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Stefan(2)

Poor American Model Builders

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Ok, stole this from a other forum...

So under 18... no glue & paint ??? ..

There goes the next generation of model builders in the usa.. :)

Model glue law aimed at gang graffiti

Saturday, October 27, 2007 By Ryan Harris

Staff Writer

DALTON, Ga. -- Ace Hardware owner Nash Patel said he didn't notice anything suspicious about a young girl wearing a Northwest Whitfield High School shirt buying spray paint.

But after the girl left, Mr. Patel said, police officers entered the Walnut Avenue store to tell him he broke the law by selling paint to a minor and he could face fines.

"It was a set-up," he said.

Mr. Patel said he didn't know he couldn't sell spray paint to minors and that checking identification is a "hassle." But he is complying by posting signs around his store, he said.

The Dalton Police Department is using undercover teenagers to buy spray paint as part of a campaign to prevent vandalism and youth inhaling, Sgt. Chris Cooke said. He said police met with merchants to explain the law before the compliance checks began.

Mayor Ray Elrod said the crackdown primarily is aimed at curbing graffiti, which he blames on gangs. Records show vandalism reports in Dalton dropped from 496 cases a year ago to 481 this year, but Mr. Elrod said an age restriction can drive the number down still more.

"If anybody that looks under 18 has to show proof of age, then the store owner can write down their name and address and give it to the police," Mr. Elrod said.

COMING UNGLUED

Actually, the Georgia law the city cites does not specifically restrict sales of spray paint to minors. It states that model glue cannot be sold to anyone under 18.

Under the law, model glue is defined as any chemical substance containing one of up to 34 chemicals. Dalton officials said some of the chemicals listed are common in spray paints.

"The Georgia law, when it says model glue, it means more than model glue," Dalton City Attorney Jim Bisson said. "It's fairly broad."

Local attorney Terry Miller said the model glue code has been upheld in paint inhalant cases but that it is not designed as a tool against vandalism or gang activity. He said the state or city should adopt a clearer code to help the police enforcement effort and to help merchants understand the rules.

"The idea that any person, underage or an adult, can't buy paint because somebody might spray it on a wall, or spray it on a building, or do something that is vandalism, I'm not sure that is what the state statute is really aimed at," said Mr. Miller, whose firm represents several North Georgia municipalities.

Conasauga Circuit District Attorney Kermit McManus said the Georgia law is "antiquated" in its use of the term "model glue." The law passed in 1968 and the definition of model glue last was updated in 1983, records show.

Tennessee's law includes "paint" in a list of outlawed inhalants, but it does not restrict the sale of glues or paints based on age.

Mr. McManus said the Georgia law "still applies to all products containing the listed chemicals," including spray paint.

The model glue code has been beaten in court.

The Georgia Appeals Court overturned a Whitfield County case in 1999 charging Jeffrey Lynn Ledford with intentional inhalation of paint fumes.

The state submitted a paint can's contents label as evidence, showing the chemical toluene as an ingredient.

But the state appeals court ruled "the contents label is hearsay and, absent a recognized exception, cannot prove the truth of the matter."

Mr. McManus said the Dalton Police Department still can enforce the model glue law, but he said future cases will require expert testimony and laboratory testing.

"From an evidentiary standpoint, when we get one of these cases to court based on that (Ledford) case, we may have to jump through a lot more hoops than we want to, but we'll do it," he said.

A NATIONAL ISSUE

Banning spray paint to minors has been considered by several cities attempting to curb vandalism, including Cleveland, Ohio, and Spokane, Wash., according to published reports.

Chicago outlawed all spray paint sales to adults and minors in 1992 in an effort to curb vandalism. The Paints and Coating Industry reports that Chicago is the only city with a complete spray paint ban.

The trade group stated that an analysis of graffiti a year after the ban showed a modest reduction in spray paint vandalism, but an increase in glass etching and marker graffiti.

A representative in the city of Chicago's legal office didn't return calls for comment.

New York City's attempt to ban spray paint and broad-tipped marker sales to minors was blocked in February by a federal appeals court, according to The New York Times.

That newspaper reported seven high school and college students filed suit claiming New York's ban limited their First Amendment rights. The appeals court ruled that portions of the law "appear to burden substantially more free speech than is necessary."

Showing identification to buy spray paint is required in some chain stores, such as Dollar General, regardless of local laws.

Dollar General corporate spokesman Tawn Earnest said all of the store's 8,000-plus locations restrict sales to minors because "the potential misuse of this product by youth."

Tim Jones, owner of G&S Office Supply in downtown Dalton, said merchants can help curb vandalism. He said his building and trucks have been covered in spray-painted graffiti.

