If Tamiya Re-released The Sand Scorcher

[monster_beetle]

Well, I can tell you a little secret. And that is that there will maybe come a sand scorcher rerelease, fully cnc machined. Not made by tamiya, but by me, I'm busy with drawing the parts. But it will take a long time to realise it

[Origineelreclamebord]

Won't happen.

Ever :-)

I agree. The chance that they will re-release the scorcher is very small, because I think it will cost them too much to use all metal parts, and you will get too close to the prices of a hilux, and if they replace it for plastic parts, the scorcher/srb feel is gone...

It is more likely that they would re-release the Sand Rover or the holiday buggy...

[loaded]

I hope they re release the Holiday Buggy and Sand Rover, unfortunately they don't hold much appeal for people outside TC and were flawed terribly with the chassis front struts (hey I love them, but this was a big issue)

Maybe they could reissue with a two piece chassis to enable easier repair/replacement?

Just a thought.

Paul.

[Origineelreclamebord]

I am not a huge fan of the holiday buggy. Maybe that is because I haven't driven one, It looks like an SRB-frog crossover chassis, and if you look for example to the front suspension arms, it looks a bit unrefined, cheaply designed... And that doesn't appeal many people, unless you're a die-hard fan of tamiya, or look at the sand rover in another way...

But the more I see it, the more I like it (When I saw pictures of an SS for the first time, I didn't like it, and I never thought I was going to own one like I do now)...

I think that if they re-release something next, it will be the Audi Quattro/Ascona chassis, the XC, or maybe the chassis of the stadium blitzer and blitzer beetle... And as I said earlier, not the scorcher...

[Badboy]

Well, I can tell you a little secret. And that is that there will maybe come a sand scorcher rerelease, fully cnc machined. Not made by tamiya, but by me, I'm busy with drawing the parts. But it will take a long time to realise it

Put me for one!!!

Badboy

[53HRA]

i would pay around 150-250

[twisty]

Glad you got the TTG Buggy Champ Paul,you should seriously think about one of the lower (5800)or mid (6400)KV Castle creations baby mamba brushless set ups for it,add the bling later if you like, i hope you are enjoying it.

With regards to your 3 ? NIB Sand Scorcher kits,like you said if they do re-re it(i honestly do not think Tamiya would)that would hurt the pocket badly,i think you should build one, keep one NIB for future generations and sell one so that someone else has to make the tough decisions of to build,break or save

[HunterZero]

I currently would not be inclined to say 'never ever going to happen' to a re-re of any Tamiya kit, with the exception of the original 3-speeds.

Heck, we even had the XR-311 and Tyrrell 6-wheeler re-released, how random is that?

On the SRBs, I don't buy the whole 'too expensive to produce' thing, and the licensing issue doesn't wash with me either since Tamiya re-released the Beetle on the M04. And I'm sure Tamiya pay a pretty penny to Ferrari for all the officially licensed Ferrari kits they sell...

I would say that if it was re-released, it would be retail US$300-$400, or around the US$200-$250 mark from HK sellers (after a short-term price hike to gouge early impulse buyers). Or, more likely, it will be a limited anniversary item with fancy packaging, similar to the 934 Porsche, with higher price tag around $500 mark.

I personally think there's less chance of seeing an Avante re-release. I think that we have even less chance of seeing the original 3-speed chassis. I am certain the chance of the original 3-speeders coming back is zero. The Hi-Lift series is effectively the 3-speed re-re.

It would be interesting if Tamiya were to publish a 'reserved' list of kits that they promise to never re-issue, but at the end of the day, Tamiya reserve the right to re-issue any kit on their inventory if they like, and think it will sell.

I am not Japanese, so have no concept of whether or not Tamiya would regard re-releasing a prestigious collector's item like the Sand Scorcher as a loss of prestige. I don't know if it matters to them what collectors would think of them as a company if they re-released the Scorcher. I imagine it would to a certain extent, but would not be a deal breaker, especially if the item was a limited re-release.

All I know is, there's definitely a market for them. I'd buy two. Or more. We may get the Super Champ, with CFRP chassis and improved FFPDS. We may get an SRB chassis, with another original baja inspired bodyshell. But I definitely think that an SRB is a decent possibility of reappearing as a limited kit item.

I do think that we'll see re-issue kits trickling out, maybe 1-2 per year for the forseeable future. I would be very surprised if we didn't see these again:

Fox (has to be a top candidate)

Porsche 959 (or Celica Gr. (also a top candidate)

Wild One/FAV

Vanquish

Astute (or Super Astute)

Monster Beetle

Boomerang/Super Sabre

TA-01/TA-02 'Classic' touring cars

Egress (instead of an Avante re-re)

Dyna Storm (the first re-re-re?)

