller 1]

Tamiya have never changed the date stamps on any of their parts unless the parts have been significantly modified.

Tamiya did changed some numbers: re-release Frog wheels (SS wheels): numbers on the tree are different, same for the body of the XR-311 (inside roof).

In fact, the other way around also works for Tamiya, they changed the re-re Tyrrell body (holes for body mounts) but left the original printing.

As you can see, with the re-re you need to know a lot more for getting the original parts in the end.

Quite a challenge, maybe it's time to get a database or something.

I agree, the re-re's don't really make a difference in value but sometimes it makes it harder to spot the original ones.

Grtz Dee.

[twisty 8]

I think what bothers me the most ,is that Tamiya are making it very easy for unfair dealers to hoodwink buyers and some so called enthusiasts think this is funny.

Basicly making fun of people because they don`t know everything is a poor show,but making large amounts of cash out of peoples lack of knowledge is just greed.

[RA1028 3]

ammmmmmmmmmm - I know this collector rather well - and HE is definately no "she".......

As I and others have stated on more than one occasion - the re-releases have relatively little effect on the value of a true original kit to a collector. This is because they are NOT original - quite obviously the reason for wanting to collect the originals in the first place is to do just that. The re-releases are great for re-living your past, introducing your children to what you loved etc etc. They are NOT collectables and should only be seen as replicas.

Either way - the Black 934 is most definately the #1 most desirable car if you are a one fo the guys that has to "have everything" original.

Cheers

Darryn

He is a member here

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/member.asp?id=49

[Hibernaculum 933]

Tamiya did changed some numbers: re-release Frog wheels (SS wheels): numbers on the tree are different, same for the body of the XR-311 (inside roof).

In fact, the other way around also works for Tamiya, they changed the re-re Tyrrell body (holes for body mounts) but left the original printing.

As you can see, with the re-re you need to know a lot more for getting the original parts in the end.

Quite a challenge, maybe it's time to get a database or something.

I agree, the re-re's don't really make a difference in value but sometimes it makes it harder to spot the original ones.

Grtz Dee.

It's an interesting topic Dee. And I wonder how much all of this matters to most collectors, or there comes a point when people should kinda 'chill out'.

I personally would draw the line at physical differences. If Tamiya change something from the original to the re-release, then I want the original. Fair enough, I figure, because the parts are actually different.

But if not and the parts are identical, how much does it matter if some tiny stamp on the parts tree has a different number to the original? It starts to descend into geekery. I know this is something collectors in all fields worry about (I used to collect records, and there are people who obsess over differences in printed serial numbers), but that doesn't make it any less crazy to a certain degree.

It's not as if the re-re part was made in China by Heng Long this time around, whilst the original was made in Japan by Tamiya. Everything - both new and old, is made in Japan by Tamiya.

Same company, same moulds, same plastic. Different year. The end.

And I'm as hardcore as they come, to the point where I've spent a lot of time getting high by sniffing re-re Padlatraks because I suspected they smelled a tiny bit different to the originals. But they look and feel identical, and I've since decided to get over it. It's like the Turing Test. If you can't reliably tell one thing from the another, are the differences really worth worrying about?

Some people might say that just knowing the year something was made, matters, and that an identical part from 1984 is worth more than one made in 2007.

I tend to disagree though, for the reasons above, but also because in some instances,so called vintage parts were first made in the mid 1980s, but were also still being made by Tamiya well into the 1990s, such as Hornet and Porsche 959 parts. If those parts are now re-released (as Hornet parts have been), the gap between production runs is not 20-25 years, but may be as little as 10-12 years.

There comes a point where it's easier to stop worrying about these issues, and get on with enjoying the toys themselves.

Just thinking out loud.

cheers,

H.

[jocktheglide 0]

ammmmmmmmmmm - I know this collector rather well - and HE is definately no "she".......

As I and others have stated on more than one occasion - the re-releases have relatively little effect on the value of a true original kit to a collector. This is because they are NOT original - quite obviously the reason for wanting to collect the originals in the first place is to do just that. The re-releases are great for re-living your past, introducing your children to what you loved etc etc. They are NOT collectables and should only be seen as replicas.

Either way - the Black 934 is most definately the #1 most desirable car if you are a one fo the guys that has to "have everything" original.

Cheers

Darryn

I wouldnt call them replicas to be honest your being kinda of harsh arent.....just because they are rerelease does not mean they are not collectables...will you be saying the same thing 10 years from now after the last re release is done and over with???? I highly doubt its like saying when the first mountainer came out that was just a re release of the original bruiser and ask yourself why should I buy it its just a replica of the bruiser itself. Then viola 10 years later putting are paying 2k for the mountainer...makes you wonder how you think of the future now.

[OCD 514]

ammmmmmmmmmm - I know this collector rather well - and HE is definately no "she".......

Darryn

Ah-hem... and the 'serious' collectors come to the rescue... ;)

I agree with Jock about the re-res and collect-ability; As with any collectible, it's mostly a matter of perception of the collector.

