Is Is Right To Make Repro And Novelty Items?

[sykdevil]

I was just curious what are people's views on repro decals, parts, and novelty items such as mugs/tshirts printed using tamiya box art. I've seen a lot of repro stuff and to be honest I'm all for it! Maybe because I'm a vintage tamiya fan, but are there any legal issues invovled using box art images and other tamiya related stuff.

[WillyChang]

yep, all blatant infringement of copyright & intellectual property

[ryanbored]

yep, all blatant infringement of copyright & intellectual property

Ditto. But I do love it, Tamiya need to milk their brand a little more merchandise wise.

[Tamiya1/10]

yep, all blatant infringement of copyright & intellectual property

I am sure if some one pumps out 10,000 or 50,000 decals or parts or mugs using Tamiya brand or box art, Tamiya legal councils will be in action. But reproduction at a few dozen in volume by Tamiya fans and not for profit is actualy good for Tamiya hence need not to take any legal action.

Everyone is happy.

[WillyChang]

I am sure if some one pumps out 10,000 or 50,000 decals or parts or mugs using Tamiya brand or box art, Tamiya legal councils will be in action. But reproduction at a few dozen in volume by Tamiya fans and not for profit is actualy good for Tamiya hence need not to take any legal action. Everyone is happy.

that's a bit like saying stealing $2 from the till is ok but embezzelling $2M from the company is bad

stealing is still stealing dude, doesn't matter the magnitude

otoh... if you follow the IP legal eagles to the strict letter, you can't even legally draw a Chevy bowtie shape

and attach it onto your legitimate Chevrolet vehicle even if its deemed non-detrimental to the brandname.

One needs to obtain permission before reproducing registered trademarks.

[94eg!]

In the end, it's all up to the person/company that the trademark belongs to. If they don't want people reproducing their stuff, they will take action. We won't know if companies like Tamiya or Kyosho take offense to this kind of plagiarism until they release some sort of official statement...

About 2 years ago there was a big law suite in the US against companies producing calenders with photos of trains in them. The railroads complained about copyright infringement due to the reproduction of trademarks and use of image. They won in court. Now the calender companies must pay licensing fees & royalties to sell those types of calenders. Even the model railroad companies now must pay royalties to produce scale trains...

I don't know if you guys noticed, but all Tamiya scale models with the Acura brand name on them now have a new label that says "official licensed product". That means the same thing. Acura told Tamiya to cough up some money for using their image. I haven't seen these stickers on any other car brand that Tamiya makes. Also, I don't know if this extends beyond US sales...

[Tamiya1/10]

that's a bit like saying stealing $2 from the till is ok but embezzelling $2M from the company is bad

stealing is still stealing dude, doesn't matter the magnitude

otoh... if you follow the IP legal eagles to the strict letter, you can't even legally draw a Chevy bowtie shape

and attach it onto your legitimate Chevrolet vehicle even if its deemed non-detrimental to the brandname.

One needs to obtain permission before reproducing registered trademarks.

Never said is OK to steal unless you are Robin Hood. But dude, life is not black and white. I don't think you will get very upset or have the person arrested if he took a penny from you but I won't say what will happen if someone took / steal $2000 from you. Sure you can say the law is the law but the law should be applied with discretion and sound judgement. ie Substantially all Police will let you off going 45 at a 40 zone but going 65 at a 40 zone not likely so is like your $2 vs $2M

In the end I don't think anyone suffered any lost else Tamiya would have issued legal notices to TC or individuals. I think Tamiya understands is coming from the fans and not intended to have any finanical gains or the total gain is so small just not worh the legal costs.

I think if you are smart enough to steel $2M or $2B you probably can get away with it as you will be considered a genius. On the other hand you steal $2 or $200 you get full force of the law. The law works in funny ways at times.

[ryanbored]

I think you'll find copywrite and trademarks are on all Tamiya licenced products.

My F150 High lift has "official Ford Licenced Product" printed on the bottom of every page of the instruction manual!