B2B Sidecar (now that would be a left-field re-re!)

Terra Scorcher

As well as more bodyshell on new chassis re-releases, like the Lancia 037... Porsche 956, Toyota Toms, VW Golf Racing, Audi Quattro, Ford F-150...

Or... not. Tamiya may have decided that the re-issues have run their day, and concentrate on more new cool stuff.

- Jim

[loaded]

HunterZero makes some interesting points, but I must say a Porsche 959 re release is in the never happen camp, for technical, licencing and other reasons. Firstly, Porsche and Tamiya fell out over this and the mould (which was flawed anyway) was destroyed. Tamiya have never been allowed to use the badge ever since (just look at the boxes!) The Mabuchi Technigold would be difficult to re issue and there were a bunch of other problems, including cost of manufacture, scale issues etc, which makes this a collectors only piece, IMHO. I actually think the Sand Scorcher is more likely (than a 959, still don't think it will happen though). I am beginning to agree with the thought that actually cost wise a metal kit wouldn't be that hard to re release, but you have to realise what is the actual demand for this, outside us cliquey TC members? Not much, I reckon, as Tamiya are having trouble cutting it (with their modern models) in a Savage Emaxx world out there, where most 'consumers' don't understand the hobby, don't 'get' vintage collecting nor appreciate prestige of nice old models from their childhood. I reckon most of these consumers weren't even born when the Scorcher was released!

The Scorcher bodyshell is another that was destroyed, this time in order to produce the Monster Beetle.

I am not worried about the re release if it does happen, however as I am convinced people will still want the originals, as Tamiya re releases rarely capture the original feel of the boxes (size, blisters, originality etc) for the real collectors. Still reckon it won't happen though ;-)

Twisty, I am not exactly proud or otherwise to admit it, twisty, but I have 5 Scorchers (NIB) now in total across my two disparate collections and 20 SRBs (NIB) in total (if we are to believe the Super Champ is an SRB, as per previous threads!) and have no plans to start dumping stock. I have built examples and runners of all of them also. I am slowly building a few more, which hammers the values, but hey, I am not actually all that bothered about the values. I like all aspects of this hobby, collecting rareity, building models, running them etc.

Paul.

[Kokuzu]

Very interesting discussions and views....

I like re-releases but I do not go for them (or just because I was tricked in ebay - this way I 'found' an orgininal Tyrell; what a sh...)

I prefer the first originals:

- The mechanical weaknesses are the thrill for me to get a hand around - making the chassis stronger to stand more powerful engines...

- I travel into history when building or re-working an old used model to the status of a brand new functioning model....

A rerelease for the Scorcher - as some have mentioned in other discussions before - would be the Olymp of RC modelling - in terms of metal parts (turned and casted) and cost.... And as such it does not justify the production - it will never pay off for Mr. Tamiya.

It was just a too unique design which can never be copied good enough using todays standard design of the front or rear axles of all existing kits....

After all, I think I would invest a lot into a true remake of the old kit. These are my features I would expect from such a diamond kit:

1. automatic 2 speed gearbox (adjustable gear ratios)
   
2. Brushless motor
   
3. forward, brake and reverse brushless ESC
   
4. Original front and rear suspension design
   
5. Adjustable coil over spring/damper combis front and rear
   
6. Slipper clutch
   
7. Ball differential
   
8. Ball bearings all around
   
9. Two wheel sets (sand = paddle, street = radial)
   
10. Two rims sets (plastic = race, aluminum = shelf)
    
11. ABS Body
    
12. Hello Techracing: a 4WD coversion set please!
    
13. Detailed boxer engine cover to cover the rear axle and gearbox
    
14. SFU (Scorcher Function Unit) = Light-, Motor / Horn sound (Turbo charged boxer engine 2,2 ltr)
    
15. detailed interieur with driver
    

Expected price level: close to 1000 EUR

...collector madness.....

[Origineelreclamebord]

Well, I can tell you a little secret. And that is that there will maybe come a sand scorcher rerelease, fully cnc machined. Not made by tamiya, but by me, I'm busy with drawing the parts. But it will take a long time to realise it

If you finish it, how much would your re-re cost? And you could also email tamiya that you've got a re-re, and you could sell your design...