If Tamiya canned the rerelease program tomorrow and went back to producing only new designs, I could almost guarantee the re-res would appreciate.

@Hibernaculum: "It's not as if the re-re part was made in China by Heng Long this time around, whilst the original was made in Japan by Tamiya. Everything - both new and old, is made in Japan by Tamiya. "

What about the recent additions from the Philippines? Not even worth mentioning,eh?

-Steve

[Hibernaculum 933]

What about the recent additions from the Philippines? Not even worth mentioning,eh?

Oh yeah, they're worth mentioning Which of the vintage re-res are made in the Philippines though? My re-re Hornet, Frog and Grasshopper are from Japan, if I recall correctly. So those are the sorts of parts collections I was thinking of.

(I know the Tamtech-Gears and some Wild Willy 2s are from the Philippines, so I was only aware of certain first-release models being from there.)

cheers,

H.

[RETRO R/C 59]

Youre right - that last comment does sound harsh by iteslf. Apologies if I offended - you should have seen my original post - was like a page long!! I edited it a bit to much. Let me explain my thoughts a bit more in depth without going on too much.

What I mean is that the re-releases themselves will never be considered as "valuable" (not in money terms - but in terms of originality) to the collector who wants the original. All of the re-re's have changes made to them. The original will always be the original. As far as the re-re's being collectable, they will of course be desirable - but no where near as desirable as the ones they were originally modeled on. Note that I did not intend to say that any of the re-re's were worthless. The re-re's are "replica's" of the originals though, there is no escaping that.

Jocktheglide: As for me suggesting that it is like saying the mountaineer is like a re-re of the bruiser.....nothing like it. It is a completely different car. Like the Hornet is different to the grasshopper, the hotshot to the hotshot II.......wasnt implying anything like that at all. I think I shouild have left my original post up there - as long as it was - it explained my thoughts alot better!

Oh well - hopefully I have explained myself a little better now.

Cheers

Darryn

[Taman 3]

My Frog Re-release was made in the philippines and the motor in China The motor doesnt have that nice shine like the japaneses 540 motor. Its a dull cheap look. But still love the kit as its the first one I bought back in the 80s. Am glad they did a re-release as it gave me the chance to buy one cheap. I like it as much as my NIB R91Cp and NIB Porsche 956

[blackdogbro 0]

What's up with "so many" Black Porsches coming up recently? There are another 2 currently listed, in addition to the other 2 that came up a few weeks ago.

[Gixer Jay 0]

Well said Darryn! 100% agree! The original will always be the original.

I'm actually shocked to see two Black Porsche's com up on the Bay at once. Although, not one kit has been listed in a very long time it looks like the sellers want to take advantage of the current market value $$$$$. Definitely the most collectable and valuable Tamiya kit to date.

[DeeMiller 1]

Yup, you see that often.

When you're the first after a long period of non-availability of a certain model/car, you can get good money.

After that, more people offer theirs too and prices drop due to the new plenty-availability.

No, I don't say "cheap"...but this a good time to get a Black Porsche I think.

Grtz Dee.

[Tamiya1/10 382]

Does anyone know what the final bid was or the auction is still going?

[SDGator 0]

Final bid was I beleive 5700,- Dollar. And the reserve was 6000,- so no sale.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[ryanbored 3]

So what's the most valuble Tamiya then, auction wise?

or can anyone recal a recent auction for a sack full of money on the bay?

(let the rumours begin!! I once caught a fish thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis big etc!)

[Tamiya1/10 382]

Final bid was I beleive 5700,- Dollar. And the reserve was 6000,- so no sale.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

What condition would the plastic be after 30+- years and someone is willing to pay US$5700.00 (with the value of the US$ is only $5200 ) The person must have some coins lying around or just a bigger nut than most of the collectors out there. For 5700, one can buy a lot of "TOYS" even a 1:1 car, maybe not a porsche or the Z06 Corvette. For that kind of money here is how I would spend it, a nice digit SLR camera, new golf set, mountain bike, RC helicopter and likely still have some change left over a burger or pizza and beer.

[ryanbored 3]

I know you could buy alot for that money- but i don't understand people that buy new in box stuff then put it in the cupboard, only to then hunt for the next one....

But then how much of our hobby is rational?!

[SDGator 0]

What condition would the plastic be after 30+- years and someone is willing to pay US$5700.00 (with the value of the US$ is only $5200 ) The person must have some coins lying around or just a bigger nut than most of the collectors out there. For 5700, one can buy a lot of "TOYS" even a 1:1 car, maybe not a porsche or the Z06 Corvette. For that kind of money here is how I would spend it, a nice digit SLR camera, new golf set, mountain bike, RC helicopter and likely still have some change left over a burger or pizza and beer.

That is what I am wondering about as well. I have one old Tamiya and love it to death but If I have to buy something right now I would go for new and not some NIB from over 30 years ago.... and for 5700 dollar I would certainly buy some other toys. Like a new 934 RSR, TRF and some other new cars.