Also a stamp on the shells of the cosworths i have, and pretty sure on the brat too.

[WillyChang]

Every single Ferrari item now carries a serial # on a hologram sticker

after Barbie (aka Mattel) took on Ferrari's toy mechandising rights.

btw original Q was "are there any legal issues invovled using box art images and other tamiya related stuff"

pretty clear cut

if you're in the US... there's probably a lawyer chasing your ambulance right now asking

Tamiya if he can sue showroom posters for taking pictures of Tamiya's model cars & boxes

I think if you are smart enough to steel $2M or $2B you probably can get away with it as you will be considered a genius. On the other hand you steal $2 or $200 you get full force of the law. The law works in funny ways at times.

nah, methink if you had 2 billion bux - you would hire a BETTER lawyer/barrister/judge

[dinodog]

Hi Guys, hmm.... copyright law, allegedly if you infringe copyright law and get caught the first thing you will receive in the UK at least is called a "TEST PURCHASE NOTICE". One item is enough, at least one "NON EXHAUSTIVE EXAMPLE" will be bought by private investigators and held as material evidence against you. There will be a paragraph from the manufacturers solicitors/Lawyers quoting the "DELIVERY UP" UK law. ALL Hard drives and all equipment, software etc., wholesalers, buyers, business records your women and their children etc etc etc.......will be demanded within 10 days. If you can't defend primary or secondary involvement by proving "EXCEPTION RATHER THAN THE RULE" You will be dragged through the courts until you can't pay your lawyers anymore and then you will disappear! Oh yes nearly forgot the best bit, the Criminal procedings will then start.

Unless you have made enough wonga/$ from your venture into the exciting world of easy money to pay everything off and/or get out of jail, whichever the case may be , you will be required to sign a statement declaring that you will never ever sell the product again on this earth or the next.....

Most private investigators don't make their money from unfaithful husbands or wives but copyright infringement cases. All of the above is to the best of my knowledge believed to be true because a friend of a man in the Pub told me, apparently. Heresay I!

Just off to check some EBAY id's. Joking!

[Hibernaculum]

I was just curious what are people's views on repro decals, parts, and novelty items such as mugs/tshirts printed using tamiya box art. I've seen a lot of repro stuff and to be honest I'm all for it!

Regarding the first question (general views on repro parts)...

Repro parts are great for anyone who wants to fix up their buggy cheaply and isn't worried about having 100% original parts. They make restoration/repair much more affordable for a lot of people.

For a lot of collectors however, there's no substitute for genuine parts. It wouldn't matter if the repros looked 100% identical - many people would still want the genuine Tamiya version.

On a related note, the repro market only seems to have emerged for the most part in the last few years as the cost of certain genuine parts has soared. As I don't buy repro stuff, this can mean sometimes wading through lots of repro items on eBay, trying to find genuine items. So personally, there is a slight downside in that, if you only want original parts, there is slightly more 'noise' to filter out on ebay. I sometimes wonder if this could be a little challenging for inexperienced new collectors who don't imagine that repro parts exist. I also sometimes wonder if genuine parts supply will eventually dwindle to nothing and be swamped by repro listings. There is only a finite supply of course, and things have changed quite a bit in the past 6-7 years.

(Sorry if I just increased the share price of genuine parts with these comments

cheers,

H.

[PSXBatou]

On a related note, the repro market only seems to have emerged for the most part in the last few years as the cost of certain genuine parts has soared. As I don't buy repro stuff, this can mean sometimes wading through lots of repro items on eBay, trying to find genuine items. So personally, there is a slight downside in that, if you only want original parts, there is slightly more 'noise' to filter out on ebay. I sometimes wonder if this could be a little challenging for inexperienced new collectors who don't imagine that repro parts exist. I also sometimes wonder if genuine parts supply will eventually dwindle to nothing and be swamped by repro listings. There is only a finite supply of course, and things have changed quite a bit in the past 6-7 years.