And Loaded, you're right about that. Many people are more interested in modern technology, Nitro powered stuff, it needs to be fast, big, heavy and it has to look exotic in terms of materials. But beside all of that, the last few years everything needs to be retro. The cars need to be retro (which is a synonym to me for putting ugly chrome on an ugly car and say it looks like the 60's), fashion and furniture needs to be retro (let's go back to the 70's and 80's and put brown flowers on our curtains and coloured stripes on our shirts) and so on. This means that somehow, maybe those retro RC cars are cool. So maybe vintage is also cool. A very good reason for tamiya to re-release all their older cars. And the more old cars they re-release, the more attention it gets, the more interest there comes in old rc cars. And despite that and the fact there is no scorcher like RC car on the market right now, I think they won't re-release it.

I don't say that vintage and retro are the same, because they are not. The tamtech Gear Frog and Rough rider, those are retro. It looks like those old RC cars from the 80's, but they look modern somehow too, and even the chassis is modern. And then still, I don't think the tamtech gear rough rider and scorcher sell that well... Or no-one dares to post it in their showroom...

And I forgot to mention... I heard that the re-releases do have slight improvements on the weaknesses of the original? In that case it would mean that if they re-release the sand scorcher, they could be improving a lot of things right...:

- I heard many people about the fact that the rear axles, axles in the front struts etc are soft metal, and it bends so quick. (Which it did when I bent it straight again )

- The original dampers are often replaced because they leak so much. So tamiya could re-release it with modern damper/spring sets, or put modern dampers on.

- The original chassis plate was too flexible, which made your body break down.

- They have to redo the gearbox. Every RC car that comes out now, is very balanced. That would mean that some people want a differential on a scorcher. And that would for me ruin a part of it's beauty and originality. Also, they will have to redesign the motor mounts for a modern motor.

They could be making the wrong decisions if they want to improve it. To me, the imperfections make it the car that I like.

[hedge]

Re-Re the Sand Scorcher would be a good day for the people who hold them in such high regard. However I wonder what Tamiya needs to do today to ignite the passion in todays youth in the way the 30+ generation had when they saw the likes of the Sand Scorcher. Personally I would leave the past exactly where it is and concentrate on building the hobbies future today.

We have re-re music in the UK, all the old bands getting back together again and what for??? Lets go forward not backward.

Paul

[Mad Ax]

Just my tuppence worth:

If Tamiya were to re-re the Scorcher, then it would be expensive. Maybe $5-600? Or more? At that price it would mostly appeal only to collectors. How much of the market do collectors make? Not a big part, really. What regular RC enthusiast or newbie is going to be attracted to a model that costs twice as much as other 2wd buggies, but doesn't have the performance to match?

I also agree that a complete re-re would ruin some of the mystery of the original. I don't hold with collectors getting upset over plumetting values because that is a risk of collecting anything, but I do understand Hybernaculum's point of lost mystery. Plus, at $500, it's out of my budget for one single purchase - so I'll be losing the mystery of the original, AND not getting a re-re to play with.

HOWEVER - I think that a modern interpretation of the Scorcher would be a really good seller. Something of a similar technology level to the DT02MS - full plastic but with oil shocks, differential, well-balanced chassis, but with higher ground clearance, scale-looking wheels, and suspension design to ape the 1:1 Baja. And of course - plenty of avenues for hop-ups, like graphite chassis, metal parts, etc. I'm certainly not thinking just plonk a Baja shell on a DT02, because that would suck - the suspension needs to look right, and the track needs to be correct for the 1:10 shell; modern buggies are too wide.

There are plenty of Beetle-type shells on the market today so I don't think it would be an issue for Tamiya to produce something in a similar vein to the original.

If they went down this route then it need not be more expensive than a DT02MS, especially after the initial rush. I'm sure it would sell really well because of its good scale looks; at least as well as other DT02 models.

IIRC, the original Scorcher was based on a 1:1 fibreglass body licenced not by VW but by a fibreglass company. I don't know if this company still exists or who owns the licences now, but I'm sure that something could be made.

Say what you like about the TTG series, I personally am not interested. I like 1:10; it's as simple as that. I like something big enough to pick up and enjoy, and as much fun as the TTGs are on smoother surfaces, they're just not the same to me.

[Origineelreclamebord]

So you say that they might come with a Sand Scorcher Mk.II, like the Avante (Mk.I) and the Mk.II? That is possible... But I personally don't like the Avante Mk.II, since they just used a chassis that is an improved version of a previous one (the DF02), and because of that the chassis is not even close to the same, and the looks aren't either...

If they would make a Sand Scorcher Mk.II, they would have to be more careful with chassis modifications, I think. For example keeping the same shock towers, but now reinforced, and shock braces for even more strength as hop-up parts. Keeping a similar gearbox, and maybe also a modern radiobox kind of thing with the kit. The silicon sealant to make everything watertight, like the original.