"If you have a kid coming in at 10 o'clock at night trying to buy 15 cans of spray paint, you know something is about to happen," Mr. Jones said.

Note to last mark, or he is painting up his latest model! :D

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Living here in Vegas, kids tag alot all over the city. Nothing new... Thanks for the read.

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In Australia, we have it too. Retailers are not allowed to sell spray paint to anyone under 18.

There is nothing about glues. To me that just sounds ridiculous. Really all that is needed to ban is pressurised spray packs.

Personally I think the whole idea of banning spray cans to try and stop graffiti is not a good one. It will not make a substantial impact while denying people from using them for all the other things apart from graffiti.

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Hmm 2 sides to the story: deny-ing kids the opertunity to buying anything that can be used for alternative purposes may be a bit nanny state, i think the world lacks one common theme: common sense!

There are plenty of regulars into my LHS, (some under 16) so should they be denied the sales of substances (paint, glue, etc?) Or tools?

It's a case of the few ruining it for the many i'm afraid- and with America leading the way on law suits, the shop owners are worried about being prosicuted.

Maybe i should sue my pub for selling beer, cos the headaches are terrible!

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Nothing new in New York City. That law has been on the books here for about 20 years.

The law here also requires anyone that sells spray paint that it be in a locking display.

Youngins need to have a parent present at the time of purchase or be over 18.

Ever since this law went into effect, the subway sure got a lot cleaner and it had a huge effect on bombing (taging)

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Guest joelvardy

It is probably a good things but..

Cigarettes are not allowed to be sold to people under 16 or is it 18 now.. but there are still thousands of underage smokers!

Making something banned dose not stop people getting it. Usually just makes the item more desirable IMHO

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Making something banned dose not stop people getting it. Usually just makes the item more desirable IMHO

So true- Looks guys- I've got 5 ASBO's!

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I can remember building model R/C airplanes in like 1981-1982, and my Pop had to purchase the CA glues for me. I had no idea why at the time and only years later realized that people were sniffing the stuff. Crazy!

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back in the 70's, don't know now, in Toronto Canada, kids need a note from parent inorder to buy airplane /CA glue from the local smoke shop. I guess kids were getting hight on that stuff. Most people back than use paint from a bottle by Pastor? and spray paint wasn't an issue.

I guess the law was meant to protect, but in the end is always the innocent party that suffers, most crimminal will find a way to get around the system. On the other hand the government has to do something, I guess is better than nothing.

In the end it boils down to education and econmic conditions.

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well here in the uk i used to run a car spares shop and i would'nt sell anything in a can to anyone under the age of 16 seeing it would be me getting the hefty fine if i was cought and its the same for my wife who works for asda (a wallmart company) they wont sell anything in a can (that could be sniffed) or games with a certain age on them well loads of stuff (to much to mention) really and i for one am in favour of it. all you have to do is tell them to get their parents to come and get it. that way you wont get done for selling something to a minor that they arnt surpose to be buying anyway.

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Chicago outlawed all spray paint sales to adults and minors in 1992 in an effort to curb vandalism. The Paints and Coating Industry reports that Chicago is the only city with a complete spray paint ban.

are they mad?!?!?! that would mean they have to paint r/c's with brushes, hmm we would all have such nice paint jobs...

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think to setup a merchant who may not have had the laws highlighted to him prior to the setup is wrong and shouldnt stand. however if the laws have been highlighted to him then he should face whatever the punishment is for breaking the laws.

cracking down on this is only a good thing in terms of how our neighbourhoods look. however if your gunna crack down on something people shouldnt be doing i think you also need to implament something they could be doing legally in its place otherwise they will just turn too something else that could be illegal. in this sort of case i'd have art gallerys in ever town but only showing local arts have something in place where spray artist can improve there skills and even get there work publicly shown legally on canvas rather then illegally on someones wall.

thou the way they approach the crack down is not targetting the entire spectrum alot of the artist are over the legal age to buy spraypaint so this is not going to effect them in anyway shape or form instead you need to target this age area with harsher punishments to crack down on the entire age spectrum of those involved.

interested topic area of concern great read :)

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It is probably a good things but..

Cigarettes are not allowed to be sold to people under 16 or is it 18 now.. but there are still thousands of underage smokers!

18 since 1st October 2007

Strange thing being there's no age limit for smoking you can smoke at any age, just can't buy them!!

It is also illegal to sell spray paint to under 18's, in fact many shops won't sell aerosol products to under 18's

Solvent abuse being the reason

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Guest joelvardy

A true carer wants there child to smoke! So the carer won't buy them for the child which means they are either sold them illegally or someone else over 18 buys them and gives they to the under 18yr old..