(Sorry if I just increased the share price of genuine parts with these comments

cheers,

H.

I have to agree here, do a search for TT-01 parts on ebay and you will wade through tons of 3rd party reproduced parts. Mainly from China *big shock* since they are the biggest IP infringer on the planet. When I built up my TT-01 I wanted genuine Tamiya parts, at times it was a royal pain to find them. Heck to be honest when I build anything Tamiya I use genuine parts. At times i get a bit freaked when ordering even official products from ebay, I tend to inspect them (& validate their authenticity) more carefullly than say if i order from Tower Hobbies.

[WillyChang]

imho 3rd party "compatible" parts are fair game, not possible to raise a case for

copyright if the parts are obviously different & not marketed as originals.

Heck, even Apple can't kill off iPod accessory makers - it'll love to, i can tell ya.

But some 1:1 manufacturers are trying to copyright their headlight & panel assemblies

to make it illegal for others to make alternative-source replacement items.

How successful are they... well, the printer cartridge market should show its futility.

[markbt73]

Keep in mind that there is a big difference between copyright (which applies to a published work) and trademark (which applies to a symbol). A copyright is automatic; a trademark needs to be applied for, and defended, or it falls into the public domain.

Reproducing the box art in any form is copyright infringement, but making decals that have a red square and a blue square with white stars on them is trademark infringement. If Tamiya doesn't have a problem with the latter, you're in the clear.

The parts of the vehicle themslves are copyrighted (look closely at the parts runners and you'll see the symbol), but most manufacturers will allow other companies to make parts that fit but are not an exact duplicate. They'd be stupid not to.

This is a relatively new thing in the RC world, but it has been going on in hot rod circles for years. It is possible to build a "Chevrolet" engine with no GM parts in it at all, and if it were not, the interest in Chevy engines would plummet. Prices for parts would skyrocket, because you'd either have to get them from the OEM, or find new-old stock. What would happen? Vehicles would break down, owners would not be able to afford to repair them, and enthusiasts would stay away in droves. GM would be shooting themsleves in the foot, and generating a storm of ill will that would likely cost them new vehicle sales.

Now, look twenty years down the road. Your kid/grandkid/niece/nephew is eyeballing the shelf of RC cars in your study. You decide to build him a Sand Scorcher from parts, as a project you can do together. The last original Scorcher you saw sold for $15k, and even it wasn't perfect, but you remember that companies used to make repro parts, and you can get most of what you need that way. You put together a running, sharp-looking "Sand Scorcher" from bits and pieces, and the kid is delighted.

Now, the other side of this is, if a company does start going after the little guys for casual copyright and trademark infringement, they deserve to lose our business. No matter who they are.

[WillyChang]

Copyright also expires after so-many yrs after publication...?

Trademarks & patents need to be registered in very country too,

otherwise its unenforceable in the country where its not registered.

[dinodog]

Hi Guys, allegedly, it's all good! Where would we be without "Pattern Parts"! But the real trouble starts when an infringing item is sold as a genuine one. If you happen to pick up such an item up in a foriegn market say, believing it was genuine, London lads like me call them "snides", and then sell it on ebay as real, with no paper trail back to the seller you will be in a world of secondary involvement pooh! Even with "exception rather than the rule" defence it will be expensive as the costs of the action will be "bear your own". Unless you own nothing of value, like a house, you will not get Legal Aid and will have to bear you own costs, do you know how much your lawyer earns for just one hour? You could buy a new Tamiya outfit with radio and hop ups! "Where did you get it from?" will be the main concern for the copyright holder. You will say "But I bought it a market abroad." "Yeah right!" will be the reply. Usually, in most court cases the attitude is " You brought here me you prove it!" But this won't do you any good with copyright law!! Apparently! Just stick the rivers and waterfalls you know might be a good idea! Good luck!

Any brits reading this will be excluded from knowing or even mentioning the identity of the Blackmailed Royal, I don't know the real identity, but a paparazzi in the pub told me.... Private emails only!.....