And what they could improve for example, is the amount that the front, and especially the rear arms can make, so it can cope with larger jumps. A stronger chassis plate, or perhaps replace the single plate by a double. Or even better, integrate the radiobox into the chassis plate. This way you have a strong and non-flexing radio tub as a connection between the front and rear end, you save weight, and you have your precious electronics fit into a watertight space.

Now I thought about this for about 15-20 minutes, that doesn't sound like a bad idea (although, as I said earlier, they have to be careful with what they modify and keep the same).

[reenmachine]

However I wonder what Tamiya needs to do today to ignite the passion in todays youth in the way the 30+ generation had when they saw the likes of the Sand Scorcher.

Simple -- buy out and dissolve all of the video game companies.

[bgruen]

If they were to license the name from VW then you can bet they would have to sell a lot of them...

If I were Tamiya I would start out by designing the SRB II chassis, which should have all of the same dimensions and body mounting points. The front would be very similar to the original, only made out of nylon based plastics with aluminum upgrades possible. The rear I would do differently altogether:

To make it more practical I would take the gears out of one of their current production cars and make a plastic gearbox that mounts the motor up high, like the original. Instead of the rear swing arm / torsion bar setup I would do an angled trailing arm setup like the A&L kit for the vintage RC10 or the Cox / Kyosho Scorpion. This actually follows VW's evolution of the Bug to the Super Beetle. These components should be bolted to a chassis plate, not a plastic tub!!!. Finally, all the electronics must be waterproof, and the advertising campaign should have the bug at the beach, playing in the water.

Here is a SCollins Scorcher with the A&L rear suspension:

If the design were done properly it should be easy to deliver all the SRB models, but the Scorcher would probably be the only real seller...

Bob

[bakaguyjean]

Mo3 beetle has been sat on the shelf for a little while at my LHS... (if you're interested?)

Your LHS isn t the only one with M04 Beetles setting around.

[bakaguyjean]

well, apparently tamiya never actually produced the scorchers metal parts, they were made off site by another company.

All of the Kyosho stuff is made off site allways has. So it should not be a problem for Tamiya. Kyosho has a Monster style Beetle in thier Mini-z line,this came out a year ago so Tamiya did have thier chance to sell a Beetle of some kind here in Japan for a long time. So the whole lienceing thing shouldnt be an issue.

[mongoose1983]

Well, I understand that the experience of building a new-fresh Tamiya out of its box is something that just can't be explained with words. And, instead of a new Scorcher, I guess I'd go for a torn box and a beaten chassis -the real vintage thing. I have never had a metal kits by Tamiya. I have a Black Foot, a Pumpkin, a Saint Dragon (stupid name for a buggy, that it is) and a Monster Beetle on its way to me. But, to be sincere, since I'll never have $$ enough for a Bruiser, I'm thinking in finding me a Clodbuster, but it's got to be the old one. I mean, I can just go out and walk three blocks from here and charge my card with the Super Clod Buster, but I don't know... it is just NOT the same. I'm particularly turned off by anything re-released.

My two cents,

EB

--

[markbt73]

Well, I can tell you a little secret. And that is that there will maybe come a sand scorcher rerelease, fully cnc machined. Not made by tamiya, but by me, I'm busy with drawing the parts. But it will take a long time to realise it

You know, thinking about it, this is what I expect the fate of the Sand Scorcher to be, more people doing things like this. Eventually the supply of originals will dry up, and people will start making/selling their own parts for it (as has already started happening) and nearly every "Sand Scorcher" you see will be made of reproduction parts, because only the very wealthy will be able to afford original parts, even when they can be found.

For a parallel in the real-car world, how often do you see a real live AC Cobra? Never. But you see "Cobra" kit cars and reproductions at every car show. I love seeing all the Hornet and Frog chassis "Scorcher-type things" that pop up in showrooms. Why not? Can't/won't pay for the real thing? Make your own. When the body on my Grasshopper gets thrashed, that's what I'll probably do.

For the record, I never had an SRB, but I did have an AYK Baja Bison (same idea, but way cooler) that I'd kill to have back again. I traded it for a Kyosho Raider (I know, I know!) because it was heavy and slow.

[HunterZero]

So you say that they might come with a Sand Scorcher Mk.II, like the Avante (Mk.I) and the Mk.II? That is possible...

I think you'll find they already did that - Blitzer Beetle.

And on the 959 re-release - I think it's entirely possible. The TTGs show that the slightly smaller scale can be popular. It could come with a modern mildly tuned motor, such as a Dirt Tuned or GT Tuned, instead of the Technigold, and a revised motor mount to suit. Plus with all their experience in lexan bodies, I am sure they could do a new, improved mould for the 959 shell. Possibly reinforce the suspension arms a bit, and call it a re-re.

- Jim