Same kinda concept, no carer wants there child out doing graffiti. As long as there is someone over 18 willing to go and buy the goods that have an age restriction and are willing to sell them on to underage children, it doesn't matter how many age restrictions the government put in place it will not greatly reduce the problem.

anyway that is my opinion.

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If you are going to ban it, it becomes even more attractive to kids...(no, I don't say legalize drugs :lol: )

Solvent vapour is dangerous for everyone, not only kids.

In fact, kids recover quicker...ok, still not a very good reason to inhale but still... :)

Is there a law against air brushes too?

Hairspray?

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It's stupid!

If a kid want the paint or glue for something other than what it's meant for, he/ she will just steal it. Having worked at The Home Depot, having to enter the buyers birthdate every time they buy a can paint is a PITA. Having to do this a couple times a day may not seem bad, but doing it upwards of 75-100 times a day... I had building contractors coming in every day for the stuff. Not once did I have a kid wanting some extra Krylon to tag a building.

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in australia we have a problem with some of the youths actually spraying the paint into coke bottles and sniffing it.

NEVER HEARD OF THAT.. :) But I am sure the kids here are practicing a form of it...

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I noticed at the LHS all the spray paints are locked in a glass case, while all other paint was on open display.. A young teen had to have his parents present to buy spray for his Losi shell. That is the first time I noticed the enforcement in action... I never noticed it before!

Strange that a KID can drive a car at 16 (or younger) but cannot buy spray paint :)

As Boxing Promoter Don King would say "ONLY IN AMERICA"

I hate this lock up personally because I am too busy (or impatient) sometimes to wait for a lazy/lame worker to open the case. But that is the law here and it SUCKS!!!!!

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cracking down on this is only a good thing in terms of how our neighbourhoods look. however if your gunna crack down on something people shouldnt be doing i think you also need to implament something they could be doing legally in its place otherwise they will just turn too something else that could be illegal. in this sort of case i'd have art gallerys in ever town but only showing local arts have something in place where spray artist can improve there skills and even get there work publicly shown legally on canvas rather then illegally on someones wall.

I agree completely. It annoys me when I see words like "blight" and "vandalism" used to describe graffiti, because a lot of it is really interesting and sometimes even beautiful. I certainly object less to most graffiti than to all the billboards and advertisements plastered all over every square inch of public thoroughfares.

And there are "free walls," and there are after-school programs where kids can get creative and artistic. (I even heard of a program where kids built and raced RC cars a while back.) But those programs are too few and far between. And people (not just kids) need an outlet for that energy. We've been drawing on cave walls and beating animal-skin drums for a long time now, and we're not likely to stop just because some politician with no soul left decides to ban spray paint. It's not about vandalism; it's about making something and letting the world know you were here. That's why most tags are some variation on the tagger's name. He just wants you to know he was there. The only time I really have a problem with it is when it's on private property or when they cover up traffic signs.

A deeper, more troubling side of these bans and limitations, in my opinion, is the treatment of everyone as a potential criminal for simply obtaining a product. Spray paint annoys me, but if you really want to get mad, try buying Claritin. My wife has sinus troubles, and Claritin-D is the only stuff that helps. But because it contains a chemical that is used to make methamphetamines, they keep it locked behind the counter. You not only have to show ID to buy it, but you're severely limited as to how much you can buy at a time, and the pharmacy is required to keep track of your purchases. It is practically illegal to cure the sniffles, all because a few worthless people are making drugs and accidentally blowing up their houses with an otherwise legitimate product. It's disgusting. Just let them blow themselves up; we're better off without them.

And the same thing goes for sniffing glue or paint fumes. It says right there on the can that the fumes can kill you. Do the rest of us really have to be treated like criminals because a few people are too stupid to read warnings?

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And just what is it with the population of California?

like, just about everything causes cancer there??! what's wrong with those dudes & dudettes living there...

Arnie looks pretty tuff anyways. :)

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And just what is it with the population of California?

Don't ask me; I'm a transplant. And I'm leaving as soon as possible. :)

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And just what is it with the population of California?

like, just about everything causes cancer there??! what's wrong with those dudes & dudettes living there...

Arnie looks pretty tuff anyways. :D

Hey I like the term "dudettes" Arnie is loosing mass but for still pretty fit.

I think this world is in pretty bad shape, is all the process food we eat, all the growth hormones and anti-biotic used in the animals and fish we eat. Seating at the top of the food chain will do some damage to us. And seems like more women have breast cancer, more kids have ADHD or Autism :( . I am sure there are other factors but will be difficult to point to any specifics.

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